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Vow And Declare |
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Lord Hybrow
Champion Joined: 05 Jul 2015 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 6667 |
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A really memorable Cup & just great to see a local victory.
It’s a satisfying result because V&D is a horse we’ve all seen work his way through the grades here, from a 2381m maiden at The Bool just over a year ago, though to the Qld winter carnival & now the pinnacle of the Melb Cup. Well done Danny and well done V&D 👏👏 |
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saintly96
Champion Joined: 12 Jun 2008 Location: Nunya biz Status: Offline Points: 12926 |
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A great win. He fought on so well, has a real bit of mongrel in him. Williams rode him so well, didn't panic when Frankie took a leaf out of the Miracle Mal playbook on Master Of Reality.
A great result. |
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Sunline
Champion Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 22302 |
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What a star this horse is. Just a consummate professional and all he knows is to stay!
Amazing initiative and courage from Craig, and phenomenal training performance from O'Brien. How on earth did he trade at such value for so much of the pre post and final field betting? Some bookie offered $17 promo today I'm told?
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Sunline...simply supreme
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acacia alba
Champion Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Location: Hunter Valley Status: Offline Points: 41483 |
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Why is it sad ? That a complete Aussie beats the world that brought their best to take us on , and the small fry showed them a clean pair of heels . If you find it sad an Ozz took on the world and won, I think you might be a bit sad.
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animals before people.
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maccamax
Champion Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Status: Offline Points: 41473 |
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Ahhhhh Well ... Just another day at the Office for Australia's best Jockey.
He's probably thinking more about a Maiden at Moe tomorrow . |
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Tlazolteotl
Champion Joined: 02 Oct 2012 Location: Elephant Butte Status: Offline Points: 31422 |
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V&D shows why Australians aren't that interested in breeding V&Ds. Uneconomic to breed - passed in at 45k- and uneconomic to buy - very few races it can win, and even if it was an entire worth nothing after racing.
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An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.
Simon Cameron |
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Sunline
Champion Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 22302 |
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Disagree with this. What exactly is uneconomical to buy? He would have cost peanuts if someone paid the reserve, and he was placing in G1s and winning stakes races by the end of his 3yo year. I think people who don't breed and/or race horses have a perception that most horses race at two or at least by early three. The reality is very, very few race at two, and most are racing well into their 3yo year. He is proof that when you get a good one that can stay, you open yourself up to a multitude of great prizemoney races. If you can make the ever-shrinking step to WFA, you strike gold. Samadoubt was a WFA horse this prep. Let that sink in - as good as he is and no disrespect to him whatsoever. There are very few 2yo races to win, and they are often highly competitive. You put all your eggs in that basket and you potentially end up with a horse without the scope to improve and progress beyond two.
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Sunline...simply supreme
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Jamal
Champion Joined: 25 Jul 2011 Status: Offline Points: 8680 |
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Vow And Declare (AUS)
Sire: Declaration Of War (USA) Dam: Geblitzt (AUS) Career Record: 13 starts: 4-3-2 Prize Money: $5,722,690 Major Wins 2019 Group 1 Melbourne Cup (3200m hcp) 2019 Listed Tattersalls Cup (3000m sw) 2018 Listed Connessiuer Stakes (1800m swp) Best Minor Performances 2nd: 2019 Group 1 Caulfield Cup (2400m hcp) 2nd: 2019 Group 1 QLD Derby (2400m sw) 4th: 2019 Group 1 Turnbull Stakes (2000m swp) |
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Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Red Hare
Champion Joined: 12 Jan 2015 Location: Victoria Status: Offline Points: 4233 |
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The balance of imports v exports is a fair indicator of market viability. The local buying bench is far too compromised by false bidders, debt traders, syndicators and their like. Mind you, if a trainers are savvy enough to know when a horse is better suited to a late 3yo debut, do they need to charge the same rate for the first year of racing eligibility?
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Jamal
Champion Joined: 25 Jul 2011 Status: Offline Points: 8680 |
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117 rating (by Timeform UK) for Cup win. Lets see what assessment Timeform Australia gives for Cup win.
