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Australia's Whip Rules |
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Batman
Champion Joined: 22 Jan 2018 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 2287 |
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MONSTER OF POWER – Rider A. Spinks pleaded guilty to a charge under AR 132(5) in that he used his whip in an excessive manner, that being on 18 occasions. Rider A. Spinks’ license to ride in races was suspended for a period of ten (10) days to commence at midnight on 8 November 2020 and to expire at midnight on 18 November 2020. In considering penalty, Stewards took into account a recent breach of the same rule and that the gelding had placed 1st in the race. |
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“Gambling has brought our family closer together. We had to move to a smaller house.”
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horlicks
Champion Joined: 26 Feb 2010 Status: Offline Points: 8407 |
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From the Derby Rider Fred Kersley pleaded
guilty under the provisions of AR132(7)(a)(ii) in that he used his whip on 10 occasions
prior to the 100 metres which is five more than permitted. Fred Kersley had
his licence to ride in races suspended for a period to commence midnight 3 November
2020 to expire at the conclusion of the day meeting on 12 November 2020, a
total of 10 race meetings (2 metropolitan, 8 provincial ). Fred Kersley was
also fined $10,000. Stewards took into account his record, totality of whip
strikes and the fact that he placed 2nd in a Group 1 event.
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Tlazolteotl
Champion Joined: 02 Oct 2012 Location: Elephant Butte Status: Offline Points: 31422 |
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Horses can feel just as much pain from as humanslA andmark scientific paper published today shows that horses have the capability to feel as much pain from whipping as humans. Racing NSW has a completely contrary view, with its CEO Peter V'Landys recently saying, "we've got to educate the public the whip doesn't hurt". But the new study reported: "Humans and horses have the equivalent basic anatomic structures to detect pain in the skin." "Our conclusions are that we need to accept that the physical capacity of horses to accept pain is clear," said the report's author, Paul McGreevy, the Professor of Animal Behaviour and Animal Welfare Science at the University of Sydney. |
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TJMitchell
Champion Joined: 29 Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 16915 |
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Scale down the whip hitting the human on the ass or shoulder equivalent to a riding whip and a horse and I'd say it wouldn't hurt very much at all.
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Time is a flat circle
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Tlazolteotl
Champion Joined: 02 Oct 2012 Location: Elephant Butte Status: Offline Points: 31422 |
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But Kevin Ring, the Work Health and Safety Officer for the Australian Jockey's Association and prior to that a jockey for 30 years, said whips are essential for safety. "Every horse is different," he said. "Some react better to certain stimulus, some don't, and others need encouragement, simple as that," he said. "This is about encouragement, not about hurting the animal." "I've hit myself with a padded whip and other people, it doesn't hurt. It's only there as a noise thing to encourage the horse." So ditch the whip and carry a bike horn. |
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An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.
Simon Cameron |
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TJMitchell
Champion Joined: 29 Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 16915 |
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One of those 'honka, honka' ones
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Time is a flat circle
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rusty nails
Champion Joined: 20 Mar 2013 Location: Sydney Status: Online Points: 11392 |
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Saw some science show on ABC actually whip a human. She said when contact was only padded bit, no pain. But when point of contact was the stem (which is often the case in a race) different story. I seen horses with welts. Welts hurt them too.
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Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Offline Points: 52004 |
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Of course they do rusty, the science is only stating the bleeding obvious but tradition in the industry dies slowly Hell, when they skin twitch to remove a fly or mozzy, commonsense says they have the same pain sensations as humans or any other being for that matter!
In case anyone's wondering, I'm as guilty in the past, as the next person in using a whip. |
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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TJMitchell
Champion Joined: 29 Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 16915 |
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What size whip did they use?
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Time is a flat circle
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rusty nails
Champion Joined: 20 Mar 2013 Location: Sydney Status: Online Points: 11392 |
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On the bird on tv, or horses with welts after a race recently?
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TJMitchell
Champion Joined: 29 Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 16915 |
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On the lady obviously
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Time is a flat circle
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rusty nails
Champion Joined: 20 Mar 2013 Location: Sydney Status: Online Points: 11392 |
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Not sure that it matters.
Twisting their ears seems to be at least as painful as it is to humans. And it wasn’t the same strike on the tv girly, as a horse gets in a tight finish.
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rusty nails
Champion Joined: 20 Mar 2013 Location: Sydney Status: Online Points: 11392 |
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TJMitchell
Champion Joined: 29 Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 16915 |
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I would think a 50kg woman getting hit with the same whip as 450kg animal would matter. Twisting an ear is a lot different then a whip strike on the rear.
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Time is a flat circle
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Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Offline Points: 52004 |
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I may have it wrong but are you suggesting a 50gks human feels pain more than a 100kgs one TJ?
