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Stallion Suggestions - Dandesha

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oldflight View Drop Down
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    Posted: 01 Nov 2022 at 7:57pm
Hi Folks,
I have succumb to the pressure of a good mate to now get a paddock mate for Dandesha,
So onto Inglis Digital we go and a mare is purchased.

Invermoray (NZ) VOLKSRAAD (GB) - Cat Shmea, by Felix the Cat (USA
Full Sister to Gr1 Winner VELOCITEA 7 wins-2 at 2 Goodwood H., Gr.1
1/2 sister to Maastricht Sold 2019 ($2,250,000) the Dam of Loving Gaby

She has been outstandingly underwhelming as a producer although going to name stallions, she must throw a nice type as they make a lot of money at sales and her Mongolian Khan yearling is a great type.

Goal
Breed to race with mates with a commercial edge if personal circumstances change and we have to bail

Restrictions
Stallion needs to be able to put some leg under his stock as Volksraad mares in general, according to some NZ contacts can throw some square blocky stock.
No restriction on state,
Less than $20K (as much less as possible)

She has gone to Overshare this season because she was next door and the price was very very good

Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated so we can sort her and Dandesha out for next season.

Ciao For Now Old Flight









Edited by Gay3 - 03 Nov 2022 at 10:53am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Kimberley Mine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2022 at 12:46pm
Hi Oldflight,

If I look at the best-performed horses from Volksraad's female family, a few names pop up over and over: Miswaki, Sharpen Up, Lyphard, the Ahonoora mare Park Appeal, and Shamardal.  Habitat, a son of Sir Gaylord, shows up a few times too, although less often.  Busted shows up, and the common thread between Busted and Sharpen Up's sons Kris and Diesis is Crepello.

It just so happens that three of these names are present with Maastricht via Mastercraftsman: Lyphard, Miswaki and Sharpen Up.  For Loving Gaby, Invincible Spirit has an additional line of Sharpen Up and a line to his sire Atan's female ancestress Aloe via Artaius, a son of Round Table.  That's good--it means they're working with both your mare's sire and dam lines.  It also gives you names to chase besides I Am Invincible.

Magna Grecia has Invincible Spirit (Sharpen Up, Artarius), Miswaki via Galileo, and a line of Silly Season (Tom Fool) to go with Nijinsky and Sir Ivor in the pedigree.  $19,250 at Coolmore.

Saxon Warrior has Lyphard via Alzao (who is a genetic sibling to Dancing Brave, a line of Lyphard that worked really well with Celtic Assembly), Busted is there through his daughter Berghclere, Miswaki through Galileo, Alleged, and Ahonoora.  Deep Impact himself is tail-female to Aloe, and Saxon Warrior's tale-female line has worked in Australia via both Pierro and Awesome Rock.  Also $19,250 at Coolmore.

Ghaiyyath is a bit above your top price at $27,500 but Darley may be willing to bargain.  Dubawi is the best source of Dancing Brave in Australasia (Lyphard/Olmec by Drone, a genetic sibling to Alzao).  He also brings in more three more lines to Sir Ivor, that one's sire Sir Gaylord via Thatch, and Indian Ridge.  Interestingly, Volksraad's sister Cherokee Rose has a daughter by Seeking the Gold named Cara Bella.  That mare was imported to Australia and has produced three stakes winners--one by Shamardal, one by Exceed and Excel, and one by Medaglia d'Oro--so the line of Seeking the Gold via his best male descendant looks good.  

Lucky Vega and Endless Drama are worth a look as sons of Shamardal's best son at stud.  Lucky Vega is out of a Cape Cross mare (Ahonoora/Park Appeal), and his 2nd and 3rd dams are by Muthathir (Diesis, Lyphard) and Irish River.  Endless Drama is out of a Green Desert mare and his 3rd dam is by Sir Ivor.  I don't know if Lucky Vega will come back, but Endless Drama is affordably priced at $8800 and still a good cross.

Among sires with foals racing, in no particular order: Kermadec, Astern, Al Maher (because you just can't go wrong with him), and Pride of Dubai, whose dam is a half-sister to the dam of Invincible Spirit.

Have fun!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldflight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2022 at 8:08pm
Thanks KM
Really appreciate the work I will look at the foals and yearling of the Stallions that have progressed that far for leg and size.

I think you could be onto something

Cheers Heaps Baz
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Kimberley Mine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2022 at 8:17am
Originally posted by oldflight oldflight wrote:

Thanks KM
Really appreciate the work I will look at the foals and yearling of the Stallions that have progressed that far for leg and size.

I think you could be onto something

Cheers Heaps Baz

You're welcome.

One more to too into the mix is Tosen Stardom, although I wouldn't necessarily put him as high up as Saxon Warrior amongst Sunday Silence-line horses on either pedigree or performance.  Tosen Stardom has Alzao and Busted through Deep Impact on his sire's side. His dam is by End Sweep, who had some success in AUS, particularly as a broodmare sire, and who has a pair of quality mares in Continue (2nd dam of Forty Niner) and Obeah, who traces in tail-female to Aloe through Persian Maid (same as Atan).  As a nice bonus, his 4th dam is by Secretariat, and his 2nd dam is by Northern Taste.

