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Fires - Victoria

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Dr E View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr E Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2020 at 12:23pm
Dizzied by your powers of deduction?LOL
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!
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Second Chance View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2020 at 12:27pm
Comparative data:

Area burnt out in 2009 Black Friday bushfires: 450,000 hectares.
Area burnt out in 2019/20 bushfires: 10,500,000 hectares (1,300,000 hectares in Vic).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baghdad Bob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2020 at 12:37pm
Then again in 2009..
  • 450,000 ha (1,100,000 acres) burnt
  • 7,562 people displaced
  • Over 3,500 structures destroyed, including:
    • 2,029+ houses
    • 59 commercial properties (shops, pubs, service stations, golf clubs, etc.)
    • 12 community buildings (including 2 police stations, 3 schools, 3 churches, 1 fire station)
    • 399 machinery sheds, 363 hay sheds, 19 dairies, 26 woolsheds, 729 other farm buildings
  • Agricultural and horticultural losses:
    • Over 11,800 head of livestock, consisting of 2,150 sheep, 1,207 cattle, and an unknown number of horses, goats, alpacas, poultry, and pigs
    • 25,600 tonnes (25,200 long tons; 28,200 short tons) of stored fodder and grain
    • 32,000 tonnes (31,000 long tons; 35,000 short tons) of hay and silage
    • 190 ha (470 acres) of standing crops
    • 62,000 ha (150,000 acres) of pasture
    • 735 ha (1,820 acres) of fruit trees, olives and vines
    • Over 10,000 kilometres (6,200 mi) of boundary and internal fencing destroyed or damaged
    • 7,000 ha (17,000 acres) of plantation timber
  • 98,932 ha (244,470 acres) of parks damaged, 90 per cent of which was national park. It was claimed that 950 local parks, 70 national parks and reserves, and over 600 cultural sites and historic places were impacted or destroyed
  • 3,921 ha (9,690 acres) of private bushland
  • Over 55 businesses destroyed
  • Electricity supply was disrupted to 60,000 residents
  • Several mobile phone base stations and telephone exchanges damaged or destroyed


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2020 at 12:42pm
Exactly, the human and structural loss occurred in outer city and nearer city rural areas.  

Imagine the losses had the current fires not largely flared in remote or distanced rural areas.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2020 at 12:44pm
...but rather close to outer Melbourne, Sydneyetc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2020 at 12:44pm
From December 1938 to January 1939, fires burnt out around two million hectares. 71 people died and more than 650 buildings were destroyed. The most severe fires came during a firestorm on Friday January 13, known as Black Friday.

The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realise it doesn't say anything, it's too late to stop reading it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2020 at 12:55pm
Compared with ten and a half million hectares over the last three weeks.  That's more than five times the size of Black Friday and ten times the size of Black Saturday.  Imagine the frightening toll had the current fires flared closer to heavier populated, built up areas.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tontonan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2020 at 1:21pm
Originally posted by Gay3 Gay3 wrote:

From December 1938 to January 1939, fires burnt out around two million hectares. 71 people died and more than 650 buildings were destroyed. The most severe fires came during a firestorm on Friday January 13, known as Black Friday.




And to think that the majority  of those catastrophic fires were started by people !


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tontonan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2020 at 1:32pm
AUSTRALIA'S LARGEST BUSHFIRES
(1,000,000 ha + 1850 to the present)
21st century fires in bold




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tontonan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2020 at 2:04pm
What is particularly disturbing about this history is how little forest we have left to burn and how rapidly and frequently it is burning.   

For example :  88% of Victoria's 23.7 million hectares was tree covered (about 21 million hectares)  before the arrival of the Europeans. 
 
Now the figure of the very liberally defined remaining forest [1] in Victoria is 6.4 million hectares.  

15 million hectares of trees have been cleared in Victoria [2].