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Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Afros
Champion Joined: 14 Jan 2009 Status: Offline Points: 15478 |
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Was listening to SEN yesterday, Danny O'Brien was on talking about Vow and Declare and a few others.
He said that due to how their training setup works they don't need to race V&D in unsuitable 1400 or 1600 races and they would never race him below 2000, he'll likely go Aus Cup, QE2 and the 2200m race on Stradbroke day this prep and repeat last springs prep this prep. Danny should expect djebel to be his #1 fan now. |
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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It's funny you should say that because he is growing on me.
What I do not understand is what his BOOM 3yo Russian Camelot is doing in the 1400m race at Flemington on Saturday ? And are they still dreaming of the English Derby with him ?
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reductio ad absurdum
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Straight arrow
Champion Joined: 01 Dec 2018 Status: Offline Points: 1026 |
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How long before Olillie takes the ride on this horse?
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Foxseal
Champion Joined: 06 Dec 2011 Status: Offline Points: 2705 |
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Interesting to read that Danny O’Brien is considering aiming V&D at the Andrew Ramsden Stks next month.
With Qld campaign plans now scotched by border restrictions, this race does fit well for the horse. 2800m WFA at Flemington should be right in his wheelhouse. |
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VOYAGER
Champion Joined: 04 Aug 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 18737 |
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To give him the fitness foundation he had going into last spring he needs two more runs at 2400m+.
How does the Warnmabool Cup fit in with this program, could he run in both? |
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Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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Jamal
Champion Joined: 25 Jul 2011 Status: Offline Points: 8680 |
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Should be winning today at Flemington in the 2600m open handicap race. Has 61kg.
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Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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VOYAGER
Champion Joined: 04 Aug 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 18737 |
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Maybe.
I personally think Haky is well placed here! Did not run the 3200m at Sandown and so forget that and di not handle the derby day slow (night not have backed up and was second up from the break), but his Geelong Cup effort is absolutely good enough to win here and he drops half a kilo due to the cup winner being here. Well weighted, the distance is right in his wheel house, and can sit forward and goes well second up, when right. I think the double figures on offer is good value! |
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Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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Grey Affair
Champion Joined: 24 Jun 2017 Location: Queensland Status: Online Points: 3000 |
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I agree with that, Voyager. Haky is my top-rater as well. |
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Offline Points: 45760 |
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Well done you two.
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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reductio ad absurdum
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Jamal
Champion Joined: 25 Jul 2011 Status: Offline Points: 8680 |
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Vow And Declare disappointing
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Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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Great tipping peoples.
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reductio ad absurdum
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Shawy38
Champion Joined: 13 Jun 2015 Status: Offline Points: 17398 |
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Weight stops trains
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Lord Hybrow
Champion Joined: 05 Jul 2015 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 6667 |
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Voyager & Grey Affair
V&D pretty disappointing that he didn’t pick up in the straight but hopefully still goes to the Ramsden Stks |
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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Not to that extent. He only had 5 kgs over the limit. |
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reductio ad absurdum
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VOYAGER
Champion Joined: 04 Aug 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 18737 |
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Thanks guys, yeah the value was there and $12.50 was always worth a shake each way.
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Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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Jamal
Champion Joined: 25 Jul 2011 Status: Offline Points: 8680 |
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Vow And Declare was disappointing, wasn't good enough - yes he had 61kg but as Djebel said the difference was only 5kg from the top weight (61kg) and the bottom weight (56kg).
Perhaps Timeform was spot on with that Cup win in terms of 117 which was lowest rating for a Melbourne Cup winner since Brew (2000 - 114). |
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Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Shawy38
Champion Joined: 13 Jun 2015 Status: Offline Points: 17398 |
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He is only a little horse though. The weight would’ve made a difference imo
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Mr Grieves
Champion Joined: 28 Jan 2014 Location: Canberra Status: Offline Points: 934 |
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He was very well treated under the Quality hcp conditions. PRetty average run
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max manewer
Champion Joined: 31 Jan 2010 Status: Offline Points: 32947 |
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Might be a spring horse
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