Go to Villagebet.com.au for free horse racing tips - Click here now
Forum Home Forum Home > Horse Racing - Public Forums > Racing Forum
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Denis Pagan
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Thoroughbred Village Home Page. For village news, follow @TBVillage on Twitter. For horseracing tips, follow @Villagebet on Twitter. To contact the Mayor by email: Click Here.


Denis Pagan

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
Author
Message
Bonjour View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 25 Feb 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 8402
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bonjour Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Denis Pagan
    Posted: 01 Jul 2020 at 3:56pm
Denis Pagan, you know the retired vfl/afl coach is training from boxes at Flemington,????

How does that work? Leasing boxes from Leon and Troy? Starting off at 72 yo, Good old RVL, what about all those young trainers crying out for a chance to kick off at Headquarters and sent to the bush?

Is that fair and equatable? It stinks, it's not Corstens fault, he's their mate and they want to help out, that's admirable; what's not is allowing a 'name' a celebrity to queue jump some poor young fella/gal waiting in line after doing years and years as stablehands and then as a foreperson.

I would have thought there would have been a ruckus about this, but nada so far......shame, the boys club down there in Danistan is alive and well.
Back to Top
Carioca View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 13 Nov 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 21811
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2020 at 4:04pm
Now that is a joke, but nothing surprises me now in racing no matter where .
Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Premium
Premium
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 53960
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2020 at 4:36pm

Ben Dorries


AFL legend Denis Pagan kicks off new career at Flemington Saturday


AFL coaching legend Denis Pagan confesses he was hoping to have a low-key, no-fuss start to his new career as a horse trainer but realises that is probably long odds as he prepares to saddle up his first runner at Flemington on Saturday.

The 72-year-old two-time North Melbourne premiership coach knows his appearance in the training ranks will cause interest but jokes he will be trying to remain out of sight when two-year-old gelding Johnny Get Angry races at Victorian headquarters.

After serving a training apprenticeship of sorts under Troy and Leon Corstens, Pagan has been granted a training license and has half a dozen horses he will train out of Flemington from boxes sub-letted by the Corstens’.

They are all horses that Pagan owns himself – and will run in blue colours with white dots, white sleeves and a red cap that Pagan chose himself.

The AFL master coach insists he only wants a small team of horses and currently only wants to train his own horses – despite realising his public profile in Victoria will no doubt spark the interest of plenty of owners.

Pagan is keen to run his own race – so to speak – as he fulfils a desire to train horses that was sparked two years ago. 

“It is keeping me young and while I’m healthy and well and doing plenty of exercise, what else was I going to do?” Pagan said.

“I live close by to Flemington, it’s a two-minute drive in at 4am in the morning from my place to Flemington.

“I would have gone to the gym if I wasn’t going down to Flemington – but when you are going to the gym it doesn’t matter whether it is 4.45am or 5.30am as it doesn’t make any difference.

“But I know I have got to be down at Flemington by a certain time so I am in the first group.

“I keep waking up to check when my alarm is going off.

“Troy talked me into this two years ago and if it hadn’t have been for him it wouldn’t have happened – he helped me buy all my horses.

“I have already knocked some owners back but a pre-requisite of my license is I can only train for myself at this stage.

“I don’t want to be rude or anything but I’m not really into being a public trainer because I will have enough problems with my own horses at this stage of proceedings and I don’t want to be dealing with other people.”

Pagan raced horses for many years before taking the plunge into training – estimating he has owned “25 or 30” horses throughout his life.

A quick look at the form of his first runner Johnny Get Angry, which ran 13th of 14th behind Cherry Tortoni over 1420m at Flemington on June 20, might dissuade punters from thinking he has a hope as he makes his first appearance for Pagan on Saturday.

But as Johnny Get Angry races in Stakes grade in the $120,000 Listed Taj Rossi Series Final (1600m) at Flemington on Saturday, Pagan feels the gelding’s only career run to date was a forgive effort.