Here's the really interesting bit to me:  Sunday Silence's broodmare sire is Understanding, who is out of the mare Pretty Ways.  Pretty Ways is a full sister to Lipstick, the 3rd dam of Felix the Cat--uncommon, but worth a look.  Gold Beauty, Stick to Beauty's best offspring, is the dam of Dayjur.  Sunday Silence over a Dayjur mare resulted in stakes winner Keep the Faith, and Gold Beauty's daughter Maplejinsky produced two daughters by Sunday Silence.  One of them, Silence Beauty, is the dam of US Gr-1 winner Tale of Ekati (by Tale of the Cat, who is by Storm Cat out of an Aloe-line mare).  Even though Keep the Faith was only a listed winner, that's still a good strike rate to the cross.

Tale of Ekati has a pair of stakes-winning full siblings bred like this - their dam traces in tail-female to Continue: https://www.pedigreequery.com/tale+of+verve
 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2022 at 9:39am
Plenty of food for thought there Odflight, hope you've got a couple of pots of coffee to keep you going!

Had earlier sent this to you, but others may be somewhat interested.

"have one out of left field that I believe could be terrific if breeding to race, ie Atomic.  Stands down the Western District for a small fee and gets a lot of winners over all distances off small, lowish quality books.  Stacks up just great from a line breeding perspective".

Sire wise crosses of Green Dancer, Danzig, Storm Cat, Secretariat, Nasrullah, Northern Dancer etc and no less than 5 instances of the great mare Somethingroyal via Secretariat, Sir Gaylord and Loyal Land.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Progold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2022 at 7:32pm
Interesting mating with Overshare as his sire and damsire are the sires of two of the latest stakes winners from the family. The stallion hasn't had a bad start to his career. Plenty of reasonable choices for her, but one suggestion in that I would be looking at being cautious with too much inbreeding. The other big decision to be made is whether to look at colonial lines, NZ lines, or European and US lines. The fact that the family has had recent success with I Am Invincible and Redoute's Choice might be a telling factor in that decision. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Kimberley Mine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2022 at 12:59pm
Originally posted by Progold Progold wrote:

The other big decision to be made is whether to look at colonial lines, NZ lines, or European and US lines. The fact that the family has had recent success with I Am Invincible and Redoute's Choice might be a telling factor in that decision. 

With respect, I would add a bit of caution to the above comment: correlation is not necessarily causation.

Velocitea's first four foals are all by Redoute's Choice, including stakes-placed Limehills.  Maastricht, whose sire Mastercraftsman is US-bred in all but name, has only 3 foals of racing age, 2 by IAI and one by Sebring.  It's worth noting that all three horses are extremely high-quality champion sires, the type who could be bred to a shetland pony and get a stakes horse.

Invermoray's best by far is by Thewayyouare, whose dam Maryinsky comes from the Best in Show family (in the USA since 1915) and sire Kingmambo traces to a mare imported from the UK to the USA in 1808.  Her second best is by the AUS/NZ colonial-bred Pins, and that filly is a maiden winner with NZ $6500 in earnings.

It's difficult to argue that success is or is not related to amount of colonial bloodlines (or not) when there are so few points for comparison.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote oldflight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2022 at 9:37am
Hi Team,
Thanks for all the input, as SC stated much to think about, I agree with the inference that being tunnel focused on the (Invincible Spirit / I am Invincible) cross may not be beneficial, although Hellbent, loving Gaby and Coolmore's Greece are compelling cases.
After seeing the mare she is nice and correct, but does need some leg under her.

I must say have dual knee replacements a couple of weeks ago and developing a new Property, it did drop of the radar, but now its plan and execute.

Cheers Oldflight

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Kimberley Mine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2022 at 11:13am
Good luck with all of that.  Hopefully the knee replacements are a good improvement in your quality of life.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2024 at 4:52pm
Any update oldflight?
It takes a wise man a lifetime to grow a tree and a fool five minutes to kill one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2024 at 7:41pm
Baz is probably still on the tractor, but has apparently and for possibly good reason ignored all our suggestions.  Wink  Shocked

And sent both his mares to Victor Ludorum.  Hopefully with great outcomes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldflight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 2024 at 12:00am
Hi Team,
Yes both mares went to Victor Ludoram, 
Dandesha foaled a cracking filly a couple of days ago, we made the call to him over Russian Camelot (Hours and Days of discussion) 

Camalot over Dansili 

Las Angelas wins Irish Derby and third in Arc
Blue Stocking wins Arc
Plus a heap of other lower stakes winners - yes we are of cause kicking our own heads and I feel sick, when i learn to post photos, i will out the foal photos up

Dandesha now retired to a green home Paddock (to hard to keep in foal) and to hard on her.
 Invermorays - Overshare is a ripper Yearling now awaiting the VL 

ciao Baz
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