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Dementia

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stayer View Drop Down
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    Posted: 05 Mar 2023 at 7:42pm
Ok so my thread about my cat dying was a great help to me, so putting one out there about poor old Dad. Doing it in "General" because I don't want any political gelati.

Dad has lost it with dementia. Found by neighbors in a gutter last night after a midnight stroll.

Help please! What can I do? Does anyone out there have experience with it?
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Mum is certainly down that road.  She can be perfectly sound and then she's talking to someone who isn't there etc.  We never know which one will be there from day to day but behind it all is the person we all love. 

Just remember who he is.  It's hard to see them loosing so much as we loose it also.  But just keep loving him.  He's still your Dad but he will need extra care.  Mum is home because me sister can care for her.  And when she broke he leg and went in to hospital and rehab she really did loose it.  We bought her back piece by piece but she has gone downhill again in the last few months.

My husbands father had to go into care as his wife couldn't care for him at home.  But she visited him every day - that was only because my husband had been retrenched so he drove from Emu Plains to Gosford every day to take her. 

So yes its going to be hard to decide what is best for your father.  But see what he needs.  Where he can still be happy as he can be and what ever you decide know that you won't know from day to day what challenge will come up next.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2023 at 8:16pm
Mum had dementia.  We had never had any experience with it , and it came on slowly, so we were slow to twig what was happening.   To tell you the entire dramas we went thru would take me all night.  She was alone in her own home in Sydney and we are up the valley. 2.30 to 3 hour drive.  My cousins did a top job trying their best with her and we would go down every Friday afternoon and home Sunday for the last year she was at home.   But it all came to a head when she locked herself outside one night and scratched herself to bits clambering around in rose bushes.  In the end we had to get an ACAT mob in and they assessed her and she went to a dementia specific ward at Auburn Hospital for 2 months while they did more assessments, and tried different meds to see if anything helped. In the end my cousin sourced homes and he and I went round looking at them.  OMG.  OMG.  Some of them you would not put your worst enemy in.
Anyway, because she had never signed a power of attorney before she lost the plot, we all had to go before the Guardianship Tribunal.  I have heard some horror tales about them but all I can say is, they were wonderful to us. Spoke to Mum so kindly.  Listened to us. Made my cousin and I joint guardians.
In the end we found a dementia specific home at Parramatta.  It was church run but cant remember which church. Not religious tho.  Only about 30 residents and ,,as far as homes go,,a really good , kind, caring place. 
Mum only lived 12 months after she went in.  She went very quickly due to a tumour on her liver ( never drank in her life ) that we opted not to have surgery for and the Drs agreed.
You just cant leave them alone by themselves in their home.  Either get carers in if the family can afford it, or get him assessed and search for a home. 
Mum set the kitchen cupboards on fire. Lucky her and the house didnt go up.  Its too dangerous for them. Especially now.  This was approx 24/5 years ago and she used to sit on the front steps , and neighbours were worried about the various people who used to stop and talk to her.  Heaven knows what might happen now.
Start looking for a home sooner than later as it takes ages to find a decent one,,or get his name on a list.  If you get ACAT in they can assist with lists of places to look.
Not sure what to tell you,,,,but You can always PM me if you prefer to keep it private.
Its horrible and devastating. 
animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TJMitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2023 at 8:20pm
Currently dealing with it with my Grandma albeit at a earlier stage. We recently went through it with my uncle as well, now deceased.

It almost sounds like a cop out but it gets to a stage, which it sounds like it has, that the best course of action for all concerned is a home. It's a safer option for the sufferer and as "wrong" or "selfish" as it may sound it's a better option for you and family.

My uncle stayed at home with my aunt for as long as possible. We'd rotate staying there sometimes if she needed a break so to speak. It was ok for a while but it finally got to the stage where he'd wander off looking for the cat or taking the dog to the park and honestly at that stage it just isn't possible to give them the 24/7 care that they generally need.

As much as it may hurt or feel like you're 'passing off responsibility' for lack of a better term it really will be beneficial to all involved.