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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rusty nails
Champion Joined: 20 Mar 2013 Location: Sydney Status: Online Points: 11392 |
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It’s a reasonable point you make, but I’m not convinced it’s accurate. I scrolled thru the vid I posted,and came across a bit where they showed that horses have more pain receptors than humans, and they are closer to the skin. Bottom line, is if it doesn’t hurt, how are they supposed to improve a horses performance? I’m not passionate about it, but I would much prefer zero whips, than what we have atm. |
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TJMitchell
Champion Joined: 29 Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 16915 |
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Not at all but I am suggesting using the same whip on a 50kg woman that you would use on a 450kg animal may have a different effect. |
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Time is a flat circle
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Tlazolteotl
Champion Joined: 02 Oct 2012 Location: Elephant Butte Status: Offline Points: 31422 |
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100kg person more likely to have more padding than a 50kg person. I've never seen a plump 50kg adult.
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An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.
Simon Cameron |
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Carioca
Champion Joined: 13 Nov 2015 Status: Offline Points: 21824 |
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Nice return Tlaz and from the baseline too.
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International
Champion Joined: 13 May 2012 Location: Dubai Status: Offline Points: 964 |
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Sounded pretty dubious so had a quick look and found this reference. Obese people have lower pain threshold, new research shows |
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Tlazolteotl
Champion Joined: 02 Oct 2012 Location: Elephant Butte Status: Offline Points: 31422 |
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Interesting. But while at that site I found this: "Black soldier fly larvae contains more zinc and iron than lean meat and
its calcium content is higher than milk. Less than half a hectare of
black soldier fly larvae can produce more protein than cattle grazing on
around 1200 hectares, or 52 hectares of soybeans. New research has
identified the barriers for introducing fly protein into Western human
diets as a sustainable, healthy alternative to both meat and plant
proteins." |
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An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.
Simon Cameron |
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Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Offline Points: 52004 |
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So much for the whip being needed for steering & safety Watch the head on at 1.26min mark Copy/paste https://www.racingqueensland.com.au/racing-and-results/full-calendar/thoroughbred/meeting/emer/20201113/race/2 |
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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TJMitchell
Champion Joined: 29 Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 16915 |
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Something has happened to that horse between it's first prep and it's second prep. Watch it's trial and race first prep compared to it's trial and race this time in.
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Time is a flat circle
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Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Offline Points: 52004 |
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Nothing to do with the whip that they don't feel then? I've seen neither his trial/s nor 1st race start as I wouldn't know where to start on Q/land racing.
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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TJMitchell
Champion Joined: 29 Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 16915 |
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Just click on the horses name from the page you linked, it'll take you there. He obviously had a reaction to the whip in that replay, but he wasn't right in the head at his trial before that start either.
The prep prior he is whipped in race and trial with no such reaction. That's why I'm saying something has happened between now and then to make him react that way.
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Time is a flat circle
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Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Offline Points: 52004 |
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Oh yes! Only connections would know if thewy can indeed pick up on these things & we can surmise all we like but that's all it would be
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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TJMitchell
Champion Joined: 29 Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 16915 |
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Yes only a few would know but when you see such an adverse reaction that wasn't there previously your mind does take you in a certain direction.
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Time is a flat circle
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Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Offline Points: 52004 |
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Assuming we're on the same page, there's an art to its' use involving knowing your horse intimately, something few have perfected but those who have, are very successful, tho' they are only judged by their winners, who knows how many epic fails there are
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Good Old Ted
Champion Joined: 25 Jan 2019 Status: Offline Points: 289 |
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"Neil Farley (Spanish Snitzel) (2nd Placegetter) Pleaded guilty to a charge under the provisions of AR232(b) of having failed to comply with an order, direction or requirement of the Stewards that he failed to use his whip in accordance with conditions of Race Seven today, those conditions being imposed by the Racing Victoria Board pursuant to AR151(2)[c]. In the race he rode Spanish Snitzel and used his whip on nine occasions, being four times over the permitted limit allowable under the relevant conditions of the race. Neil Farleys licence to ride in races was suspended for a period to commence at midnight Monday 22nd February 2021 and to expire at midnight Tuesday 2nd March 2021. (9 meetings, 3 metropolitan, 6 provincial). Neil Farley was also fined $500. In assessing penalty Stewards took into account his guilty plea and the published penalty guidelines surrounding the 2021 Country Mile Race Series. Trainer Con Kelly was notified that in accordance with conditions of the race, due to the breach of the whip rule by rider Neil Farley, Spanish Snitzel is ineligible to compete in any further heats or the final of the 2021 Country Mile race Series."
Very harsh on the owners - jockey gets a pissweak fine and a short spell, the owner miss out on the opportunity for the horse, who had earned by finishing 2nd, a guaranteed place in a $250,000 race.
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Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Offline Points: 52004 |
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Equally harsh tho', on connections of horses legitimately ridden, who may later be beaten by a horse whose jockey had broken the rules in an earlier heat. Those who accepted for the race were made fully aware of the restrictions. Nice to see stewards act for once, whether one agrees with them or not
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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