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Timeform - Battaash is as good as Vain |
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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"Superstar" after 1 G1 win in France. Says it all really.
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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I know a few superstars that have never won a group 1. To be dismissive of 1 group 1 win shows how much disrespect we have for high level horse racing. |
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reductio ad absurdum
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Tlazolteotl
Champion Joined: 02 Oct 2012 Location: Elephant Butte Status: Offline Points: 31422 |
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Define superstar?
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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A bloody good racehorse.
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reductio ad absurdum
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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Bataash has incredible ability, However he is very quirky and unreliable. I am sure Timeform will add one of their squiggles indicating ungenuine or unreliable.
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reductio ad absurdum
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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By Simon Rowlands — published 24th June 2014
Simon Rowlands analyses the numbers behind the symbol, and how they could alter your betting for the better. Over the decades, Timeform has been inadvertently responsible for altering some aspects of the racing lexicon, for better or worse. There is the Timeform “p” (indicating the likelihood of improvement on a rating) and "large P” (indicating the likelihood of considerable improvement, or considerable disappointment, depending on the outcome), the use of the word “penultimate” in a largely non-ironic setting, and a predilection for a frequent-overuse-of-hyphen style seen nowhere else in the English-speaking world. Perhaps the most famous, or infamous, example of this contribution to the common parlance is the “Timeform squiggle”. Or, in racing vernacular, “The Dreaded Timeform Squiggle”. Early editions of Timeform’s Racehorses annuals backed up a “§” (squiggle) attached to a horse’s rating with some inflammatory language, such as “an arrant rogue” and “refuses to do his best”. That was all a bit subjective, not to say potentially litigious, even though, as Timeform’s founder Phil Bullobserved, “you can’t libel a horse, brother”. The definition of a squiggle was changed about 20 years ago to “unreliable (for temperamental or other reasons)”. Timeform is primarily concerned with effects – not their causes – then: a squiggle indicates unpredictability, not what causes that unpredictability. There have been some notable recipients of the Timeform squiggle over the years, including Cheltenham Gold Cup winner Bregawn, King George VI and Queen Elizabeth Stakes runners-up Norse Dancer and Papal Bull, Champion Hurdle second Harchibald and top-class jumper Tidal Bay (“a reformed character”, or “we got it wrong”: either way, he no longer has a squiggle). This may all seem rather academic for a blog which usually aims to look ahead, not back. So, in an attempt to justify my reputation as “the man who puts the anal into analysis”, I investigated the incidence of squiggle horses by-sire, the idea being that a high or low incidence should guide as to how little or how much to trust the offspring of such sires, especially when little else is known about the offspring in question. The following are extracts of the “best” and “worst” sires, with the data taken from all Flat racing in Britain and Ireland in 2011 to 2013 inclusive. The figures are for individual horses which had pre-race §s on their ratings at least once in that period (the overall incidence of such horses was just under 3% in the entire horse population) and only sires with 70 or more individual runners were considered (there were 112 of them). In addition, and in recognition that applying squiggles can still be subjective, even if the terminology is much less so these days, I formed a “gameness index”, taken as the ratio of wins to seconds for a sire’s offspring in the same period. The idea is that a certain genetic reluctance to battle when the chips are down might be reflected in a tendency to finish second rather than first. There are some familiar names in the “Hall of Shame”. Most people with an opinion on this matter already will not be surprised to see the likes of Montjeu, Hawk Wing and Fasliyev high up the list of sires by incidence of squiggle. What was news, to me at least, was that Shamardal had an unblemished record as the sire of a large number of squiggle-free horses. But that is nothing compared to the shock of seeing Antonius Pius in that list of sires whose offspring escaped the squiggle treatment. Antonius Pius was a dodgepot himself, failing to win after his two-year-old season and earning both a squiggle and the sobriquet “Antonius Pigus” at Timeform. Some of his offspring in the 2011 to 2013 period got close to squiggles, but, rightly or wrongly, none of them suffered that ignominy. Like father, unlike son/daughter, in this instance. At the top of the list of sires whose offspring have won a higher proportion of races than they have finished second in is the mighty Galileo, the pre-eminent sire of recent years. Galileo had nine squiggle horses from 435 individuals in the period under review (2.1%), which is only slightly better than average. But it seems that, when it came to a tight finish, his sons and daughters in general put their heads down and battled. The finest breeding, best physique and most fastidious human care can only take a horse so far. What often separates the winners from the losers is a willingness to put it in when required, and to keep putting it in: mental toughness, as it were. That is a thing well worth remembering when selecting your bets. |
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reductio ad absurdum
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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By Timeform — published 5th February 2014
A guide to the symbols you'll find in Race Passes and Timeform Race Cards AbbreviationsThe following symbols are used with (or sometimes in place of) Timeform Ratings.