Having said that, he admits he will be “over the moon” if his galloper can get within three lengths of the unbeaten and highly promising Cherry Tortoni on Saturday.

“I like my horse – but he is going to be a bit more suited when he gets over 10 or 12 furlongs,” Pagan said.

“He had one run a couple of weeks ago at Flemington and was three-wide without any cover, I thought he did pretty well even though his result in the paper 13th out of 14 didn’t look any good.

“But if you watch the replay, a lot of good judges have said that it wasn’t a bad run.

“He has drawn a bit better Saturday (barrier five) and I cant see him beating Paddy Payne’s horse (Cherry Tortoni) but if he can get within three lengths of them I will be over the moon.”

Apprentice Lachlan King will ride Pagan’s first runner on Saturday.

Johnny Get Angry was posted as a $126 chance in opening markets on tab.com.au

If you want more information about Pagan's racing journey towards being a trainer, you can read Brad Waters' story which was published on Racenet in August last year by clicking HERE



Brad WatersBrad WatersArticle Author
Brad Waters

The drive that propelled Denis Pagan to coach two AFL premierships has been transferred to his desire to gain a Victorian trainer’s licence.

Pagan coached North Melbourne, led by the great Wayne Carey, to AFL flags in 1996 and 1999 to complement his five premierships at Under 19 level before getting the main job at the Kangaroos.

Now 71, Pagan’s involvement in football ended when he left the Carlton Football Club, which was a basket case when he arrived, with a third of the season remaining in 2007.

Pagan has run a successful real estate business in Melbourne with his son Ryan since stepping away from football but he has raced horses for many years before taking the plunge into training.

He has a pre-trainer’s licence and works with a small team of his own horses at Leon and Troy Corstens’ Flemington stable but Pagan wants to train them in his own right.

“I’ve got a pre-trainer’s licence and in a couple of months’ time when I build up my stable, I’ll apply for a trainer’s licence,” Pagan said.

“I only want to train six of my own.

“Troy is subletting boxes to me and I’m loving what I’m doing with the horses.

“I’m doing everything but I can only train my horses up until 28 days from them trialling, that’s part of my brief.”

Pagan is happy to start at the bottom, taking the saddles to the stables on raceday before stepping back to allow Corstens and others do the pre-race work while he watches intently.

Watching Pagan during the saddling process, one would see the eyes that stared down the likes of Carey, Glenn Archer and later Brendan Fevola during his football days never leave the horse while he takes in everything around.

Pagan asks plenty of questions of Corstens, and later well-known track rider Joe Agresta of Bart Cummings stable fame. The passion to compete is still in Pagan.

“I won’t be defeated by hard work,” Pagan said.

“There’s no fool like an old fool.”

Pagan was known for his use of sayings when simplifying his thoughts for his players or the press during his time in footy and he knows he won’t have a champion like Carey in his racing stable.

However, he said his horses would be one step ahead of footballers when he starts training.

“Wayne Carey, Jacko the blind miner could have trained him,” Pagan said.

“They (the horses) can’t go out and have a drink and be silly on the nights before races though.

“If I’ve got a bad horse, I don’t think there’s any trainer that can turn cow manure into strawberry jam.”

reductio ad absurdum
Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Premium
Premium
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 53960
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2020 at 4:39pm

