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    Posted: 29 May 2023 at 11:00am
gday Guys, My Mum is looking to breed this mare to sell the progeny.. she is a Dundeel Mare and currently in foal to Hallowed Crown. Just wondering if you had some suggestions up to 22 grand. I am not sure what direction to go with Dundeel as he is relatively new from a breeding perspective. cheers Slowdown
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sorry Guys, budget dramatically reduced. more like $8800 down. mares  name is Stick 'em up. I am wondering if she is commercial? no offence taken if not. Cheers Slowdown.
The Spirit of Zero resuming. Raymond(Midnight) Resuming next week. Lulu (Rising) spelling. Alli - Spelling. Jeffrey spelling. Ambi Boo spelling. Sh'bourne Angel spelling.
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Slowdown I believe the mare is only borderline commercial.

Her dam has two new winners so she’s now produced 5 minor winners.  Which means a yearling offered out of Stick ‘em Up will most likely have no black type until the 3rd remove.   That being the case that yearling by a $8,800 stallion might not be hugely sought after.

Perversely and for what it’s worth she matches up extremely well with your Tassie stallion Needs Further.

If he’s out of the question I’d be inclined to go with a first season stallion with a bit of push behind him, and Diatonic at Yulong might fit the bill if you can get him at the right price.

Over to others.
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She is absolutely commercial, Fantastic pedigree.


  STICK 'EM UP (AUS) Bay filly 2016  
Dundeel
Bay 2009		 High Chaparral
Bay 1999		 Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981		 Northern Dancer
Bay 1961		 Nearctic
Natalma		 1954
1957		 14-c
2-d
Fairy Bridge
Bay 1975		 Bold Reason
Special		 1968
1969		 19-b
5-h
Kasora
Brown 1993		 Darshaan
Brown 1981		 Shirley Heights
Delsy		 1975
1972		 1-l
13-c
Kozana
Brown 1982		 Kris
Koblenza		 1976
1966		 2-o
1-n
Stareel
Bay 2000		 Zabeel
Bay 1986		 Sir Tristram
Bay 1971		 Sir Ivor
Isolt		 1965
1961		 8-g
6-e
Lady Giselle
Bay 1982		 Nureyev
Valderna		 1977
1972		 5-h
16-c
Staring
Bay 1988		 Fiesta Star
Chestnut 1979		 Luskin Star
Very Merry		 1974
1963		 2-e
1-n
Sweet Violet
Bay 1981		 In the Purple
Sugar Doll		 1966
1975		 11-d
22-b
Shoot Fer Love
Brown 2008		 Ferocity
Grey 2002		 Lion Hunter
Grey 1992		 Danehill
Bay 1986		 Danzig
Razyana		 1977
1981		 7-a
2-d
Pure of Heart
Grey 1978		 Godswalk
Audrey Joan		 1974
1963		 2-h
10-c
Chiara
Bay 1994		 Last Tycoon
Bay or brown 1983		 Try My Best
Mill Princess		 1975
1977		 8-f
8-c
Etoile d'Or
Chestnut 1983		 Diplomatic Star
Marchwill		 1977
1976		 22-b
13-b
Pentamerous
Bay 2000		 Pentire
Bay 1992		 Be My Guest
Chestnut 1974		 Northern Dancer
What a Treat		 1961
1962		 2-d
8-c
Gull Nook
Bay 1983		 Mill Reef
Bempton		 1968
1976		 22-d
1-l
Johnny Loves Jazz
Brown 1988		 Virginia Privateer
Bay 1982		 Majestic Prince
Virginia Reef		 1966
1977		 4-d
6-e
Jazz Concert
Brown 1979		 Duke Ellington
Francella		 1973
1972		 6-b
14-c
  Ancestor duplications: Northern Dancer 4m x 5m
reductio ad absurdum
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  FRANCELLA (GB) Bay filly 1972  
Le Levanstell
Bay 1957		 Le Lavandou
Bay 1944		 Djebel
Bay 1937		 Tourbillon
Bay 1928		 Ksar
Durban		 1918
1918		 3-n
13-c
Loika
Chestnut 1926		 Gay Crusader
Coeur a Coeur		 1914
1921		 1-g
5-j
Lavande
Brown 1936		 Rustom Pasha
Bay 1927		 Son-In-Law
Cos		 1911
1920		 5-d
2-n
Livadia
Bay 1927		 Epinard
Lady Kroon		 1920
1919		 4-i
4-p
Stella's Sister
Chestnut 1950		 Ballyogan
Chestnut 1939		 Fair Trial
Chestnut 1932		 Fairway
Lady Juror		 1925
1919		 13-e
9-c
Serial
Grey 1932		 Solario
Booktalk		 1922
1926		 26>
2-s
My Aid
Chestnut 1933		 Knight of the Garter
Bay 1921		 Son-In-Law
Castelline		 1911
1908		 5-d
4-d
Flying Aid
Bay 1918		 Flying Orb
Aideen		 1911
1899		 22-a
7-e
Franconia
Chestnut 1963		 Charlottesville
Bay 1957		 Prince Chevalier
Bay 1943		 Prince Rose
Bay 1928		 Rose Prince
Indolence		 1919
1920		 11-e
10-c
Chevalerie
Bay 1933		 Abbot's Speed
Kassala		 1923
1926		 22-b
9-f
Noorani
Chestnut 1950		 Nearco
Brown 1935		 Pharos
Nogara		 1920
1928		 13-e
4-r
Empire Glory
Bay 1933		 Singapore
Skyglory		 1927
1922		 8-c
14-a
Donna Lydia
Chestnut 1954		 Hyperion
Chestnut 1930		 Gainsborough
Bay 1915		 Bayardo
Rosedrop		 1906
1907		 10-a
2-n
Selene
Bay 1919		 Chaucer
Serenissima		 1900
1913		 1-g
6-e
Donatella
Chestnut 1939		 Mahmoud
Grey 1933		 Blenheim
Mah Mahal		 1927
1928		 1-e
9-c
Delleana
Chestnut 1925		 Clarissimus
Duccia di Buoninsegna		 1913
1920		 2-s
14-c
  Ancestor duplications: Son-In-Law 5m,5m x
reductio ad absurdum
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Your not going to find a first seasons stallion around the $8,800 in NSW I don't think Slowdown.  It's a great female line going back to Pretty Polly and not that far back to Shoot Out who was outstanding.  But Dundeel is also a son of High Chaparral so you need to look further afield.

