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Denis Pagan |
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Bonjour
Champion Joined: 25 Feb 2010 Status: Offline Points: 8402 |
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My old boss once said to me, '' cocaine? LOL......we used to tie a tab under the horses tongue and behind the strand barriers reach down a pull the string''..........he was talking about the good old days at Ascot in Perth....in the 40's and 50's......now thats cheating SD.
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Bonjour
Champion Joined: 25 Feb 2010 Status: Offline Points: 8402 |
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I'm thinking it would have been in the 30's, as he went onto be champion trainer in MEL for 12 years, what a history he had one AAA
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max manewer
Champion Joined: 30 Jan 2010 Status: Offline Points: 32947 |
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No swabs in those days, and doping was rife. All sorts of weird and wonderful concoctions, what killed Phar Lap, an OD of Arsenic ? That was one constituent in use, chemists would brew up elaborate cocktails, tailored to the horse, but the horse still needed to be fit and have enough ability. I was told that in one year in Brisbane, the bookies actually lost over the year, and the money started to go on interstate, to give them some respite, they probably would not let certain people on any more, anyway.
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Bonjour
Champion Joined: 25 Feb 2010 Status: Offline Points: 8402 |
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Yep
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Shawy38
Champion Joined: 13 Jun 2015 Status: Offline Points: 17414 |
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What does Phar Lap have to do with Denis Pagan?
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Bonjour
Champion Joined: 25 Feb 2010 Status: Offline Points: 8402 |
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LOL
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SkyDancer
Champion Joined: 02 Aug 2014 Location: Cranbourne Status: Offline Points: 8429 |
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Picked up a third placing with his first runner
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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I reckon he should have been fighting out the finish.
Whilst the first two are getting clear runs down the outside full of momentum King is climbing all over the backs of those on the inside.
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reductio ad absurdum
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max manewer
Champion Joined: 30 Jan 2010 Status: Offline Points: 32947 |
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I reckon Pagan may turn into the training "messiah", that djebel craves, to show the likes of Waller how it is done !
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Redemption
Champion Joined: 09 Apr 2017 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5387 |
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Denis is a nice man, as too his son Ryan. They are highly respected by their staff at Pagan Real Estate.
Staff stick around, as they are very good people to work with.
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ALL my posts are written as Sci-Fi, no different to an Orson Welles and should not be taken literally. Sci-fi is a genre of Fiction.
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Bonjour
Champion Joined: 25 Feb 2010 Status: Offline Points: 8402 |
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He might be, good on him, but he got a leg up where others didn't, the next thing will be Sammy boy will be in boxes with Dad Mark and Bro Levi.......what's the odds?
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Redemption
Champion Joined: 09 Apr 2017 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5387 |
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He has a passion for horses and horse racing.
Being the competitive man he is, it really isn't a surprise he is trying this venture too. I bought my home from him, I stuffed him around for months, he was so patient, professional, polite. His son Ryan is one of the nicest blokes you would ever meet. You can't say that about many real estate agents.
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ALL my posts are written as Sci-Fi, no different to an Orson Welles and should not be taken literally. Sci-fi is a genre of Fiction.
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Carioca
Champion Joined: 13 Nov 2015 Status: Offline Points: 21830 |
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I thought you couldn't say that about any.
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Bonjour
Champion Joined: 25 Feb 2010 Status: Offline Points: 8402 |
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He could be Jesus or Mohammed Redemption, the thing is, he got a massive favour shown to him by the VRC/RVL........it was written in stone, you couldn't pre-train horses at headquarters nor most metro tracks, and then granted a licence to train on same metro track? Please, what example does that show to young people.......what they have done is created a precedence so let's see what becomes fair and equatable in that wonderful tropical paradise of Danistan shall we?
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Red Hare
Champion Joined: 11 Jan 2015 Location: Victoria Status: Offline Points: 4233 |
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With respect, I think some of you old timers are over valuing the prestige of metro tracks - perhaps reflecting the over pricing of same by the committees.
Fair chance Denis is the only 'fresh meat' willing to pay the rent - and had to backdoor the immovable traditions to do so.
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Carioca
Champion Joined: 13 Nov 2015 Status: Offline Points: 21830 |
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I'm over it anyhow Red Hare, che sera sera, times do change and this is not the first time , we move on.
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Online Points: 45812 |
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Real Estate Agent turned trainer. Tad surprised he hasn't set up shop in SE Qld.
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Red Hare
Champion Joined: 11 Jan 2015 Location: Victoria Status: Offline Points: 4233 |
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Carioca
Champion Joined: 13 Nov 2015 Status: Offline Points: 21830 |
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Top man , sensible finale.
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WarriSymbol
Champion Joined: 03 Apr 2010 Status: Offline Points: 3169 |
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He's not the first to have Flemington as their base when they saddle their first runner.
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Bonjour
Champion Joined: 25 Feb 2010 Status: Offline Points: 8402 |
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I think there's going to be a few trainers turned RE Agents here soon SC.....if the drum is correct!
