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Vow And Declare
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Jamal View Drop Down
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Originally posted by speedingaway speedingaway wrote:

It's not an exemption race, but if you win it does allow you to pass the balloting conditions, even though it is less than 2300m. This and the Cox Plate are the only races that do this under that distance I believe.

Go and find me where it says the Turnbull Stakes is not an exception race for the Caulfield Cup? I've got the Caulfield Cuo conditions in front of me and it says:

EXEMPT RACES The winners of the 2021: 
? Underwood Stakes 
? Naturalism Stakes 
? Turnbull Stakes 
? Herbert Power Stakes 
? The Might and Power 
? Mornington Cup 
? Coongy Handicap 
? Sheema Classic (UAE) 
? Jockey Club Stakes (UK) 
? Champions and Chater Cup (HK) 
? Meguro Kinen (JPN) 
? Grand Prix de Chantilly (FR) 
? Hardwicke Stakes (UK) 
? Princess of Wales’s Stakes (UK)

Shall not be eliminated from the 2021 Caulfield Cup, provided that in the case of a dead-heat for 
first, the Committee may exercise its absolute discretion as to which horse or horses involved in the 
dead-heat shall be exempt from elimination. 

PENALTIES 
The winner, after declaration of weights, of any internationally recognised Listed handicap, Group 
handicap or Graded handicap race run over a distance of 1600 metres or further (2021 Herbert 
Power Stakes and Coongy Handicap excepted) is to carry such additional weight (if any) for each win 
as the Handicapper shall determine. 
Provided that, in lieu of re-handicapping, should such winner be a horse on the minimum handicap 
weight (for its age group) the Handicapper may, at his discretion, instead amend the originally 
appended weight figure against the benchmark weight downwards, to a figure that is not less than 
or equal to the appended weight figure for a horse of the same age and gender handicapped above the advertised minimum weight (for its age group).

Any such amendments referred to above shall not affect the weight to be carried in the race. In 
these circumstances, any extra weight to be imposed on any horse, or in lieu of re-handicapping, any 
amendment to the appended weight figure against the benchmark weight for a horse shall be 
declared by the Handicapper not later than five (5) working days after such win.

I am more then happy to email you both the Caulfield Cup and Melbourne Cuo conditions. 
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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speedingaway View Drop Down
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I'm talking about the Melbourne Cup cobber 
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Jamal View Drop Down
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Originally posted by speedingaway speedingaway wrote:

I'm talking about the Melbourne Cup cobber 

Do you still want ballot conditions?
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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speedingaway View Drop Down
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I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but winning the Turnbull allows you to pass the ballot of the Melbourne Cup. 
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## I've hidden about a dozen posts in this thread and a few of you are walking a fine line towards a holiday. Quit insulting and abusing each other, the rest of us are sick of the childishness.
www.snowshoecats.webs.com
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On Vow and Declare, hopefully he regains full fitness and if he were mine, he'd have one or two runs into the Adelaide Cup then from there Sydney and Brisbane Cups, races like the Chairman's in Sydney and the Premier's Cup in Brisbane are available if he needs some runs to tick over.

Run the poor horse in suitable races.
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Jamal View Drop Down
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I agree Afros
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Vow And Declare - Suffered a small tendon tear and is undergoing rehab for a return in the spring.
Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing
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They should send him to Europe for a jumping career.
reductio ad absurdum
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Nothing like pursuing a jumping career for relative peanuts in the UK after suffering a torn tendon and lacking ability on rain affected tracks.
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So no one has heard of retirement?

We all said he was a throwback to an old style cup winner and guess what, he is because the owners are racing him in lower grade races as his career continues.
Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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Originally posted by Second Chance Second Chance wrote:

Nothing like pursuing a jumping career for relative peanuts in the UK after suffering a torn tendon and lacking ability on rain affected tracks.





OK, Go jumping in Australia where the prize money is nowhere near what he would be racing for in UK and Irish jumps races.

He has a very limited future on the flat in Australia.

He can kick off in a maiden race if going hurdling.
reductio ad absurdum
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Originally posted by VOYAGER VOYAGER wrote:

So no one has heard of retirement?

We all said he was a throwback to an old style cup winner and guess what, he is because the owners are racing him in lower grade races as his career continues.


I couldn't agree more Clap A Melb. Cup winner of nearly 7 million, hasn't won for nearly 3 years, last placed over 2 years ago  & with openly admitted, serious soundness issues Disapprove
Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

They should send him to Europe for a jumping career.

What's this obsession of yours with every horse having to go to Europe? Vow And Declare simply wouldn't be good enough for Europe....on the flat or as a jumper. It's a different level over there or do you fail to recognise this? 
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Jamal View Drop Down
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Originally posted by VOYAGER VOYAGER wrote:

So no one has heard of retirement?

We all said he was a throwback to an old style cup winner and guess what, he is because the owners are racing him in lower grade races as his career continues.

Correct - Vow And Declare is an old fashioned Melbourne Cup winner, a handicapper/handicap stayer. Won the 2019 Melbourne Cup with 52kg. That means future staying races in Australia meant he would be carrying big weights, such is the landscape for most staying races in Australia being handicap races. Plus he isnt up to it at WFA either. Djebel is right to a certain extent - Vow And Declare's opportunities are limited in Australia for the reasons i said above but he isnt good enough to run in Europe. 