If she wants to breed one from a stallion in this range it will probably have to be a breed to race.  One boy who is  cheap but did have speed enough to finish 5th in the slipper and win a Silver Slipper was Time to Reign a 1/2 brother to She will Reign.  He does have some good blood but he did also have issues but most stallions in this price range will have this problem also he is a tad over the 8,800 but hopefully can be got into a tad cheaper.


Unnamed  
Time to Reign (AUS)
Bay 2016		Time for War
Bay 2011		Snitzel
Bay 2002		Redoute's Choice
Bay 1996		Danehill
Shantha's Choice		1986
1992		2-d
8-f
Snippets' Lass
Bay 1993		Snippets
Snow Finch		1984
1984		20-a
2-c
Lady Zabelia
Bay 2003		Zabeel
Bay 1986		Sir Tristram
Lady Giselle		1971
1982		6-e
16-c
Miss Power Bird
Bay 1997		Mukaddamah
Miss Priority		1988
1991		13-c
6-e
Courgette
Bay or brown 2007		Charge Forward
Bay 2001		Red Ransom
Bay 1987		Roberto
Arabia		1969
1977		12-c
6-b
Sydney's Dream
Bay 1991		Bletchingly
Dream Appeal		1970
1982		7-a
52
Our Farm Girl
Bay or brown 2000		Marscay
Chestnut 1979		Biscay
Heart of Market		1965
1967		2-o
4-m
Sunshine Sally
Bay 1986		Cheraw
Lady Genevieve		1973
1976		1-w
13-a
Stick 'Em Up (AUS)
Bay 2016		Dundeel
Bay 2009		High Chaparral
Bay 1999		Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981		Northern Dancer
Fairy Bridge		1961
1975		2-d
5-h
Kasora
Brown 1993		Darshaan
Kozana		1981
1982		13-c
1-n
Stareel
Bay 2000		Zabeel
Bay 1986		Sir Tristram
Lady Giselle		1971
1982		6-e
16-c
Staring
Bay 1988		Fiesta Star
Sweet Violet		1979
1981		1-n
22-b
Shoot Fer Love
Brown 2008		Ferocity
Grey 2002		Lion Hunter
Grey 1992		Danehill
Pure of Heart		1986
1978		2-d
10-c
Chiara
Bay 1994		Last Tycoon
Etoile d'Or		1983
1983		8-c
13-b
Pentamerous
Bay 2000		Pentire
Bay 1992		Be My Guest
Gull Nook		1974
1983		8-c
1-l
Johnny Loves Jazz
Brown 1988		Virginia Privateer
Jazz Concert		1982
1979		6-e
14-c
 Ancestor duplications:Danehill5m x 5m Zabeel4f x 4f  
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If she wants to stick to the $8,800 then the olden Hallowed Crown also looks nice on paper