I hope he's doing ok. Same to you and the family.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2023 at 10:20pm
As TJ says.  Its 24/7 one on one care once they deteriorate.  I couldnt do it.  I was never cut out to be a nurse.  I cant handle sick people at all.  And Mum became a full on care package.  I didnt have it in me, much to my shame, to change nappies etc.  What made it worse for me , was my Mum was always a nurse type person caring for others, and I couldnt do it for her. She nursed her Mum, who lived with us for years and died at 94.  She nursed my Dad thru cancer, and her sister thru heart attacks.
She was a tough old bushie lived thru the depression etc.   To see her like that cracked me up.
But , not knowing exactly your and his circumstances, you have to get care for him. 
He cant stay home alone any more.  And unless you can be there 24/7, he cant move in with you.
Get an ACAT assessment and rely on them to point you in the right direction. 
But dont leave him home alone.   There in lies disaster.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brudder_A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2023 at 11:00pm
I understand how hard this situation as it is prevalent in my mother's side of the family.
The women on this side of the genealogical line has clearly traits of dementia as the aged. The good weather here in Australia has allowed this line to live much longer than they would have done in Poland, USSR or today's Ukraine.

Great-grandmother made it to 96 and in the last years she gave my grandmother fits. Her wanderings and falls recorded broken hips and limbs. And she was left on my grandmother's doorstep because her son and family could not "cope"!. Although my grandmother was of sound mind her daughter's - all now in their 80+s are clearly on the road to living with dementia.

My mother is still holding on, but she is fretting that that plague will hit her and is scared rotten that my sister will institutionalize her. Mum's younger sister has it and finally her son (my cousin) has taken action and moved her from Adelaide to Melbourne to be under his supervision in a nursing home (24/7). My sister was REAL, REAL HAPPY that this finally happened. Yes he can afford it, which is lucky but some of her behaviour has made them cringe (and our family polarized) over the last years as her well-being deteriorated.

Time is a killer...

But there is no greater wisdom that comes from someone who has aged gracefully.




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Meant to post this last night but didn’t get around to it. I can’t speak from personal experience but can give two examples of family and friends. 

- One, the mother went downhill as they all do. The father was determined to keep her at home where they had lived together all their lives. Totally understandable when you think about it, why would you want to take her away from a place where they had built so many memories over so many years? But it came to a point where it was almost impossible to take care of her. The father persevered though for 4 or 5 years until she passed away. The experience nearly broke him mentally forever. It was only a couple of years after she passed that he was able to return to something of his normal self. 


- Second, the father had it and went downhill as they all do. When it became obviously that they needed help the family put him in a home to get professional care and while it was still a heartbreaking situation to see a loved one deteriorate like that, they at least were able to keep some level of sanity themselves.


I don’t envy you at all Stayer, it must be an incredibly hard situation and whatever decision you make will be very tough either way. Like I said, I don’t have personal experience but if it were me I would be looking for some professional care in a facility that specialises in dementia. The above to examples of friends experiences hopefully help. 

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Its a very personal decision Stayer. There is no right or wrong answer

Slightly different - but similar decision making. My mum died horrifically from Bowell cancer across a 2 year period. Quickly travelled to her brain which made her confused / not with it - to the point it didn't seem she recognized anyone. Dad committed to keeping her at home until she eventually passed. Extremely tough on him - physically & mentally. For his sake we (kids) tried to have mum put into a palliative care residence. He wouldn't even entertain the idea. 

When all was said & done - Dad lived another 13 years of quality life (punted his arse off LOL - real character)

He looked back on his efforts to keep mum at home over those few years very proudly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jujuno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2023 at 9:47am
 I went through it for five years, with my cousin, who was actually like a brother. It gets to a point where you have no choice but to put the person into care...for their own safety. 

 I had to go before QCAT to get help because he was already past signing anything. In the time before they took him into a home, he fell off a balcony at his home and nearly killed himself. In hospital, he threw massive tantrums, insisting he was capable of going home...which he wasn't. 

 You just have to bite the bullet and do what is right. Care homes know how to deal with the issues they face. 

 A friend of mine is now dealing with her husband rapidly deteriorating. She refuses to put him in care...and it is destroying her.  You can only do so much before you have to get help.

 I'm eternally glad my mother was compos mentis to the end. It would have destroyed me to see her lose control.

 Our hearts are with you, Stayer. It's not bloody easy.