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Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Offline Points: 52012 |
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Ben Dorries Genetic testing in Ireland helped Danny O’Brien identify future Melbourne Cup winner Vow And Declare could be a superior stayer and now AFL legend Denis Pagan is using the same speed-gene profiling method with his team of horses. Pagan has already turned heads in the early days of his training career with talented two-year-old Johnny Get Angry running a pair of placings at Flemington and showing he would not be out of place in the Group I Victoria Derby. In the search for his first winner, Pagan sends another of his team to the races at Sandown on Wednesday with two-year-old gelding Frankie Two Angels to make his stable debut. Frankie Two Angels has been gelded since making his race debut for Troy and Leon Corstens in March, finishing sixth when starting from the outside barrier and settling last in a Listed 1200m race won by Larimer Street. Frankie Two Angels is rated a $6 chance in the Ladbrokes Same Game Multi Handicap (1300m) at Sandown – Pagan revealing how the gelding has been genetically tested. Just like O’Brien did in the journey towards Vow And Declare becoming the 2020 Melbourne Cup winner, among the tools Pagan uses in trying to identify the best races for his horses is a speed-gene test developed by Irish equine science group Plusvital. He sends vials of blood to Ireland for tests which analyse a horse’s DNA to establish the best distance at which it should race. And then Pagan can also cater a training regime to suit. “There are three categories - out and out sprinters over 1000-1200m who can maybe stretch to 1400(m), then there are horses who are probably 1300-2200m horses and the last category is horses who are at their best over 12 furlongs and longer,” Pagan told Racenet. “Johnny Get Angry falls into the third category and although I thought Frankie Two Angels would also fall into that category, he is in the second category. “I have had all my horses genetically tested but it’s only a guide. “Danny O’Brien got me thinking about genetic testing, he has done it with all his horses with good results. “How do you determine whether someone is a persistent individual, got mental toughness, desire, courage and all that sort of stuff – no-one knows until they get in and do it. “As I say it’s not the be-all and end-all, it’s only a guide, but it certainly helps you with training your horses when you know what they are capable of and where you should be going with them.” In what could be a pointer for punters, two-time AFL premiership winning coach Pagan says that early on he identified Frankie Two Angels as his stable’s top seed ahead of Johnny Get Angry. While Johnny Get Angry has gone for a short let-up before returning on a possible Victoria Derby mission, Pagan will know more on Wednesday about whether he can start some spring dreaming with Frankie Two Angels. “We have gelded him since he ran last – looking back I think he may have been going shinsore in the last couple of days before we raced him – he was OK to race but we tipped him out the next day and got him gelded and he has come back a nice horse,” Pagan said. “His two trials have been pretty good. “He certainly was the number one (stable) seed, a lovely looking Medaglia d'Oro horse out of a French staying mare. “I bought him to run over a trip but he has shown he has got more brilliance than Johnny Got Angry. “He has drawn well at Sandown on Wednesday and we will find out more about him, he is well weighted with Lachie King’s two-kilo claim.” |
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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TJMitchell
Champion Joined: 29 Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 16917 |
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"the last category is horses who are at their best over 12 furlongs and longer"
“Johnny Get Angry falls into the third category" 2 starts at 2 for Pagan over 1600-1800m would please djebel I would think
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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Yes, and despite not winning does not owe me anything.
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reductio ad absurdum
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Online Points: 45812 |
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Byron Rogers, a member on here as brogers, heads a company involved in genetic testing. He's Australian born and bred but has done a lot of work overseas both in Europe and the USA.
He hasn't posted for a while, however anyone interested can google him and find a bit more about this particular subject along with associated breeding theories/products.
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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He is clearly Australian. I wonder how many of his players he wishes he could have gelded ?
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reductio ad absurdum
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acacia alba
Champion Joined: 30 Oct 2010 Location: Hunter Valley Status: Offline Points: 41536 |
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Oh Geez,,,,,
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animals before people.
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Shawy38
Champion Joined: 13 Jun 2015 Status: Offline Points: 17414 |
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Wayne Carey would be at the top of that list
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Online Points: 45812 |
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Well it didn't take him long to win his first metro race.
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Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Offline Points: 52012 |
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Paid well too, despite the media coverage!
Too easy - Denis Pagan nails his first winnerIt only took Denis Pagan three years to win his first AFL coaching premiership at North Melbourne but his success as a racehorse trainer has been even more immediate. Winning a two-year-old race at the Sandown midweeks in front of no crowd can hardly compare to the giddy highs of claiming a pair of AFL flags with the Kangaroos in 1996 and 1999. But in some ways it can because the form guide showed Pagan was probably always going to be a success as an AFL coach, playing 143 games and taking a long coaching road before nailing a senior AFL job. He had no such pedigree as a racehorse trainer although he has owned many horses over the years and always had a keen interest in racing. The win of Frankie Two Angels at Sandown on Wednesday came only 18 days after having his first runner as a trainer, when Johnny Get Angry finished third at big odds at Flemington. Johnny Get Angry then showed he is a potential Victoria Derby contender when running second behind Alcyone at Flemington in the Listed Byerley Handicap at Flemington last Saturday. Pagan always thought Frankie Two Angels, who was making his stable debut on Wednesday after being gelded since having his first run for Troy and Leon Corstens in March, was potentially his top stable seed. But bookmakers let the galloper go out at $7.50 in the opener at Sandown on Wednesday and he won well despite pulling in the run under apprentice Lachie King. King settled Frankie Two Angels in fourth and he went for him a fair way out but the gelding kept finding to prevail for a tough and determined win and surely he will be better over longer distances. Pagan, now with his first winner and first city winner to his name, has made a golden start to his training career and you wouldn’t bet against him having significant future success. |
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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