Unnamed

 

 

 

Hallowed Crown (AUS)
Bay 2011

Street Sense
Bay or brown 2004

Street Cry
Bay or brown 1998

Machiavellian
Bay or brown 1987

Mr Prospector
Coup de Folie

1970
1982

13-c
2-d

Helen Street
Bay 1982

Troy
Waterway

1976
1976

1-b
1-l

Bedazzle
Bay 1997

Dixieland Band
Bay 1980

Northern Dancer
Mississippi Mud

1961
1973

2-d
4-m

Majestic Legend
Bay 1985

His Majesty
Long Legend

1968
1978

4-d
22-b

Crowned Glory
Bay 1997

Danehill
Bay 1986

Danzig
Bay 1977

Northern Dancer
Pas de Nom

1961
1968

2-d
7-a

Razyana
Bay 1981

His Majesty
Spring Adieu

1968
1974

4-d
2-d

Significant Moment
Bay 1990

Bletchingly
Brown 1970

Biscay
Coogee

1965
1959

2-o
7-a

Lady Giselle
Bay 1982

Nureyev
Valderna

1977
1972

5-h
16-c

Stick 'Em Up (AUS)
Bay 2016

Dundeel
Bay 2009

High Chaparral
Bay 1999

Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981

Northern Dancer
Fairy Bridge

1961
1975

2-d
5-h

Kasora
Brown 1993

Darshaan
Kozana

1981
1982

13-c
1-n

Stareel
Bay 2000

Zabeel
Bay 1986

Sir Tristram
Lady Giselle

1971
1982

6-e
16-c

Staring
Bay 1988

Fiesta Star
Sweet Violet

1979
1981

1-n
22-b

Shoot Fer Love
Brown 2008

Ferocity
Grey 2002

Lion Hunter
Grey 1992

Danehill
Pure of Heart

1986
1978

2-d
10-c

Chiara
Bay 1994

Last Tycoon
Etoile d'Or

1983
1983

8-c
13-b

Pentamerous
Bay 2000

Pentire
Bay 1992

Be My Guest
Gull Nook

1974
1983

8-c
1-l

Johnny Loves Jazz
Brown 1988

Virginia Privateer
Jazz Concert

1982
1979

6-e
14-c

 

 

Ancestor duplications:

Northern Dancer

5m,5m x 5m

 

His Majesty

5f,5f x

 

Danehill

3f x 5m

 

 

 

Lady Giselle

4f x 5m

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
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one up in Queensland who has crossed to a High Chaparral mare for Yellow Brick is Choisir's son The Mission.  You would have to go further but Choisir has proven very capable of getting a sire son in Prosir and this boy was a 2yo G1 winner.  Her you see the cross of Danehill Dancer and Dundeel both from the same female line.