DON'T RUSH RUBY (AUS)
Bay or brown filly 2017 
Eurozone
Chestnut 2010
Northern Meteor
Bay 2005
Encosta de Lago
Bay 1993
Fairy King
Bay 1982
Northern Dancer
Fairy Bridge
1961
1975
2-d
5-h
Shoal Creek
Chestnut 1988
Star Way
Rolls
1977
1984
6-e
4-g
Explosive
Bay 1990
Fappiano
Bay 1977
Mr Prospector
Killaloe
1970
1970
13-c
16-a
Scuff
Chestnut 1979
Forli
Moccasin
1963
1963
3-b
5-h
Miss Vandal
Bay 1998
Don't Say Halo
Bay or brown 1982
Halo
Bay or brown 1969
Hail to Reason
Cosmah
1958
1953
4-n
2-d
Never Babble
Bay or brown 1976
Advocator
Never Hula
1963
1969
12-c
1-s
Zabatac
Bay 1990
Zabaleta
Bay 1983
Shecky Greene
Winver
1970
1972
13-c
9-b
Christmas Gift
Brown 1981
Arch Sculptor
Santa Baby
1973
1966
1-l
20>
Elegant Rush
Bay 2009
Dylan Thomas
Bay 2003
Danehill
Bay 1986
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Pas de Nom
1961
1968
2-d
7-a
Razyana
Bay 1981
His Majesty
Spring Adieu
1968
1974
4-d
2-d
Lagrion
Chestnut 1989
Diesis
Chestnut 1980
Sharpen Up
Doubly Sure
1969
1971
5-i
2-o
Wrap It Up
Chestnut 1979
Mount Hagen
Doc Nan
1971
1963
1-p
9-c
Hit and Giggle
Bay 1994
Marauding
Bay 1984
Sir Tristram
Bay 1971
Sir Ivor
Isolt
1965
1961
8-g
6-e
Biscalowe
Chestnut 1979
Biscay
Nunkalowe
1965
1972
2-o
4-i
Humour
Bay 1989
Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981
Northern Dancer
Fairy Bridge
1961
1975
2-d
5-h
Princess Tracy
Bay 1981
Ahonoora
Princess Ru
1975
1962
1-m
8-c
 Ancestor duplications:Northern Dancer5m x 5m,5m Fairy Bridge5m x 5m
reductio ad absurdum
Back to Top
Bonjour View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 25 Feb 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 8402
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bonjour Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2020 at 4:40pm
That's even worse than what I wrote on the integrity thread......a pre-trainers license and at Flemington? Oh shoot me...what's next.
Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Premium
Premium
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 53960
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2020 at 4:42pm
FRANKIE TWO ANGELS (AUS)Bay gelding 2017 
Medaglia d'Oro
Bay or brown 1999
El Prado
Grey 1989
Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Fairy Bridge
Bay 1975
Bold Reason
Special
1968
1969
19-b
5-h
Lady Capulet
Grey 1974
Sir Ivor
Bay 1965
Sir Gaylord
Attica
1959
1953
2-s
8-g
Cap and Bells
Grey 1958
Tom Fool
Ghazni
1949
1942
3-j
1-l
Cappucino Bay
Bay 1989
Bailjumper
Bay 1974
Damascus
Bay 1964
Sword Dancer
Kerala
1956
1958
1-o
8-h
Court Circuit
Bay 1964
Royal Vale
Cycle
1948
1958
9-e
13-c
Dubbed In
Chestnut 1973
Silent Screen
Chestnut 1967
Prince John
Prayer Bell
1953
1954
14-f
9-b
Society Singer
Chestnut 1968
Restless Wind
Social Position
1956
1964
5-g
9-b
Kassama
Bay 2010
Nayef
Bay 1998
Gulch
Bay 1984
Mr Prospector
Bay 1970
Raise a Native
Gold Digger
1961
1962
8-f
13-c
Jameela
Bay or brown 1976
Rambunctious
Asbury Mary
1960
1969
19>
A4
Height of Fashion
Bay 1979
Bustino
Bay 1971
Busted
Ship Yard
1963
1963
2-s
1-w
Highclere
Bay 1971
Queen's Hussar
Highlight
1960
1958
19-c
2-f
Kasatana
Bay 2004
Hernando
Bay 1990
Niniski
Bay 1976
Nijinsky
Virginia Hills
1967
1971
8-f
16-b
Whakilyric
Bay 1984
Miswaki
Lyrism
1978
1979
16-g
13-b
Kassiyda
Bay 1986
Mill Reef
Bay 1968
Never Bend
Milan Mill
1960
1962
19-b
22-d
Kadissya
Bay 1979
Blushing Groom
Kalkeen
1974
1974
22-d
5-e
reductio ad absurdum
Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Premium
