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Fires - Victoria |
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Dr E
Champion Joined: 05 Feb 2013 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 28563 |
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Dizzied by your powers of deduction?
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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Online Points: 45319 |
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Comparative data: Area burnt out in 2019/20 bushfires: 10,500,000 hectares (1,300,000 hectares in Vic).
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Baghdad Bob
Champion Joined: 10 Feb 2010 Location: Victoria Status: Online Points: 13598 |
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Then again in 2009..
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Online Points: 45319 |
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Exactly, the human and structural loss occurred in outer city and nearer city rural areas.
Imagine the losses had the current fires not largely flared in remote or distanced rural areas.
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Online Points: 45319 |
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...but rather close to outer Melbourne, Sydneyetc.
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Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Offline Points: 51818 |
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From December 1938 to January 1939, fires burnt out around two million
hectares. 71 people died and more than 650 buildings were destroyed. The
most severe fires came during a firestorm on Friday January 13, known
as Black Friday. |
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Online Points: 45319 |
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Compared with ten and a half million hectares over the last three weeks. That's more than five times the size of Black Friday and ten times the size of Black Saturday. Imagine the frightening toll had the current fires flared closer to heavier populated, built up areas.
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Tontonan
Champion Joined: 13 Oct 2007 Status: Offline Points: 3898 |
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And to think that the majority of those catastrophic fires were started by people ! |
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Tontonan
Champion Joined: 13 Oct 2007 Status: Offline Points: 3898 |
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AUSTRALIA'S LARGEST BUSHFIRES (1,000,000 ha + 1850 to the present) 21st century fires in bold |
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Tontonan
Champion Joined: 13 Oct 2007 Status: Offline Points: 3898 |
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What is particularly disturbing about this history is how little forest we have left to burn and how rapidly and frequently it is burning.
For example : 88% of Victoria's 23.7 million hectares was tree covered (about 21 million hectares) before the arrival of the Europeans. Now the figure of the very liberally defined remaining forest [1] in Victoria is 6.4 million hectares. 15 million hectares of trees have been cleared in Victoria [2]. (State of the Forests Report 2018 - Commissioner for Environmental Sustainability Victoria) Australia wide forests covered 33% of the continent in 1788. This percentage has fallen to less than 17%. [ABS] [1] a 'forest' is defined as - “a land area dominated by trees having usually a single stem and a mature or potentially mature stand height exceeding two metres and with existing or potential crown cover of overstory strata about equal to or greater than 20 percent. This definition includes native forests and plantations and areas of trees that are sometimes described as woodlands” [2] the remainder are 2.3 million ha on private lands
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Tlazolteotl
Champion Joined: 02 Oct 2012 Location: Elephant Butte Status: Online Points: 31296 |
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I thought the new story being out there was that there were hardly any trees when the Brits arrived cos the Aboriginals had brilliantly burned it into parkland. Looked like manicured English estates blah blah blah. Something like that.
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An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.
Simon Cameron |
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acacia alba
Champion Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Location: Hunter Valley Status: Offline Points: 41243 |
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The Aboriginals managed to burn underbrush with out burning trees. They cleared the land so it regenerated with a bit of rain. They didnt burn down every tree on country,,,,,,and well you know that Tlaz.
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animals before people.
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Baguette
Champion Joined: 18 Dec 2012 Status: Offline Points: 3651 |
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Yes James Cook reported that the land was on fire as he sailed up east coast in 1770. He Aboriginals doing they’re hazard reduction burns . They were much smarter than us .
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acacia alba
Champion Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Location: Hunter Valley Status: Offline Points: 41243 |
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Was climate change around in 1770 ?
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animals before people.
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Carioca
Champion Joined: 13 Nov 2015 Status: Offline Points: 21698 |
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This is relevant to a degree I s'pose in Broome WA the primary school was burnt to the ground by an alleged young lady who burnt her cell to attract guards then fled and torched the school, parts of it were built in 1910 and the damage cost 5mill. really a tragic affair all round , education maybe the culprit here imo ( lack of) so the school bore the brunt.
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Dr E
Champion Joined: 05 Feb 2013 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 28563 |
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You mean in National Parks where the fuel loads were so large from the parks being locked up and denied fuel reduction for decades that they were simply impossible to control at any point and just kept on burning into the canopies of huge trees ... wake up and stop defending the obvious. You are just making it worse with every post. Tell me how the temperature changing by less than 1 degree in 140 years makes any difference to any fire? Drought, dry weather, strong winds, massive fuel load, ignition (i don't care if it is arsonists or not) ... what do you get if the temperature is 30 degrees? ... will it be any different if the temperature is 31 degrees? ... or 41 degrees?
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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!
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Tlazolteotl
Champion Joined: 02 Oct 2012 Location: Elephant Butte Status: Online Points: 31296 |
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Every time a weather extreme occurs, some people quickly jump in to say we’ve been through it all before: that worse events have happened in the past, or it’s just part of natural climate variability. The recent bushfire crisis is a case in point. Writing in The Australian recently, columnist Gerard Henderson said:
Of course, Australia has a long history of bushfires. But several factors make eastern Australia’s recent crisis different to infamous bushfires in the past. First is the enormous geographic spread of this season’s fires, and second, the absence of El Niño conditions typically associated with previous severe fires. Thirdly and most important, these fires were preceded by the hottest and driest conditions in Australian history. https://theconversation.com/some-say-weve-seen-bushfires-worse-than-this-before-but-theyre-ignoring-a-few-key-facts-129391 |
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An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.