Unnamed  
The Mission (AUS)
Bay 2014		Choisir
Chestnut 1999		Danehill Dancer
Bay 1993		Danehill
Bay 1986		Danzig
Razyana		1977
1981		7-a
2-d
Mira Adonde
Bay or brown 1986		Sharpen Up
Lettre d'Amour		1969
1979		5-i
22-b
Great Selection
Chestnut 1990		Lunchtime
Chestnut 1970		Silly Season
Great Occasion		1962
1965		1-g
7-f
Pensive Mood
Chestnut 1983		Biscay
Staid		1965
1968		2-o
8-f
My Amelia
Bay or brown 2007		Redoute's Choice
Bay 1996		Danehill
Bay 1986		Danzig
Razyana		1977
1981		7-a
2-d
Shantha's Choice
Bay 1992		Canny Lad
Dancing Show		1987
1983		14>
8-f
Carry on Cutie
Bay 2002		More Than Ready
Bay or brown 1997		Southern Halo
Woodman's Girl		1983
1990		16-g
1-s
Rose of Latakia
Bay 1992		Conquistarose
Syrian Port		1984
1984		26>
1-p
Stick 'Em Up (AUS)
Bay 2016		Dundeel
Bay 2009		High Chaparral
Bay 1999		Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981		Northern Dancer
Fairy Bridge		1961
1975		2-d
5-h
Kasora
Brown 1993		Darshaan
Kozana		1981
1982		13-c
1-n
Stareel
Bay 2000		Zabeel
Bay 1986		Sir Tristram
Lady Giselle		1971
1982		6-e
16-c
Staring
Bay 1988		Fiesta Star
Sweet Violet		1979
1981		1-n
22-b
Shoot Fer Love
Brown 2008		Ferocity
Grey 2002		Lion Hunter
Grey 1992		Danehill
Pure of Heart		1986
1978		2-d
10-c
Chiara
Bay 1994		Last Tycoon
Etoile d'Or		1983
1983		8-c
13-b
Pentamerous
Bay 2000		Pentire
Bay 1992		Be My Guest
Gull Nook		1974
1983		8-c
1-l
Johnny Loves Jazz
Brown 1988		Virginia Privateer
Jazz Concert		1982
1979		6-e
14-c
 Ancestor duplications:Danehill4m,4m x 5m       
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I'd noticed Sadlers dups & siblings coming up in Ticino's classic results posts; they could be worth a look in terms of ideas outside the square Confused

Hello, 
the finish of the "Bavarian Classic":

1) Mr. Hollywood (IRE)(Iquitos - Margie's Music by Hurricane Run) Fam. 9-c Real Delight
    4x4 Sadlers Wells, 5x5x5 ND

2) Alpenjäger (Nutan - Amora by High Chapparal) Fam. 16 Kisasszony
    3x4 Danehill, 5x5 Surumu, 3 x 4 Sadlers Wells/Nureyev 3/4 rel., 5x5 Special
    Sire 4x4 Alydar, 4x4 ND

3) Fantastic Moon (Sea the Moon - Frangipani by Juke Box Jury) Fam. 1-e Pretty Lady
    4x4 Sadlers Wells, 5x5 Surumu
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thanks everyone, i have passed all of your thoughts onto Mum. greatly appreciated. 
The Spirit of Zero resuming. Raymond(Midnight) Resuming next week. Lulu (Rising) spelling. Alli - Spelling. Jeffrey spelling. Ambi Boo spelling. Sh'bourne Angel spelling.
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Originally posted by Gay3 Gay3 wrote:

I'd noticed Sadlers dups & siblings coming up in Ticino's classic results posts; they could be worth a look in terms of ideas outside the square Confused

Hello, 
the finish of the "Bavarian Classic":

1) Mr. Hollywood (IRE)(Iquitos - Margie's Music by Hurricane Run) Fam. 9-c Real Delight
    4x4 Sadlers Wells, 5x5x5 ND

2) Alpenjäger (Nutan - Amora by High Chapparal) Fam. 16 Kisasszony
    3x4 Danehill, 5x5 Surumu, 3 x 4 Sadlers Wells/Nureyev 3/4 rel., 5x5 Special
    Sire 4x4 Alydar, 4x4 ND

3) Fantastic Moon (Sea the Moon - Frangipani by Juke Box Jury) Fam. 1-e Pretty Lady
    4x4 Sadlers Wells, 5x5 Surumu
one of the stallions Mum was looking at before I asked was Delaware Gay. that would give the double of S.W. Cheers Slowdown
The Spirit of Zero resuming. Raymond(Midnight) Resuming next week. Lulu (Rising) spelling. Alli - Spelling. Jeffrey spelling. Ambi Boo spelling. Sh'bourne Angel spelling.
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Graff is interesting on an inbreeding point of view with other ticks also .
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Crikey goldey, that's a phenomenal pick up, I love it! Both almost identically mirror each other & the Chiara dup. would be pretty rare. Gosh, even old Battle Waggon on both sides Heart
djebel &/or furious could you help out with a chart please? Big smile
For now:
Click on image then click on Zoom & it's easily readable Smile
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Siblings 2 x 2?
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They would be 3 x 3 SC.
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On another plus the reverse cross , Dundeel /Keep the Faith is 1 runner, 1 stakes winner , not a large Nick demographic though . I like to look at the reverse cross to a mare via closeup X chromosome rather to the sire line .
A larger reverse Nick base is the Starcraft cross with 1stakeswinner from 11 runners .
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This mare is going to have a ceiling on the commercial value of her foals.  A stud fee of ~$8-9k will limit the ceiling more.  This isn't to say that you can't get a good horse or a commercial horse...only that the market may not think so.

