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Fiorente At Stud |
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kavg
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Also it would be easy to put it to the test although too early as you'd have to give it another 2 years when his 1st and 2nd crops have fully matured and 3rd crop are 3yo's.
There are quite a few sires who carry Bahram such as At Talaq, Kalaglow, Anabaa and Noble Bijou. Just a matter of seeing how many of the dams carried one of these in their pedigrees and in turn seeing how many of them are winners, stakeswinners etc.
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Prejudice is an emotional attachment to ignorance.
DiEM25 for the world. |
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Gay3
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There aren't many races longer than a mile up Townsville way.
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Offline Points: 52023 |
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Either Phil or Jamie (??) interviewed y/day said his book's now full & yes, he fee will increase next year so well done to all who got the great deals this year
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Second Chance
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And good luck to Sun Stud. They very much need a new headliner with Bel Esprit aging and Magnus proving upper level bread and butter, so let's hope it's this fellow.
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Gee Gee
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Will serve 150 mares this season.
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Gee Gee
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Little Phoenix (C Waller) - through Big Game |
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Gee Gee
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Little Phoenix (C Waller) - through Big Game |
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HH88
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What is the name of the dam?
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HH88
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djebel
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Looks a perfect horse for the new ballot free race.
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reductio ad absurdum
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Gee Gee
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Fiammarosa (Danehill)
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HH88
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Big Game is a son of Bahram.
Fiorente's winners highlighted in the post carry daughters of Bahram in the dams. Trust this helps.
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HH88
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Carioca
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I have a feeling Big Game may be the sire of one of my favourites Faux Tirage , but memory may be out lol, Knave and Straight Draw come to mind.
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Mr Prospector
Champion Joined: 08 Dec 2008 Status: Offline Points: 2025 |
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Spot on Carioca
Big Game - A rich bay colt foaled on 24th January 1939, by Bahram out of Myrobellea, by Tetratema , the fourth foal of his dam . Myrobella raced 15 times for 11 wins , whilst Bahram was unbeaten on the Turf. Both his sire and dam headed the free handicap foe two year olds . He was a massively built , handsome , quality colt, with heavy shoulders and powerful quarters. race record 9 races (2 seasons) 8 wins 1 placing. Notable progeny : Combat; Faux Tirage; Makapura ( broodie sire of Biscay); Bride Elect (dam of Hethersett); Ambiguity and Queenpot. 2 years Hurstbourne Plate 5f Cranbourne Stakes 5f Salisbury Plate 5f Champagne Stakes 5f at 3 years Salisbury Stakes 7f Two Thousand Guineas 1m Champion Stakes 1m.
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TJMitchell
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Ahhh I gotcha now. Post order made me think you were talking about the filly I posted
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Carioca
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Thanks Mr Prospector, the mention of Makapura reminds me of the story he came out to OZ with the great ( or soon to be ) Star Kingdom, I have just watched a replay of the 1962 English Derby won by Larkspur ridden by Neville Selwood ( V. O'Brien) was that the Hethersett ( the fav.) that fell in the race? |
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Mr Prospector
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I'm not exactly working from memory Carioca. Big Game is a great speed influence IMHO and a magic influence if you can strengthen it in a pedigree and hence whenever i see it in a pedigree I look a bit closer .
I had to scramble for 1962 Bloodstock breeders Review for your question and yes your memory is spot on again .Hethersett fell in the derby . Reading the story four or five horses fell and Larkspur with Sellwood on board had to violently swerve to avoid the pile up .
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Carioca
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Thanks again for your response Mr P.
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Ticino
Champion Joined: 20 Oct 2008 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 4448 |
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Hello,
may I point out Big Game is to find in "Aggressor", dam Sire of Acatenango, Sire of Dalicia and dam of Animal Kingdom. He stud a few seasons in AUS. As already known Bahram appears via Espresso (by Acropolis, stood in Germany) sire of Anatvka, dam of the FS's Allegretta (Galileo) and Alya (Adlerflug) and Antuco/Mondrian/Beeshi. Espresso had a HB named King of Babylon (by King of the Tudors) sent to AUS. Btw, in 2016 a book was published about abovementioned Sire, by Peter Corbett: Bahram & the Aga Khan III, published by Rinaldo Publishing, Stowmarket, ISBN 987-0-9566642-1-1 A lot of Information, not only about his racing career, but with much info about his offspring (Sire and dams). I paid about 30 English Pounds for it. Probably hard to find in your part of the world. regards, Ticino |
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HH88
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Mannza can be added to Fiorente's list of winners who's dams carry daughters of Bahram.