Premium
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 53960
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2020 at 4:43pm
JOHNNY GET ANGRY (NZ)Bay gelding 2017 
Tavistock
Bay 2005
Montjeu
Bay 1996
Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Fairy Bridge
Bay 1975
Bold Reason
Special
1968
1969
19-b
5-h
Floripedes
Bay 1985
Top Ville
Bay 1976
High Top
Sega Ville
1969
1968
11-a
8-i
Toute Cy
Bay 1979
Tennyson
Adele Toumignon
1970
1971
1-t
1-u
Upstage
Bay 1998
Quest for Fame
Bay or brown 1987
Rainbow Quest
Bay 1981
Blushing Groom
I Will Follow
1974
1975
22-d
14-f
Aryenne
Bay 1977
Green Dancer
Americaine
1972
1968
16-c
4-i
Pedestal
Chestnut 1986
High Line
Chestnut 1966
High Hat
Time Call
1957
1955
2-o
5-e
Mrs Moss
Chestnut 1969
Reform
Golden Plate
1964
1964
5-h
14-b
Luminova
Bay 2008
Zabeel
Bay 1986
Sir Tristram
Bay 1971
Sir Ivor
Bay 1965
Sir Gaylord
Attica
1959
1953
2-s
8-g
Isolt
Bay 1961
Round Table
All My Eye
1954
1954
2-f
6-e
Lady Giselle
Bay 1982
Nureyev
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Special
1961
1969
2-d
5-h
Valderna
Bay 1972
Val de Loir
Derna
1959
1961
5-h
16-c
Pavlova
Bay 2002
Singspiel
Bay 1992
In the Wings
Bay 1986
Sadler's Wells
High Hawk
1981
1980
5-h
9-e
Glorious Song
Bay 1976
Halo
Ballade
1969
1972
2-d
12-c
Hospitable
Bay 1990
Luskin Star
Chestnut 1974
Kaoru Star
Promising
1965
1968
31>
2-e
Fetoon
Brown 1985
Persian Bold
Hardihostess
1975
1980
9-h
1-l
 Ancestor duplications:Northern Dancer4m x 5m Sadler's Wells3m x 5m Special5f x 5m
reductio ad absurdum
Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Premium
Premium
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 53960
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2020 at 4:45pm
Let It Rip ReggieCH Gelding 2017  
Ocean Park (NZ)
Bay 2008
Thorn Park
Chestnut 1999
Spinning World
Chestnut 1993
Nureyev
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Special
1961
1969
2-d
5-h
Imperfect Circle
Bay or brown 1988
Riverman
Aviance
1969
1982
10-a
8-f
Joy
Bay 1993
Bluebird
Bay 1984
Storm Bird
Ivory Dawn
1978
1978
4-j
9-b
Christmas Spirit
Bay 1986
Bletchingly
Joy and Fun
1970
1978
7-a
16-c
Sayyida
Bay 2000
Zabeel
Bay 1986
Sir Tristram
Bay 1971
Sir Ivor
Isolt
1965
1961
8-g
6-e
Lady Giselle
Bay 1982
Nureyev
Valderna
1977
1972
5-h
16-c
Eastern Princess
Bay 1991
Pompeii Court
Bay 1977
Tell
Port Damascus
1966
1971
2-f
1-p
Benazir
Bay 1984
Vice Regal
Hunza
1973
1970
3-e
13-b
Jungle Juice (NZ)
Bay 2006
Jungle Pocket
Bay 1998
Tony Bin
Bay 1983
Kampala
Brown 1976
Kalamoun
State Pension
1970
1967
9-c
7-a
Severn Bridge
Chestnut 1965
Hornbeam
Priddy Fair
1953
1956
1-p
19-b
Dance Charmer
Bay or brown 1990
Nureyev
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Special
1961
1969
2-d
5-h
Skillful Joy
Chestnut 1979
Nodouble
Skillful Miss
1965
1974
A1
11-g
Shadow Ray
Chestnut 1997
Groom Dancer
Bay 1984
Blushing Groom
Chestnut 1974
Red God
Runaway Bride
1954
1962
8-c
22-d
Featherhill
Bay 1978
Lyphard
Lady Berry
1969
1970
17-b
14>
Caricatura
Bay or brown 1978
Mr Prospector
Bay 1970
Raise a Native
Gold Digger
1961
1962
8-f
13-c
Straight Street
Bay or brown 1974
Never Bend
Native Street
1960
1963
19-b
3-d
 Ancestor duplications:
reductio ad absurdum
Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Premium
Premium
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 53960
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2020 at 4:46pm
My Squeeze Louise Br filly 2017 
Mongolian Khan (AUS)