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reductio ad absurdum
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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In anybodies language JOANNE was a superstar. She was the best sprinting mare of her era, Yet she never won a group 1 race.
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reductio ad absurdum
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Shrunk in the Wash
Champion Joined: 25 Mar 2016 Status: Offline Points: 9890 |
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Miami
Champion Joined: 12 Aug 2018 Status: Offline Points: 358 |
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The English are desperate for another "superstar". This year has been a non-vintage year that's for sure and the Royal Ascot carnival was one of the most insipid in the last 50 years.
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ThreeBears
Champion Joined: 13 Apr 2017 Status: Offline Points: 2911 |
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Some English commentator last night pre-race said he thought Baattash was the world's best horse. What a complete joke that was
If that was Matt Chapman just ignore anything that comes out of his cavernous gob. He'd rival any of Australia's great radio winbags for BS factor and then some.
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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Battaash is another Mr Harbourside Mansion. A pretender with a moderate record and sfa ticker. His name should never be mentioned among the great sprinters of the world.
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Tontonan
Champion Joined: 13 Oct 2007 Status: Offline Points: 3898 |
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A guide to the symbols you'll find in Race Passes and Timeform Race Cards
Abbreviations The following symbols are used with (or sometimes in place of) Timeform Ratings. p commonly referred to as a small 'p'; we are covering our arse just in case we have underrated the horse P commonly referred to as a large 'P'; we have over rated this horse + we have no idea what we are doing ? we do not have a farting clue. § the 'Timeform squiggle'; The horse is making us look foolish §§ the 'double squiggle'; We hate this farting horse |
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ThreeBears
Champion Joined: 13 Apr 2017 Status: Offline Points: 2911 |
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Highly accurate guide there Tonto
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Atreus
Champion Joined: 25 Nov 2014 Status: Offline Points: 329 |
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There are horses which can produce huge peak ratings but then fail at other starts. Hareeba was one such horse. Battaash might be such a horse and so it failing most of the time does not by itself invalidate the Timeform rating for its peak run Hartnell would be the best recent example in Australia. Ran a huge race in the Turnbull but never got near that performance again. Hartnell only got 128 from Timeform for that run while Battaash gets 136. Most likely Hartnell and Battaash should have the same peak rating
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Miami
Champion Joined: 12 Aug 2018 Status: Offline Points: 358 |
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Yes I accept they can run a blinder but a 136 is criminal and shows their desperation.
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Tlazolteotl
Champion Joined: 02 Oct 2012 Location: Elephant Butte Status: Offline Points: 31422 |
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I do not agree. Hareeba and Hartnell produced multiple high level performances. If one rating sticks out like dogs balls far above all other performances it can mean only one of 2 things- drugs or rating error.
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Tlazolteotl
Champion Joined: 02 Oct 2012 Location: Elephant Butte Status: Offline Points: 31422 |
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Unless that outlier performance occurs early in a career and is followed soon after by serious injury.
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TJMitchell
Champion Joined: 29 Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 16915 |
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So the Worlds Best Sprinter gets rolled by a decent filly, a perennial runner up and a 2YO! Probably gets 131...
Also Enable wins her 2nd Arc but she didn't carry 61.5kg so I couldn't possibly rate her any higher than 107 /s |
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correctweight
Champion Joined: 20 May 2010 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 2560 |
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Bataash should be set for the flat knacker or bat out of hell.
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Brudder_A
Champion Joined: 01 Apr 2013 Location: Uzhhorod Status: Offline Points: 4249 |
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Battaash returns for his first start this season in the G2 Temple Stakes at Haydock. Won this race last year as the 10/11on favourite over Kachy. Kachy had wind surgery and since has won three straight on the all weather tracks of Wolverhampton and Lingfield. |
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Brudder_A
Champion Joined: 01 Apr 2013 Location: Uzhhorod Status: Offline Points: 4249 |
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Battaash Scores Record-Breaking Fourth King George Win |
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TJMitchell
Champion Joined: 29 Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 16915 |
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He's so similar to Nature Strip. When he's on, he's on.
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Time is a flat circle
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Tlazolteotl
Champion Joined: 02 Oct 2012 Location: Elephant Butte Status: Offline Points: 31422 |
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It's interesting that a horse can have a long successful career over there and only ever run in 1000m races. If you did that here you wouldn't start very often.
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An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.
Simon Cameron |
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Offline Points: 45733 |
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Certainly electric on his day.
Though I did note that the 2nd and 3rd placegetters have won just a single Group race between them in 70 starts.
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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There are not many left for the also rans. |
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reductio ad absurdum
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Lord Hybrow
Champion Joined: 05 Jul 2015 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 6667 |
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Won the G1 Nunthorpe Stks over 1000m at York overnight.
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Jamal
Champion Joined: 25 Jul 2011 Status: Offline Points: 8678 |
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Saw the win. Not dominant. Did enough to get the job done.
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Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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