 Hug  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2023 at 6:19pm
Thanks everyone. Mum was taken by ambulance to hospital today so I'll be staying with dad. Frankly it's torture but I'm trying to be patient. He keeps asking me if I've spoken to his father today. His father died about 60 years ago. 😥
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brudder_A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2023 at 6:28pm
My mother's sister (who lives in St. Kilda) has had a couple of mild insults and this has not helped her memory and as she has aged she has become more and more forgetful - especially of the short memory.

However, she is very clear in the mind of how she was as a child in Germany in the DP camps after the war, the post war move to Australia and early years that she developed 1950s - 60s. All telephone calls with my mother usually have some discussion from that period to their early years in Australia. And then its a blank.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TJMitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2023 at 6:30pm
Oh man the questions. The questions. You feel bad when a little bit of frustration kicks in but I can only be asked the same thing so many times.
Time is a flat circle
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2023 at 6:32pm
Yes Stayer Mum is often going home to her Mum and Dad or having her brother over.  All long gone.  She can't wonder like your Dad as her mobility has been restricted after her fall but she can still amaze us with where she can get to in very short time if you go to do something outside the house!  I hope your mother hasn't had a bad turn worrying about your Dad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 2023 at 2:28pm
They can all remember things that were important to them 50/60 years ago.  Parents. Siblings. Home. School friends.  But cant remember 5 mins ago.  Thats part of it, and as mean as it is to say it, it drives you nuts.
Mum didnt know who I was the last few months.  But she clearly knew my OH.  She preferred talking to him and ignored me. ( Prolly because he was a very patient person with her, and I wasnt so good. Cry ).
She just talked about her Dad, who she adored, and the tiny country village she grew up in out west.. Over and over ,,,,,day after day.  Hour after hour.  Thats part of it Stayer.  You just have to tune out, and nod or mumble every so often.  Its all you can do, really.
I hope things are OK with your Mum ?  Surely she cant go back to looking after him now ?
Ask his GP to arrange for ACAT and go from there.  My Mum was adamant she could live alone so they ttook her home with a lady with her , and after being there one day they took her back to care.
Its a hard thing and you feel so mean and guilty, but what can you do ? They cant stay alone and even if you brought him to live with you, you still cant be there 24/7 and as soon as your back is turned things go wrong.
Its a terrible thing , this dementia/alzheimers .

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jujuno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 2023 at 3:01pm
 I used to cry for three hours after being with Will-yum, in the nursing home. Partially guilt at having to put him there, but mostly because it is so heartbreaking to watch them deteriorate. When he couldn't speak he would stare at me with eyes that clearly said he wanted to be put out of his misery.

 He even muttered 'shoot me' a few times. 

 I wish I could have done it. So cruel to see someone die without control of their mind and body.

 Cry  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brudder_A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 2023 at 5:01pm
Yesterday, my mother called me in a panic....
She, wanted to go the bank (IMMEDIATELY!) because she thought she lost her CreditUnionBankBook and some other papers and a couple of hundred$ when paying the bills last Friday. Yes, still pays them and it must be in cash. Ok, Fair enuff...

It was  P A N I C.

I had to talk to her in a calming fashion. Like,  "It's going to be alright. You have your EFTPOS card. Right?, "Yes".  OK. So all is not lost. We'll talk at the bank. Relax..."

"It could be in the car....", she sez.  Since I'm using her car every once in a while I was told immediately to go and start looking for it...

Like its in the dimly lighted carpark and I cannot see sh*t.

Called her and said I'll bring the car over in 1 hour and we'll go to the bank...

I bring the car over to her place and she's all flustered. She starts going through the car. All the places which I would never consider. Of course she finds it hidden in some special cavity.

Another blood pressure raising experience lived thru. Waiting for the next one.

She saved this money and now she's having trouble controlling it! Let's not start discussing about who deserves what!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brudder_A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 2023 at 5:12pm
Filing up an Advance Care Directive Form and also Enduring Power of Attorney...

We are at that stage now....