(State of the Forests Report 2018 - Commissioner for Environmental Sustainability Victoria)

Australia wide forests covered 33% of the continent in 1788.  This percentage has fallen to less than 17%. [ABS]


[1] a 'forest' is defined as -
“a land area dominated by trees
having usually a single stem and a mature
or potentially mature stand height exceeding
two metres and with existing or potential
crown cover of overstory strata about equal
to or greater than 20 percent. This definition
includes native forests and plantations and
areas of trees that are sometimes described
as woodlands”

[2]  the remainder are 2.3 million ha on private lands
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2020 at 2:48pm
I thought the new story being out there was that there were hardly any trees when the Brits arrived cos the Aboriginals had brilliantly burned it into parkland. Looked like manicured English estates blah blah blah. Something like that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2020 at 6:05pm
The Aboriginals managed to burn underbrush with out burning trees.  They cleared the land so it regenerated with a bit of rain.  They didnt burn down every tree on country,,,,,,and well you know that Tlaz.
animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baguette Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2020 at 6:31pm
Yes James Cook reported that the land was on fire as he sailed up east coast in 1770. He Aboriginals doing they’re hazard reduction burns . They were much smarter than us .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2020 at 8:00pm
Was climate change around in 1770 ?
animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2020 at 9:09pm
This is relevant to a degree I s'pose in Broome WA the primary school was burnt to the ground by an alleged young lady who burnt her cell to attract guards then fled and torched the school, parts of it were built in 1910 and the damage cost 5mill. really a tragic affair all round , education maybe the culprit here imo ( lack of) so the school bore the brunt.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr E Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2020 at 11:52pm
Originally posted by Second Chance Second Chance wrote:

Exactly, the human and structural loss occurred in outer city and nearer city rural areas.  

Imagine the losses had the current fires not largely flared in remote or distanced rural areas.

You mean in National Parks where the fuel loads were so large from the parks being locked up and denied fuel reduction for decades that they were simply impossible to control at any point and just kept on burning into the canopies of huge trees ... wake up and stop defending the obvious. You are just making it worse with every post.

Tell me how the temperature changing by less than 1 degree in 140 years makes any difference to any fire?

Drought, dry weather, strong winds, massive fuel load, ignition (i don't care if it is arsonists or not) ... what do you get if the temperature is 30 degrees? ... will it be any different if the temperature is 31 degrees? ... or 41 degrees?
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2020 at 8:26am

Every time a weather extreme occurs, some people quickly jump in to say we’ve been through it all before: that worse events have happened in the past, or it’s just part of natural climate variability.

The recent bushfire crisis is a case in point. Writing in The Australian recently, columnist Gerard Henderson said:

In Victoria, there were further huge fires in 1983 and 2009. But until now, there was no suggestion that the state’s future would be one of continuing apocalypse.

Of course, Australia has a long history of bushfires. But several factors make eastern Australia’s recent crisis different to infamous bushfires in the past.

First is the enormous geographic spread of this season’s fires, and second, the absence of El Niño conditions typically associated with previous severe fires.

Thirdly and most important, these fires were preceded by the hottest and driest conditions in Australian history.


https://theconversation.com/some-say-weve-seen-bushfires-worse-than-this-before-but-theyre-ignoring-a-few-key-facts-129391


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baguette Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2020 at 8:36am
From The Conversation ? That place has as much credibility
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baguette Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2020 at 8:38am
Oops sorry!! Pressed the wrong button. I should use my phone to post. I was saying The Conversation is not the most reliable source to use .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2020 at 9:15am

Hundreds of SES calls, 15m deep sinkhole opens as storms lash state

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By 

Storms that lashed the state have helped clear smoke from the sky in Melbourne but did little to contain bushfires in Victoria's east and threatened to make conditions more hazardous for firefighters.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2020 at 7:33pm

We have already had countless bushfire inquiries. What good will it do to have another?

By Kevin Tolhurst
Posted

A royal commission has coercive powers beyond a government inquiry, and the need for one implies there are facts and evidence that would otherwise be "hidden" to an inquiry or review.

Research I've recently conducted with other fire experts has concluded there have been 57 formal public inquiries, reviews and royal commissions related to bushfires and fire management since 1939, most of which are listed here.

