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John McNair.
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That's so unfair on John McNair and an insult to his great work on getting Hay List back from death's door to giving Black Caviar a scare in the Lightning. An absolute insult. He is perfectly within his rights to comment on the weight given to his horse, which I also believe was excessive. The more trainers who voice their opinions, the better. What sort of world it would be if you can't make a civil protest.
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Mayor, nobody doubts his ability as a horseman.  Trouble is you can't believe too much that comes out of his mouth.  Its not like he intentionally misleads people.  He's just constantly changing his mind, sometimes even mid sentence.
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i think thats pretty harsh on McNair, it does seem the owners have changed their minds and pushed McNair into the Newmarket. 

i think the owners will look pretty silly if they get beat - giving 8kg to foxwedge is a tough ask

i like that McNair said he wants to stay in Sydney, why should we pressure Sydney horses to race down there, i would have loved to see the big fella go around at the farm on chipping norton day. 

now its a shame for the ATC could have seen Pinker Pinker and Hay List around on the same day would have been a great result for south-west sydney
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This story reminds of a kid who gets out, spits the dummy and takes his bat and ball and cries home. McNair is a very poor loser.

As Lordy said, as a horseman he may be one of the best in the country, but the Davenport's should ban him from the media.
 
58.5 for Hay List is a perfectly reasonable weight in my opinion considering what Caviar carried last year. If he is good enough he will win.......if not he loses but so what, he would not lose one admirer for taking on the top races like all champs.
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Originally posted by Lordy Lordy wrote:

Mayor, nobody doubts his ability as a horseman.  Trouble is you can't believe too much that comes out of his mouth.  Its not like he intentionally misleads people.  He's just constantly changing his mind, sometimes even mid sentence.

With the statement today, is it a case of McNair trying to keep up with what Davenports are doing and trying to look like he is the one in control? Not a good position for the trainer to be in and explains a lot of conflicting statements
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58.5kg is on the money for weight.  I was surprised initially to hear his strong objections.  Pretty much all the horses are accurately weighted.  Some are just more suited under the handicap conditions than others.
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I don't necessarily agree with Steve's comments, or perhaps how harsh they are, but he has a point.

He's whinging that Black Caviar is too close to Hay List at the weights - on their WFA clashes, he would be meeting her 5kg better! That's about right given how far he's been beaten by her!
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Harsh on McNair? Read the quotes in today's paper from him. Totally irrational.

Everyone is obsessed with Foxwedge's weight. Why shouldn't he get a light weight. He won one half decent race and he fell in against Masthead.
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Foxwedge is 100% accurately weighted based on performane to date. He can't be given more for what people believe he's capable of. Let him do it first and then he can earn the extra.
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Originally posted by andynr123 andynr123 wrote:

As Steve Meakes (@ourmaizcay) so eloquently pointed out on Twitter - the only person with bigger credibility issues than our federal pollies at the moment is now John McNair!


I dont agree with that. I am sure John McNair is very sincere in his thoughts on the situation.
reductio ad absurdum
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Originally posted by princerubiton princerubiton wrote:

Harsh on McNair? Read the quotes in today's paper from him. Totally irrational.

Everyone is obsessed with Foxwedge's weight. Why shouldn't he get a light weight. He won one half decent race and he fell in against Masthead.


His form and ratings suggest he should be giving weight to the other 3yos in the race.

There is no way he should be on level weights with the likes of -
32 AFRICAN PULSE Michael Moroney 34 50kg
91
33 CELEBRITY GIRL Mark Kavanagh 32= 50kg
94
34 DECIRCLES Danny O'Brien 36 50kg
82
35 EMERALD DOWNS Anthony Cummings 37 50kg
76
36 FOXWEDGE John O'Shea 21 50kg
104
37 MISS STELLABELLE Mark Kavanagh 35 50kg
86
38 RIFLEMAN David Hayes 39 50kg
70
39 UNIQUE QUALITY Frankie Stockdale 38 50kg
72

Disgraceful weights.