Bay 2011
Holy Roman Emperor
Bay 2004
Danehill
Bay 1986
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Pas de Nom
1961
1968
2-d
7-a
Razyana
Bay 1981
His Majesty
Spring Adieu
1968
1974
4-d
2-d
L'On Vite
Bay 1986
Secretariat
Chestnut 1970
Bold Ruler
Somethingroyal
1954
1952
8-d
2-s
Fanfreluche
Bay 1967
Northern Dancer
Ciboulette
1961
1961
2-d
4-g
Centafit
Black 1992
Centaine
Brown 1980
Century
Brown 1969
Better Boy
Royal Suite
1951
1960
2-n
20>
Rainbeam
Bay 1973
Vain
Rain Shadow
1966
1967
A10
C7
Galopede
Brown 1983
Three Legs
Grey 1972
Petingo
Teodora
1965
1963
22>
13-a
Regal Step
Chestnut 1977
Imperial March
Aristocracy
1972
1966
10-c
10-d
Envy Me (NZ)
Grey 2002
Kashani
Bay 1990
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Pas de Nom
Bay or brown 1968
Admiral's Voyage
Petitioner
1959
1952
4-n
7-a
Kashan
Bay 1977
Damascus
Bay 1964
Sword Dancer
Kerala
1956
1958
1-o
8-h
Durga
Chestnut 1966
Tatan
Durani
1952
1960
10-d
1-l
Gucci
Grey 1985
Sir Tristram
Bay 1971
Sir Ivor
Bay 1965
Sir Gaylord
Attica
1959
1953
2-s
8-g
Isolt
Bay 1961
Round Table
All My Eye
1954
1954
2-f
6-e
Puzzi
Grey 1973
Dancer's Image
Grey 1965
Native Dancer
Noors Image
1950
1953
5-f
4-r
Sally's Market
Chestnut 1965
To Market
Salvia
1948
1959
10-a
8-g
 Ancestor duplications:Northern Dancer5m,5f x 4m Danzig4m x 3m
reductio ad absurdum
Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Premium
Premium
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 53960
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2020 at 4:48pm
Samantha No Show B FILLY 2018 
Preferment (NZ)
Bay 2011
Zabeel
Bay 1986
Sir Tristram
Bay 1971
Sir Ivor
Bay 1965
Sir Gaylord
Attica
1959
1953
2-s
8-g
Isolt
Bay 1961
Round Table
All My Eye
1954
1954
2-f
6-e
Lady Giselle
Bay 1982
Nureyev
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Special
1961
1969
2-d
5-h
Valderna
Bay 1972
Val de Loir
Derna
1959
1961
5-h
16-c
Better Alternative
Bay or brown 2003
Flying Spur
Bay 1992
Danehill
Bay 1986
Danzig
Razyana
1977
1981
7-a
2-d
Rolls
Chestnut 1984
Mr Prospector
Grand Luxe
1970
1974
13-c
4-g
Ancient Lights
Brown 1995
Canny Lad
Brown 1987
Bletchingly
Jesmond Lass
1970
1975
7-a
14>
Hello Lottie
Bay 1986
Beau Sovereign
Ancient Sky
1968
1979
1-u
1-o
Khatereh (AUS)
Bay 2013
Galileo
Bay 1998
Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Fairy Bridge
Bay 1975
Bold Reason
Special
1968
1969
19-b
5-h
Urban Sea
Chestnut 1989
Miswaki
Chestnut 1978
Mr Prospector
Hopespringseternal
1970
1971
13-c
16-g
Allegretta
Chestnut 1978
Lombard
Anatevka
1967
1969
1-d
9-h
Kite Mark
Chestnut 1998
Mark of Esteem
Bay 1993
Darshaan
Brown 1981
Shirley Heights
Delsy
1975
1972
1-l
13-c
Homage
Bay 1989
Ajdal
Home Love
1984
1976
7>
17-b
Shadywood
Chestnut 1982
Habitat
Bay 1966
Sir Gaylord
Little Hut
1959
1952
2-s
4-r
Milly Moss
Chestnut 1970
Crepello
Bally's Mil
1954
1964
16-d
2-o
 Ancestor duplications:Sir Gaylord5m x 5m Northern Dancer5m x 4m Special5m x 5f 
  Mr Prospector5f x 5m
reductio ad absurdum
Back to Top
max manewer View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 32947
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max manewer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2020 at 4:51pm
SPAM !!!!!!!! The Mayor will need to revoke your "premium" status !
Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Premium
Premium
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 53960
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2020 at 4:53pm
LOL

