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Vow And Declare |
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Jamal
Champion Joined: 25 Jul 2011 Status: Offline Points: 8684 |
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Go and find me where it says the Turnbull Stakes is not an exception race for the Caulfield Cup? I've got the Caulfield Cuo conditions in front of me and it says: EXEMPT RACES The winners of the 2021: ? Underwood Stakes ? Naturalism Stakes ? Turnbull Stakes ? Herbert Power Stakes ? The Might and Power ? Mornington Cup ? Coongy Handicap ? Sheema Classic (UAE) ? Jockey Club Stakes (UK) ? Champions and Chater Cup (HK) ? Meguro Kinen (JPN) ? Grand Prix de Chantilly (FR) ? Hardwicke Stakes (UK) ? Princess of Waless Stakes (UK) Shall not be eliminated from the 2021 Caulfield Cup, provided that in the case of a dead-heat for first, the Committee may exercise its absolute discretion as to which horse or horses involved in the dead-heat shall be exempt from elimination. PENALTIES The winner, after declaration of weights, of any internationally recognised Listed handicap, Group handicap or Graded handicap race run over a distance of 1600 metres or further (2021 Herbert Power Stakes and Coongy Handicap excepted) is to carry such additional weight (if any) for each win as the Handicapper shall determine. Provided that, in lieu of re-handicapping, should such winner be a horse on the minimum handicap weight (for its age group) the Handicapper may, at his discretion, instead amend the originally appended weight figure against the benchmark weight downwards, to a figure that is not less than or equal to the appended weight figure for a horse of the same age and gender handicapped above the advertised minimum weight (for its age group). Any such amendments referred to above shall not affect the weight to be carried in the race. In these circumstances, any extra weight to be imposed on any horse, or in lieu of re-handicapping, any amendment to the appended weight figure against the benchmark weight for a horse shall be declared by the Handicapper not later than five (5) working days after such win. I am more then happy to email you both the Caulfield Cup and Melbourne Cuo conditions. |
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Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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speedingaway
Champion Joined: 03 Jan 2009 Location: Carlton Status: Offline Points: 632 |
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I'm talking about the Melbourne Cup cobber
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Jamal
Champion Joined: 25 Jul 2011 Status: Offline Points: 8684 |
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Do you still want ballot conditions?
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Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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speedingaway
Champion Joined: 03 Jan 2009 Location: Carlton Status: Offline Points: 632 |
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I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but winning the Turnbull allows you to pass the ballot of the Melbourne Cup.
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VSP.
Premium Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 8350 |
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## I've hidden about a dozen posts in this thread and a few of you are walking a fine line towards a holiday. Quit insulting and abusing each other, the rest of us are sick of the childishness.
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www.snowshoecats.webs.com
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Afros
Champion Joined: 14 Jan 2009 Status: Offline Points: 15512 |
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On Vow and Declare, hopefully he regains full fitness and if he were mine, he'd have one or two runs into the Adelaide Cup then from there Sydney and Brisbane Cups, races like the Chairman's in Sydney and the Premier's Cup in Brisbane are available if he needs some runs to tick over.
Run the poor horse in suitable races.
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Jamal
Champion Joined: 25 Jul 2011 Status: Offline Points: 8684 |
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I agree Afros
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Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Shawy38
Champion Joined: 13 Jun 2015 Status: Offline Points: 17413 |
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Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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They should send him to Europe for a jumping career.
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reductio ad absurdum
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Offline Points: 45811 |
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Nothing like pursuing a jumping career for relative peanuts in the UK after suffering a torn tendon and lacking ability on rain affected tracks.
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VOYAGER
Champion Joined: 03 Aug 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 18737 |
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So no one has heard of retirement?
We all said he was a throwback to an old style cup winner and guess what, he is because the owners are racing him in lower grade races as his career continues.
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Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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OK, Go jumping in Australia where the prize money is nowhere near what he would be racing for in UK and Irish jumps races. He has a very limited future on the flat in Australia. He can kick off in a maiden race if going hurdling.
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reductio ad absurdum
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Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Offline Points: 52012 |
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I couldn't agree more A Melb. Cup winner of nearly 7 million, hasn't won for nearly 3 years, last placed over 2 years ago & with openly admitted, serious soundness issues |
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Jamal
Champion Joined: 25 Jul 2011 Status: Offline Points: 8684 |
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What's this obsession of yours with every horse having to go to Europe? Vow And Declare simply wouldn't be good enough for Europe....on the flat or as a jumper. It's a different level over there or do you fail to recognise this?