African Pulse, Celbrity Girl, Decircles, and Miss Stellabelle deserve to get weight from Foxwedge, the 3 do not deserve a spot in the race.
reductio ad absurdum
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Armchair trainers...ROFL..what next armchair strappers..!!

Fair Dinkum give the guy a break he is probably being pulled in every direction by multiple imbeciles using circular logic wrapped up in bulldust...it must be a nightmare having a talented horse in training here, what with all the media and kooky owners wanting to tell you what to do every other day..then the genius minds on various forums..!!

Of all the owners in Australia could you imagine any kookier than the Davenports..seriously.
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Its seems to me the Davenports make plenty of sensible decisions when it comes to Hay List.
reductio ad absurdum
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Originally posted by Lordy Lordy wrote:

58.5kg is on the money for weight.  I was surprised initially to hear his strong objections.  Pretty much all the horses are accurately weighted.  Some are just more suited under the handicap conditions than others.
Agree ..don't forget BC carried 58Kg last year giving Crystal lilly 8kg and Beaded 5.5kg and she is a mere mare who did it with ease!Wink
The More You Put On, The More You Get Back
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Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Its seems to me the Davenports make plenty of sensible decisions when it comes to Hay List.



Chasing home BC half a dozen times and giving Foxwedge a large bag of spuds in the Newmarket does not constitute sensible decision making imo.
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No trainer runs away from ONE horse.
reductio ad absurdum
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Originally posted by Quezacotl Quezacotl wrote:

Armchair trainers...ROFL..what next armchair strappers..!!

Fair Dinkum give the guy a break he is probably being pulled in every direction by multiple imbeciles using circular logic wrapped up in bulldust...it must be a nightmare having a talented horse in training here, what with all the media and kooky owners wanting to tell you what to do every other day..then the genius minds on various forums..!!

Of all the owners in Australia could you imagine any kookier than the Davenports..seriously.
??? Yeah, must be a real nightmare training a superstar horse earning big $$ for a low profile trainer.
 
End of the day, McNair is VERY lucky he was even chosen to start with. He should pull his head in and start behaving like a professional trainer. He is employed by his clients, or has that part escaped you Quez?
 
ps: Many less tolerant owners would have given McNair the flick already.
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Oh really...pray tell why should any owners take the horse off him..and who should it go to..?
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Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by princerubiton princerubiton wrote:

Harsh on McNair? Read the quotes in today's paper from him. Totally irrational.

Everyone is obsessed with Foxwedge's weight. Why shouldn't he get a light weight. He won one half decent race and he fell in against Masthead.


His form and ratings suggest he should be giving weight to the other 3yos in the race.
There is no way he should be on level weights with the likes of -
32 AFRICAN PULSE Michael Moroney 34 50kg
91
33 CELEBRITY GIRL Mark Kavanagh 32= 50kg
94
34 DECIRCLES Danny O'Brien 36 50kg
82
35 EMERALD DOWNS Anthony Cummings 37 50kg
76
36 FOXWEDGE John O'Shea 21 50kg
104
37 MISS STELLABELLE Mark Kavanagh 35 50kg
86
38 RIFLEMAN David Hayes 39 50kg
70
39 UNIQUE QUALITY Frankie Stockdale 38 50kg
72

Disgraceful weights.

African Pulse, Celbrity Girl, Decircles, and Miss Stellabelle deserve to get weight from Foxwedge, the 3 do not deserve a spot in the race.


Gives the lie to what someone wrote on the Newmarket thread about weights not being compressed near the bottom. They are almost always compressed at the bottom end in the big handicaps and "anomalies" like this are common.
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Originally posted by Blind Faith Blind Faith wrote:


Gives the lie to what someone wrote on the Newmarket thread about weights not being compressed near the bottom. They are almost always compressed at the bottom end in the big handicaps and "anomalies" like this are common.


Even if given 52 kgs he gets in well against Hay List and Buffering. If Sepoy was in the race Sepoy would have 57 kgs and at 52 kgs he meets that horse 5 kgs better for being beaten a lip in the AscotVale stakes. 5 kgs would represent the worst performance of Foxwedges career in the Slipper beaten 5 lengths by Sepoy.