Think I will have a lot hate keyboard warrior relationship with this bloke.

Clearly likes a stayer - love him. 

All the males are geldings - He can get kissed.
reductio ad absurdum
Back to Top
Carioca View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 13 Nov 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 21811
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2020 at 6:24pm
Ho hum, the one saving grace in this beautiful country is they all get a chance to pursue their dreams, but Flemington for one so inexperienced, good luck.
Back to Top
SkyDancer View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 02 Aug 2014
Location: Cranbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 8429
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SkyDancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2020 at 6:38pm
Originally posted by Bonjour Bonjour wrote:

That's even worse than what I wrote on the integrity thread......a pre-trainers license and at Flemington? Oh shoot me...what's next.

That article about the pre trainers license is from last August
He has a full license now 
Back to Top
Gay3 View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group


Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Location: Miners Rest
Status: Offline
Points: 51987
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2020 at 6:48pm
I think Bonjour is astounded by the fact any pre trainer can aquire boxes at a metrop complex, at any time & frankly, so am I Shocked
Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
Back to Top
Carioca View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 13 Nov 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 21811
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2020 at 7:13pm
Well frankly so am I , but I stopped my post in case I went overboard LOL what can you say, it's been done so let sleeping dogs lie so they say, the cutting of corners in everything we do today is now part of life.Ouch

Edited by Gay3 - 01 Jul 2020 at 7:31pm
Back to Top
Second Chance View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 45686
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2020 at 7:37pm
Another side of the coin, mind you, is how many Flemington trainers have full stables these days?  For whatever reason, including declining patronage, diversification etc.  Relative to Pagan for instance, The Corstens crew have three training bases, Flemington, Geelong and Lurg in NE-Vic.

There's only about 20 trainers there these days, a number of which are satellites for the likes of Hawkes, Freedman, Snowden, McEvoy, Waller, O'Brien, Bott etc.  Between carnivals even these people could have any number of unused boxes.

Trainers have to pay for their allocated number of boxes, if they can't fill them it's dead money, and I reckon more than a couple would welcome someone like Pagan do help defray expenses.  

And it's not like there's a huge queue of trainers at the VRC door clamoring for space these days.  Times change, and it's now easier to secure boxes at alternate training bases outside the metropolitan area.

Just playing the devil's advocate given changing times, and more than happy to be rebuffed.  Smile
Back to Top
SkyDancer View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 02 Aug 2014
Location: Cranbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 8429
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SkyDancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2020 at 8:07pm
I don’t see a problem. He has a couple of horses at Corstens stable which would otherwise sit empty. 
Back to Top
Carioca View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 13 Nov 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 21811
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2020 at 8:14pm
You have missed the point altogether , irrespective of mt boxes or not he really ( being of no experience at all ) should not start at the No.1 training track, you had to earn your right of passage to be their, but I don't expect you to understand.