I have given expert evidence to at least seven of them, including the 2009 Victorian Bushfires Royal Commission.

That is more than one inquiry every two years in the past 80 years. Do we need yet another?

Previous reviews that went nowhere

Some of the recommendations of the Stretton Royal Commission following the Black Friday fires of 1939 have still not been fully implemented.

Many of the recommendations of the subsequent 56 inquiries have not been fully implemented either, so it raises serious questions about whether another royal commission will offer anything new or compelling.

Continues.......................

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2020 at 10:17pm
anyone been reading the reports from those locals in the area impacted by fires ?  especially on the south coast of NSW.  complaing about the very long, detailed, costly requirements for a permit to do clearing around your own property ?  that is bounced about between the various Govnt authorities. 
if you havnt , you should, and then come back and tell us the greenies are as pure as the driven snow.
animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baghdad Bob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2020 at 5:56am
Exactly AA, likewise , although not in the press or in the media, I know of the same situation of property owners in Victoria having to face the same bureaucratic regulations. That reminds me of my thread about Tony Abbott coping abuse on a domestic flight.It was not reported in any media but I know of a family on board that flight who heard the bogans’ abuse and Abbott, being the man he is, laughed it off, and of course, it did not make the news and I am accused of making it up.
Give me a break, although it will not take long before SC trolls me once again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2020 at 7:03am
Originally posted by acacia alba acacia alba wrote:

anyone been reading the reports from those locals in the area impacted by fires ?  especially on the south coast of NSW.  complaing about the very long, detailed, costly requirements for a permit to do clearing around your own property ?  that is bounced about between the various Govnt authorities. 
if you havnt , you should, and then come back and tell us the greenies are as pure as the driven snow.


How the hell do the Greens make the regulations? Do they control the state government? Do they control the council? What council?Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baghdad Bob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2020 at 7:59am
To put into perspective the causes of these disastrous bushfires there are three conditions required for a bushfire..
A. Ignition source
B.fuel
C.hot dry conditions.
If one of those three are missing, you do not get a wildfire/ bushfire.
Of those three conditions, the easiest to control is the amount of fuel by regular prescribed burns, and we have failed to do this.
Some argue climate change has brought about those hot dry conditions, whilst that is a valid argument , those bushfires would still not occur without A & B above.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2020 at 8:04am
Maybe Mr Morrison could release the most recent report he has hidden because it didn't suit the govt's denier narrative. It is only 18 months old.
"It is what it is"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tontonan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2020 at 7:50pm
Bloody hell.  Now French Island is on fire.  It has had 20mm of rain in the last week and it still catches fire.  

This could be disastrous for the koalas.  French Island is only accessible by ferry and virtually uninhabited (100 people at most).  It is disease free for koalas and is often used to restock areas on the mainland.

Poor bugger my country.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2020 at 9:08pm
I actually took a 10 day "holiday" on French Island a couple of weeks ago (my missus thought it would be something different!) so this holds special interest for me. While I was there a small fire started on NYE due to lightning. It's a bit of a bleak place frankly but I feel for the koalas. Not being sarcastic. We had one living right next to our house. I'm pretty sure locals will all be fine. Seeing the fire truck on the barge was gold (if things don't get bad of course.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tontonan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2020 at 10:08pm
10 days on French Island ?   Rather you than me.  I spent a day there back in the 1980's and that was enough for me.   Manuka and Blue Gum and koalas.  And mozzies.

The koala is actually introduced but all those blue gums are koala heaven.  No chlamydia either.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2020 at 5:29am
Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

Originally posted by acacia alba acacia alba wrote:

anyone been reading the reports from those locals in the area impacted by fires ?  especially on the south coast of NSW.  complaing about the very long, detailed, costly requirements for a permit to do clearing around your own property ?  that is bounced about between the various Govnt authorities. 
if you havnt , you should, and then come back and tell us the greenies are as pure as the driven snow.


How the hell do the Greens make the regulations? Do they control the state government? Do they control the council? What council?Wink


Didn't think so. Fake news.Wink
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