There is no doubt in my mind Foxwedge should have got 52 kgs, His rating should not be 104.
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John McNair was brought up tough. 

Any derogatory comments mean little,he's laughing all the way to the bank.

Great trainer who learnt his craft from a WIZ of the WA TURF,Colin France(aka daddy-o) 


I love backing his horses. Into his psyche.

He sets up wins for owners who like to punt. 
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Not one other trainer in oz could still have Mustard racing..fact.

Prince, he's using the challenge stakes to mirror last years preps into the all aged and TJ...the TJ IS the GF target..
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Lets see if he is laughing all the way to the bank if the Davenport's take the horse off him as they have already threatened once.
 
No other trainer would have mustard still running, so its a pointless "fact" Quez. They would instead give the old boy a deserved retirement, not use him a novelty to keep the trianers name in the paper. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Feb 2012 at 12:48pm
Gee Chris B hope you dont ever have a horse with some of the top trainers B Cummings, M Price or M Moroney they will soon tell you where to go if you try and give them advice. Owner's pay the bills but does that give them the right to tell the trainer how to train the horse??? If you wont to do both take out a trainers license
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Originally posted by gcg84 gcg84 wrote:

Gee Chris B hope you dont ever have a horse with some of the top trainers B Cummings, M Price or M Moroney they will soon tell you where to go if you try and give them advice. Owner's pay the bills but does that give them the right to tell the trainer how to train the horse??? If you wont to do both take out a trainers license


Training a horse and racing/placing a horse are two different things. Trainers train and get them fit on the training track, owners pick and choose what races they want to run in.

It is the owners prerogative to take the trainers advise on where to race. If Hay List was with any big name trainer it would still be the owner picking the races and so it should be.
reductio ad absurdum
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Thank you Djebel, I agree entirely.
 
GCG, owners may as well drop the horse off to train and then vanish I guess? I mean, they only keep the trainer in business by paying all the bills so why would they have any say in what race sit goes in??? Surely you cant be serious!  Tongue
 
 
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well djebel I am sure that is how it works in fantasy world but I doubt if 20% of owners get to pick what races their horses run in. I have never met the bloke but anyone would tell you if you wanted Bart to train your horse you kept your mouth shut..... and I know a couple of trainers that still believe that is the way it should be. But if you dont like it you can always change your trainer
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Originally posted by gcg84 gcg84 wrote:

well djebel I am sure that is how it works in fantasy world but I doubt if 20% of owners get to pick what races their horses run in. I have never met the bloke but anyone would tell you if you wanted Bart to train your horse you kept your mouth shut..... and I know a couple of trainers that still believe that is the way it should be. But if you dont like it you can always change your trainer
I dont agree. My family is part of a Syndicate that has had various trainers (including Smerdon in Vic)- at all times various short and long term options were worked out, and the owners decided which way to go - trainer would give their recommendation, nothing more.
 
If Bart chose to do that, good luck to him. Maybe you can afford to be that controlling when you are a legend of the turf and know you have horses constantly thrown your way..............but McNair and other trainers aren't Bart Cummings.
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Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by gcg84 gcg84 wrote:

Gee Chris B hope you dont ever have a horse with some of the top trainers B Cummings, M Price or M Moroney they will soon tell you where to go if you try and give them advice. Owner's pay the bills but does that give them the right to tell the trainer how to train the horse??? If you wont to do both take out a trainers license


Training a horse and racing/placing a horse are two different things. Trainers train and get them fit on the training track, owners pick and choose what races they want to run in.

It is the owners prerogative to take the trainers advise on where to race. If Hay List was with any big name trainer it would still be the owner picking the races and so it should be.




Best of luck with that theoryLOL
I know for a fact it wouldn't wash with one M Kavanagh
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Nor would it wash with one J Denham...owners buy horse's, they give them to trainers to train..train means place them and look after their entire race programs...when owners start gabbing off about how to place or train..time to sling their hooks and get themselves a training licence.

ChrisB couldn't train a bunny to hop I don't reckon..!!
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