Reply to SC above Smile


Edited by Gay3 - 01 Jul 2020 at 8:35pm
Back to Top
Bonjour View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 25 Feb 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 8402
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bonjour Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2020 at 9:26pm
I was a foreman at Caulfield for years SC, I had to wait, I didn't want Caulfield as to me if they allowed me onto Flemington it would be the holy grail.

Yes it's a changing world and yes we know trainers have to pay for empty boxes, but it was and always should be, a right of passage onto a metro track once you have done the hard yards.

NO pre=trainer should be allowed onto a metro track.......for obvious reasons, and Denis should go to an outer track to earn his stripes......IMHO
Back to Top
Bonjour View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 25 Feb 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 8402
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bonjour Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2020 at 9:29pm
Can I add, when I was at Flemington Leon was Barts foreman....you reckon Bart wouldn't have barked loudly if that happened then? betcha booties.
Back to Top
SkyDancer View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 02 Aug 2014
Location: Cranbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 8429
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SkyDancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2020 at 12:22am
It’s not the 80’s anymore. Times have changed 
Back to Top
Carioca View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 13 Nov 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 21811
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2020 at 1:22am
Yes I know SD, and there's a couple of riders today earning big money very grateful of the fact it isn't.Wink
Back to Top
Bonjour View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 25 Feb 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 8402
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bonjour Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2020 at 8:37am
And I think we are going to hear more about them shortly Carioca.
Back to Top
Bonjour View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 25 Feb 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 8402
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bonjour Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2020 at 8:42am
Originally posted by SkyDancer SkyDancer wrote:

It’s not the 80’s anymore. Times have changed 

Yep, you're right on......no Weir's, Aquanita, Curries, Kavanagh's, Smith's etc back then......
Back to Top
Second Chance View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 45686
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2020 at 10:40am
Understand the feelings expressed by traditionalists.

However another "mind you" is that Flemington is no longer Victoria's premier training track.  It probably rates 3rd at best behind Ballarat and Cranbourne with Pakenham at least as good.  

The majority of up and comers who've have done their apprenticeships simply don't want to train at Flemington nowadays.  They're more interested in Ballarat, Cranbourne, Pakenham, Mornington and other venues which have all the facilities and where it's cheaper to maintain an establishment either on or off course..
Back to Top
Bonjour View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 25 Feb 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 8402
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bonjour Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2020 at 11:27am
That's a good synopsis SC, I have another take on it, young trainers wanting to buy a house and raise a family don't have the money to buy a family home within striking distance of Flemington.

In addition do they really want to live with the inner city elites as neighbours?

The country offers horses a chance to spend their days in yards/paddocks in fresh air, good for man and beast. However, being the traditionalist I am, I would prefer to having boxes on course in a nice barn with full facilities on hand......exception.......I'm a walking machine, I absolutely detest seeing mine on a machine, hand walking them, I can't explain it, you just have to understand, and it's hard to hand walk them at Flemington.

In the good old days we used to walk them down the hill behind the grandstands, along the river and sometimes around the entire course of an afternoon........it's what you did, and you loved it......all of us.....sigh.
Back to Top
SkyDancer View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 02 Aug 2014
Location: Cranbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 8429
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SkyDancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2020 at 11:40am
If you think cheating wasn’t around back then, you are deluded. 
Back to Top
Shawy38 View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 13 Jun 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 17379
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shawy38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2020 at 11:44am
Wouldn’t want to train in the city these days.
Give me a country stable anyday. 
Look at the set up at Ballarat, Pakenham. Even Cranbourne.  All leave the city facilities for dead. 
Back to Top
Bonjour View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 25 Feb 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 8402
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bonjour Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2020 at 12:16pm
Originally posted by SkyDancer SkyDancer wrote:

If you think cheating wasn’t around back then, you are deluded. 

There's cheating and there's cheating, they had smarts back then, of course we gave one a run, but nowadays these people are thick as, and full of it......
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.05
Copyright ©2001-2022 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.125 seconds.