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Jamal
Champion Joined: 25 Jul 2011 Status: Offline Points: 8684 |
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Correct - Vow And Declare is an old fashioned Melbourne Cup winner, a handicapper/handicap stayer. Won the 2019 Melbourne Cup with 52kg. That means future staying races in Australia meant he would be carrying big weights, such is the landscape for most staying races in Australia being handicap races. Plus he isnt up to it at WFA either. Djebel is right to a certain extent - Vow And Declare's opportunities are limited in Australia for the reasons i said above but he isnt good enough to run in Europe. Might be best to just retire him. He has done his job, he is a Melbourne Cup winner - a Group 1 winner and he will always be remembered for that.
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ExceedAndExcel
Champion Joined: 20 Dec 2008 Status: Offline Points: 16245 |
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Shawy38
Champion Joined: 13 Jun 2015 Status: Offline Points: 17413 |
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I agree, hopefully common sense prevails.
Heās a lovely looking horse, would make a great dressage pony
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Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing
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Jamal
Champion Joined: 25 Jul 2011 Status: Offline Points: 8684 |
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Yep I agree, its time Vow And Declare was retired. Nothing really more to prove. He'll always be remembered as a Melbourne Cup winner and an Australian-bred Melbourne Cup winner as well which is rare in recent times.
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Kimberley Mine
Champion Joined: 01 Oct 2013 Status: Offline Points: 1517 |
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It's more than simply not winning or being uncompetitive -- as a mature horse he's uncompetitive at distances less than 2600 m. There are very few races available other than stakes races at those distances. Djebel and I have a semi-regular conversation in the breeding forum about why is Trainer ABC running a horse by So You Think/Reliable Man/Raise the Flag/Etc in a 1400 m race when it needs 2400 m -- this is why. There aren't that many races at >2400 m, and if that horse can run and win money at 1400 m that pays the feed bill. If Vow & Declare were a garden-variety city winner instead of a MC winner, he would have been retired (or sold) long ago instead of munching thousands of dollars over the last 2 years for no result. And I can't imagine taking a horse with a known tendon tear and putting it over fences. That's "poking the dragon" level of asking for trouble.
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Shawy38
Champion Joined: 13 Jun 2015 Status: Offline Points: 17413 |
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Great to see a return to form for this guy
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Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing
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Lord Hybrow
Champion Joined: 05 Jul 2015 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 6683 |
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Agree Shawy, great to see heās still got something to offer, rumbling home for 3rd in the Sally Chirnside Stks 2500m under 61kgs.
I think Danny would be pretty happy with the return of Young Werther today too in the 1700m race.
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brave_ponies
Champion Joined: 06 Sep 2013 Location: Sydney Status: Offline Points: 3273 |
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Carioca
Champion Joined: 13 Nov 2015 Status: Offline Points: 21830 |
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Looked a treat , and raced accordingly well done to all concerned , nothing beats salt water therapy for tendons ā¤ļø stood the test of time for centuries !
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Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Offline Points: 52012 |
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Doesn't the lack of pain make a difference? Posted Aug 27 2021
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Offline Points: 52012 |
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Lord Hybrow
Champion Joined: 05 Jul 2015 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 6683 |
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Congrats to Danny OāBrien for persisting with the horse & getting his niggles right. Has been really good every run this spring, so must be very satisfying for the stable & connections to see him win a big race again.
Well done V&D
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Jamal
Champion Joined: 25 Jul 2011 Status: Offline Points: 8684 |
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Fifth career win for Vow And Declare from 29 starts
28/11/2022: Group 2 Zipping Classic (2400m WFA) 5/11/2019: Group 1 Melbourne Cup (3200m HCP) 22/6/2019: Group 3 Tattersall's Cup (3000m HCP) 8/11/2018: Listed TVL TC Stakes (1800m SWP) 19/10/2018: Maiden (2381m SW)
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Lord Hybrow
Champion Joined: 05 Jul 2015 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 6683 |
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Danny has got V&D going really well again this autumn. Really strong effort running 2nd in the Aust Cup Prelude today.
That said, where does he go to from here for a win? Aust Cup? Tancred? Roy Higgins? Sydney Cup?
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Lord Hybrow
Champion Joined: 05 Jul 2015 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 6683 |
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Missing from Sydney Cup acceptances yesterday
Heās been racing well and was strong to the line in the Tancred last start. Can only assume connections are dodging the wet track with him? Perhaps re-routing the campaign to the Q22 & Tatts Cup in Brisbane?
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Lord Hybrow
Champion Joined: 05 Jul 2015 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 6683 |
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Campaign started with so much promise but has really fizzled out.
Thought heād be well suited in the Ramsden back at Flemington & out to 2800m, but he was already starting to struggle at the 600m mark. Probably not justifying a QLD winter carnival trip off his last 2 efforts. So turn him out and bring him back for another Spring carnival later in the year.
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