The wicket is deteriorating as we head into stumps...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 2023 at 11:34am
Get the P O A done ASAP Brudder.  We, ( well, Mum, ) dithered too long, worried that we ( me ) might spend all ( her little savings ) her money, and by the time she agreed she was too far along for anyone to accept her signing anything, so off to the guardianship tribunal. 
Like JJ said.  For a year we went to Sydney each weekend and spent time with her in the home. Home Sunday night and it would take me  until Tuesday to settle down and come out of stress mode, then Thursday I would start working myself up again for Fri or Sat at the home.  Guilt partly I know. But seeing her like that was terrible.
If I could have done for her what I had to do for the old cat, I would have.
Peoople who have never been thru it think you are so bad to say that, but OMG, it was devastating to see her like that, and I know she never wanted to end her days in that state.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2023 at 6:55am
Heart attack might get me. Stroke might get me. Cancer might get me. Shark might get me. Dementia - never. Plenty of advance notice to pull the plug.

Why do people wait?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2023 at 8:00am
Think that decision Tlazz may not be as easy as you make it sound when the time comes. 

For example, i am becoming more restricted as the years progress. Cant do many of the things i used to do when younger. Also have the aches / pains / bumps that come with all that. So you adjust. I would think this "adjusting" process continues - so that line of giving up life altogether would be very blurred i suspect.

Would also be the case - maybe even more so - for those that care for you. Like family.
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At what point do you “pull the plug”? Certainly not while your mental faculties are still good. Suspect that when it comes time to “pull the plug” you would already be too far gone to be able to do it. If we’re talking euthanasia (when that’s more widely allowed) we’re talking at the point where you wouldn’t be allowed to make that decision yourself. It would be up to others. Family, doctors etc. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2023 at 9:30am
Starting at 100, repeatedly subtract 7.Tongue

Spell “world” backward.Confused
Manners are of more importance than laws

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2023 at 10:59am
By the time its to the point where you should pull the plug, its too late, because you have gone past realising you are on a down ward slide.  We just thought Mum was getting more difficult as she got older, as a lot of people do, and Mum had always been strong willed and could be difficult when she wanted to be.  It comes on everyone in different ways, and if you havnt been around anyone with it, or witnessed it before, its hard to pick at first.
Lots of oldies get forgetful, or difficult, but it doesnt mean they are getting D.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brudder_A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2023 at 2:38pm
aa: the two documents have been signed. There are a couple of other nuances that need to be worked out. In particular the plot of land at the cemetery where she wants to be laid. Also she has given my sister living rights in the house where she currently live and also when she has passed away. But that needs to be clearly written and amended as part of the will and that there is no contest amongst the siblings who may want to sell the next day after RIP.

Looking down this barrel ...   And wandering if sanity will last.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jujuno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2023 at 5:13pm
Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

Starting at 100, repeatedly subtract 7.Tongue

Spell “world” backward.Confused

 haha...at 96, my mother was thought to have had a mini stroke. In hospital they asked her to count backwards from one hundred, by sevens. 

 She did it so fast they discharged her that day. 

 She also answered all the other questions faster than zoom top.

 Colon fissures got her in the end, at 98, brain still intact.

 

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jujuno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2023 at 5:16pm
Originally posted by Brudder_A Brudder_A wrote:

aa: the two documents have been signed. There are a couple of other nuances that need to be worked out. In particular the plot of land at the cemetery where she wants to be laid. Also she has given my sister living rights in the house where she currently live and also when she has passed away. But that needs to be clearly written and amended as part of the will and that there is no contest amongst the siblings who may want to sell the next day after RIP.

Looking down this barrel ...   And wandering if sanity will last.



 Hmmm. Seen that contested a few times. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jujuno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2023 at 5:18pm
Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

Heart attack might get me. Stroke might get me. Cancer might get me. Shark might get me. Dementia - never. Plenty of advance notice to pull the plug.

Why do people wait?

 I always thought a stroke would cause my demise. Or that shark you mentioned.

 I could be very wrong.

 Ouch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2023 at 5:42pm
Haven't followed the thread, so can I ask if there's an established clinical link between dementia and alcoholism?  No smart ass comments please.
Ask because a long term friend now has dementia and is in care.  Due to the tyranny of distance last spent time with him about 9 years ago and his mind was spot on. He'd never ever been a drinker and wasn't at all seriously overweight.
Then a divorce when in his late 60's which couldn't have gone real well, as I'm told that just five short years later he'd become a chronic alcoholic Type 2 diabetes person with Alzheimer's disease which soon degenerated into dementia.
Any comments welcome.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2023 at 5:59pm
Mum has never drunk in her life but then again the doctors also think she could be having mini strokes.
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