As SecondChance has pointed out, unless her dam produces a stakes horse soon, she will have no black type for 3 generations.  Her full brother by Dundeel sold at Inglis Classic in 2021 for $60,000, well below the $105k average and $90k median for Dundeel yearlings at that sale, and none for sale since then.  Her siblings are all by good to excellent sires in High Chap, Dundeel, and Medaglia D'Oro, so it's not that her dam is being bred to cart horses.

This mare and her family are all middle distance to staying horses, which is important to keep in mind.  Crossing a blazing-fast sprinter with a long-winded stayer risks getting the speed of the stayer and the stamina of the sprinter.  Or you might wind up with slow-twitch muscles on top of a fast-twitch skeleton.  Arguably, that happened to this mare's dam...Ferocity didn't add the speed they were looking for, and she instead is producing slightly slower stayers.  A horse who tends to throw miler-types who can stretch out (much like Dundeel himself) may be the best choice for Stick'Em Up.

Top choices:

If he is still standing this year, Al Maher is about as safe a bet as you can get.

Needs Further will get a sales horse (and not just in Tasmania), he's a proven miler-type sire, he's priced right, you wouldn't have to ship (if the mare is in Tas as well), and there are a lot of pedigree elements to like starting with his 3rd dam Lady Giselle.  He has a stakes winner out of a Pierro mare, plus Mystic Journey and Mystical Pursuit have the Zabeel son Colombia on their dam's sides so this is worth a try with Dundeel's line to Zabeel.  Also worth noting is that Dundeel's millionaire Hope in Your Heart is linebred to Lady Giselle's dam Valderna.

Food for thought:

I'm lukewarm towards Delaware (GB) based on his race record.  Turf racing in North America is not to the same standard as AUS/NZ, Japan, or Europe -- look at how often Euro and Japanese horses come to the Breeders Cup and run right past the North Americans -- and so winning at Listed and Gr-3 level there does not inspire.  If he was sold by Juddmonte to race in North America, that says what they thought of his potential.  That said, he's beautifully bred and may have some attention at the sales for that alone.

If you want to get a bit out of the box, and given that Dundeel has multiple stakes winners who are 3x3 Sadlers Wells I wouldn't be put off, is Wyndspelle.  Iffraaj had 4 stakes winners out of Zabeel mares and 2 out of High Chap mares, plus he seemed to "click" with NZ lines in general.  Iffraaj has one global-level stallion son in Wootten Basset, another promising son in Ribchester, and Turn Me Loose in NZ is off to a good start so far.  His owners liked him enough to bring him from New Zealand to Vic based off his first foals (so they might support him at sales in AUS), he's got the miler speed, and he comes from a sturdy NZ mare line.  Something else I noticed is that Iffraaj's dam Pastorale is a Nureyev half-sister to Cape Cross--a line that has already worked with Dundeel multiple times.
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Points: 11544 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slowdown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2023 at 10:06am
thankyou everyone for your time and effort. Some fantastic information, knowledge given out and it is really appreciated. I am heading up to Mums today to set up horse fences for Stick Em Up. The mare will be home in Tassie next week and will spend her time on 5 acres overlooking Bass Strait. 
I will have conversations while fencing with all suggestions and get back to you with a decision. thanks again. Slowdown
The Spirit of Zero resuming. Raymond(Midnight) Resuming next week. Lulu (Rising) spelling. Alli - Spelling. Jeffrey spelling. Ambi Boo spelling. Sh'bourne Angel spelling.
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Points: 55609 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2023 at 11:21am
What a fantastic educational read KM, probably took ages but well worth it from the readers' viewpoint Clap
It takes a wise man a lifetime to grow a tree and a fool five minutes to kill one.
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Points: 7060 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Take2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2023 at 11:40am
Al Maher retired to Emirates (Qld)

Edited by Take2 - 03 Jun 2023 at 11:41am
change is simply a destination on a journey reached by taking the first step (i said that) lol

www.3rdmillenniumbloodstock.com.au
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Points: 7060 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Take2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2023 at 11:43am
Originally posted by Take2 Take2 wrote:

Al Maher retired to Emirates - Aquis  (Qld)
change is simply a destination on a journey reached by taking the first step (i said that) lol

www.3rdmillenniumbloodstock.com.au
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