Simon Cameron |
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Baguette
Champion Joined: 18 Dec 2012 Status: Offline Points: 3651 |
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From The Conversation ? That place has as much credibility
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Baguette
Champion Joined: 18 Dec 2012 Status: Offline Points: 3651 |
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Oops sorry!! Pressed the wrong button. I should use my phone to post. I was saying The Conversation is not the most reliable source to use .
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Online Points: 45319 |
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Hundreds
of SES calls, 15m deep sinkhole opens as storms lash state Add
to shortlist By Paul Sakkal
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Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Offline Points: 51818 |
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We have already had countless bushfire inquiries. What good will it do to have another?
By Kevin Tolhurst
Posted
A royal commission has coercive powers beyond a government inquiry, and the need for one implies there are facts and evidence that would otherwise be "hidden" to an inquiry or review. Research I've recently conducted with other fire experts has concluded there have been 57 formal public inquiries, reviews and royal commissions related to bushfires and fire management since 1939, most of which are listed here. I have given expert evidence to at least seven of them, including the 2009 Victorian Bushfires Royal Commission. That is more than one inquiry every two years in the past 80 years. Do we need yet another? Previous reviews that went nowhereSome of the recommendations of the Stretton Royal Commission following the Black Friday fires of 1939 have still not been fully implemented. Many of the recommendations of the subsequent 56 inquiries have not been fully implemented either, so it raises serious questions about whether another royal commission will offer anything new or compelling. Continues....................... |
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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acacia alba
Champion Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Location: Hunter Valley Status: Offline Points: 41243 |
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anyone been reading the reports from those locals in the area impacted by fires ? especially on the south coast of NSW. complaing about the very long, detailed, costly requirements for a permit to do clearing around your own property ? that is bounced about between the various Govnt authorities. if you havnt , you should, and then come back and tell us the greenies are as pure as the driven snow.
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animals before people.
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Baghdad Bob
Champion Joined: 10 Feb 2010 Location: Victoria Status: Online Points: 13598 |
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Exactly AA, likewise , although not in the press or in the media, I know of the same situation of property owners in Victoria having to face the same bureaucratic regulations. That reminds me of my thread about Tony Abbott coping abuse on a domestic flight.It was not reported in any media but I know of a family on board that flight who heard the bogans’ abuse and Abbott, being the man he is, laughed it off, and of course, it did not make the news and I am accused of making it up.
Give me a break, although it will not take long before SC trolls me once again. |
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Tlazolteotl
Champion Joined: 02 Oct 2012 Location: Elephant Butte Status: Online Points: 31296 |
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How the hell do the Greens make the regulations? Do they control the state government? Do they control the council? What council?
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An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.
Simon Cameron |
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Baghdad Bob
Champion Joined: 10 Feb 2010 Location: Victoria Status: Online Points: 13598 |
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To put into perspective the causes of these disastrous bushfires there are three conditions required for a bushfire..
A. Ignition source B.fuel C.hot dry conditions. If one of those three are missing, you do not get a wildfire/ bushfire. Of those three conditions, the easiest to control is the amount of fuel by regular prescribed burns, and we have failed to do this. Some argue climate change has brought about those hot dry conditions, whilst that is a valid argument , those bushfires would still not occur without A & B above. |
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Passing Through
Champion Joined: 09 Jan 2013 Location: At home Status: Offline Points: 79533 |
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Maybe Mr Morrison could release the most recent report he has hidden because it didn't suit the govt's denier narrative. It is only 18 months old.
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Tontonan
Champion Joined: 13 Oct 2007 Status: Offline Points: 3898 |
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Bloody hell. Now French Island is on fire. It has had 20mm of rain in the last week and it still catches fire.
This could be disastrous for the koalas. French Island is only accessible by ferry and virtually uninhabited (100 people at most). It is disease free for koalas and is often used to restock areas on the mainland. Poor bugger my country.
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stayer
Champion Joined: 10 Aug 2010 Status: Offline Points: 21888 |
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I actually took a 10 day "holiday" on French Island a couple of weeks ago (my missus thought it would be something different!) so this holds special interest for me. While I was there a small fire started on NYE due to lightning. It's a bit of a bleak place frankly but I feel for the koalas. Not being sarcastic. We had one living right next to our house. I'm pretty sure locals will all be fine. Seeing the fire truck on the barge was gold (if things don't get bad of course.)
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Tontonan
Champion Joined: 13 Oct 2007 Status: Offline Points: 3898 |
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10 days on French Island ? Rather you than me. I spent a day there back in the 1980's and that was enough for me. Manuka and Blue Gum and koalas. And mozzies.
The koala is actually introduced but all those blue gums are koala heaven. No chlamydia either. |
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Tlazolteotl
Champion Joined: 02 Oct 2012 Location: Elephant Butte Status: Online Points: 31296 |
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Didn't think so. Fake news.
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An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.
Simon Cameron |
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