In this instance there is also a daughter of Persian Gulf. A very good-looking horse was Bahram - possibly a shade on the leg, like so many god racers - and his performances were impeccable. He was far and away the best of his age at two and three years old, winning all nine races value 43,086 pounds. His success included the 2000 Guineas, the Derby and the St. Leger, and he never new defeat. He left the racecourse an absolutely sound horse and started at stud as a 4-year-old at a fee of 500 guineas a mare. As a personal opinion I would place him as near the best of my time. It was not only the easy manner in which he won his races, and it must be confessed that his generation as a whole were not particularly good, but the horse himself was such an attractive individual. Attribution: Bloodstock Breeding by Sir Charles Leicester Published by Odhams Press Limited London. 1957. Faux Tirage ( by Big Game) was mentioned earlier in the thread. He stood at Okawa Stud in Hawke's Bay and his race record follows: At two years won both starts - the Granville Stakes at Ascot and the Rous Memorial Stakes at Newmarket. Won 3 times at three years including the Newmarket Stakes, St. James Palace Stakes and ran third in the Eclipse Stakes, his only defeat. |
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HH88
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Mayor
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Mayor... I'm posting these pics on behalf of HH88.
A closer look at Stars of Carrum suggests the effective line-breeding is now one generation closer from Bahram, that is Persian Gulf. A sex balanced line breeders dream with a son and daughter of Persian Gulf plus Doubleton, his full sister. Should potentially work for both colts and fillies. Very nice trifecta. |
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Mayor
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Mayor
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Mayor.. continued, on behalf of HH88 However: |
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Mayor
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Enabled
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Surely you did not write up that lineage. |
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HH88
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A considerable amount of research is required to arrive at (in this case) the position that at this early stage a disproportionally high number of his winners to date have balanced line breeding to Bahram/Persian Gulf.
All of his winners named in the thread have been subject to the same degree of analysis as Stars of Carrum so the answer to your question is yes.
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HH88
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Ticino
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Hello,
I dont't want tp praise myself, I pointed to the "triple" of linebreeding in the ped of "Stars of Carrum" about a fortnight ago. Interestingly "Kalaglow" is the Sire of "Sternkönig" in Germany, from the same damline as Star Appeal. I i remember corretly, he was sent to Germany, but died pretty soon afterwards, Standaan (Zeddaan), I spot in some peds, belongs to the same damline, more descents are Meld and Charlottown, Declan's Moon, Ramonti, Montmartre regards. Ticino
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linghi11
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I have a mare with 4 strains of Bahram, she’s in foal now but I may give her a whirl with Fiorente next year if this trend continues.
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to the victor
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HH88
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The trend continues with Piemonte winning yesterday.
Balanced line breeding to a male and female strain of Persian Gulf.
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HH88
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kavg
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Way too early to tell regarding this 'trend'.
The only horse that has put his hand up as above average is Stars of Carrum. There are quite a few horses with Bahram or Persian Gulf that are not winners or even placegetters. It is all about opportunity and how many have the cross and then how many win or are stakeswinners. I would say that we'd have to wait till the end of the current crop of 3yo's finish their 4yo season before we can have a large enough sample of winners or stakeswinners to make an assumption.
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Prejudice is an emotional attachment to ignorance.
DiEM25 for the world. |
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djebel
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Alessandro is one you have forgotten Kavg.
Another one to keep an eye out for is the Waterhorse trained Fiorentino.
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reductio ad absurdum
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furious
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Lots of inbreeding to Northern Dancer due to the way of bloodlines today also. Many never win. But maybe the tail female line is also important don't you think.
Piemonte is one of a couple of Fiorente's I marked to follow. From the female line of Street Cry and from a Canny Lad mare it seemed a nice mix. A Darshaan f x m and Konigsstuhl over a line of Sadler's Wells in the female. Danzig/Bletchingly cross. Plenty of catches so the hope one comes through. Hopefully he can go on with the job.
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kavg
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I haven't forgotten Alessandro djebel but he has yet to prove himself and that is why I would wait another season and a half before seeing a trend.
There are many others who can't run or haven't had a run yet that have the 'trend' and we can not overlook that fact. And as Furious mentioned piemonte is from tail female of street cry. I also notice Mannza has Street cry as broodmare sire. Could street cry be a trend? Street cry has good stats with sadlers wells family and fiorente tail female is same as sadlers. Or could it be troy that is the key who appears in street cry and fiorente? Or could it be riverman that is the key? He appears in street cry but also anabaa the damsire of stars of carrum. Riverman's sire is never bend who appears twice in pedigree of desert bloom the dam of fiorente. Riverman/never bend/lalun look more of a key to my eye. |
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Prejudice is an emotional attachment to ignorance.
DiEM25 for the world. |
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