Might be best to just retire him. He has done his job, he is a Melbourne Cup winner - a Group 1 winner and he will always be remembered for that.
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Originally posted by Shawy38 Shawy38 wrote:

Vow And Declare - Suffered a small tendon tear and is undergoing rehab for a return in the spring.


Unsure why they would be looking to continue racing this horse. By all means rehab him but do it for a future in the paddock. The horse is waaaaaaaaaaaay past his best and is never going to return to anything remotely like his Melbourne Cup win. Time to pull the pin. 
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I agree, hopefully common sense prevails.
Heā€™s a lovely looking horse, would make a great dressage pony 
Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing
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Jamal View Drop Down
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Yep I agree, its time Vow And Declare was retired. Nothing really more to prove. He'll always be remembered as a Melbourne Cup winner and an Australian-bred Melbourne Cup winner as well which is rare in recent times.
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Originally posted by Gay3 Gay3 wrote:

Originally posted by VOYAGER VOYAGER wrote:

So no one has heard of retirement?

We all said he was a throwback to an old style cup winner and guess what, he is because the owners are racing him in lower grade races as his career continues.


I couldn't agree more Clap A Melb. Cup winner of nearly 7 million, hasn't won for nearly 3 years, last placed over 2 years ago  & with openly admitted, serious soundness issues Disapprove

It's more than simply not winning or being uncompetitive -- as a mature horse he's uncompetitive at distances less than 2600 m.  There are very few races available other than stakes races at those distances.  

Djebel and I have a semi-regular conversation in the breeding forum about why is Trainer ABC running a horse by So You Think/Reliable Man/Raise the Flag/Etc in a 1400 m race when it needs 2400 m -- this is why.  There aren't that many races at  >2400 m, and if that horse can run and win money at 1400 m that pays the feed bill.  If Vow & Declare were a garden-variety city winner instead of a MC winner, he would have been retired (or sold) long ago instead of munching thousands of dollars over the last 2 years for no result.  

And I can't imagine taking a horse with a known tendon tear and putting it over fences. That's "poking the dragon" level of asking for trouble.  
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Great to see a return to form for this guy
Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing
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Agree Shawy, great to see heā€™s still got something to offer, rumbling home for 3rd in the Sally Chirnside Stks 2500m under 61kgs.

I think Danny would be pretty happy with the return of Young Werther today too in the 1700m race. 
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ClapHeartStar
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Looked a treat , and raced accordingly ClapClap well done to all concerned , nothing beats salt water therapy for tendons ā¤ļø stood the test of time for centuries ! Wink
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Doesn't the lack of pain make a difference? Wink

Posted Aug 27 2021
Originally posted by Gay3 Gay3 wrote:

This is yet another example of a 'sound' horse badly out of form. There is always an issue but it needs diagnosing, often easier to say than done. However at his age & stage, the bird may well have flown.

Trainer Danny Oļæ½Brien must see a sign of intent from Vow And Declare on Saturday at Caulfield to warrant a third Cups campaign.

The 2019 Melbourne Cup winner, who has gone eight starts and more than 660 days without success due to hoof and back issues, will resume in the Listed Heatherlie Stakes (1700m).

While not needed to fight out the finish first-up with 60kg and short of the preferred distance range, Oļæ½Brien hopes the six-year-old gelding will be competitive after a long absence.

Vow And Declare has only been to the races once ļæ½ the Group 3 Easter Cup in April ļæ½ since battling in the Cup last year with a big weight (57kg) and undiagnosed back soreness.
Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Congrats to Danny Oā€™Brien for persisting with the horse & getting his niggles right.  Has been really good every run this spring, so must be very satisfying for the stable & connections to see him win a big race again.

Well done V&D Clap
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Fifth career win for Vow And Declare from 29 starts

28/11/2022: Group 2 Zipping Classic (2400m WFA)

5/11/2019: Group 1 Melbourne Cup (3200m HCP)

22/6/2019: Group 3 Tattersall's Cup (3000m HCP)

8/11/2018: Listed TVL TC Stakes (1800m SWP)

19/10/2018: Maiden (2381m SW)
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Danny has got V&D going really well again this autumn.  Really strong effort running 2nd in the Aust Cup Prelude today.

That said, where does he go to from here for a win?

Aust Cup? Tancred? Roy Higgins? Sydney Cup?
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Missing from Sydney Cup acceptances yesterday Confused

Heā€™s been racing well and was strong to the line in the Tancred last start.  

Can only assume connections are dodging the wet track with him?

Perhaps re-routing the campaign to the Q22 & Tatts Cup in Brisbane?
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Campaign started with so much promise but has really fizzled out.

Thought heā€™d be well suited in the Ramsden back at Flemington & out to 2800m, but he was already starting to struggle at the 600m mark.

Probably not justifying a QLD winter carnival trip off his last 2 efforts.  So turn him out and bring him back for another Spring carnival later in the year.
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