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Deep Field retired to Newgate

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smallbreeder View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smallbreeder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2015 at 7:14pm
[QUOTE=Biggles]I wouldn't mind betting he gets more than ten in the Easter Yearling Sale. Look how popular Smart Missile has been, this has a lot to do with being related to Northern Meteor, and he wasn't a Gr 1 winner. Also it's not only about the sale results I think he is the real deal and will be a good sire. [/QUOTE

How would you rate DREAMSCAPE, stood at the good stud, same owner and related.


Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from behind or a fool from any direction
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bradjm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2015 at 7:27pm
Originally posted by smallbreeder smallbreeder wrote:


Originally posted by Second Chance Second Chance wrote:



He may well succeed, but simply can't see him being overly commercial early on.
 
Depending on the quality of his mares he might get 4 or 5 into Easter, maybe 10 at Melb Prem and 15 at MM which are the only sales where you stand a chance of turning a regular profit above costs of about $40k to get there.
 
Which means there'll be 80-100 or so in each of the first three years that'll either be sold at a loss or retained to race at breeder's risk.
 
However good luck and good fortune to those who consider him the real deal.

THE SCAM

The top 10 yearlings will be bought by a stallion owner, that's called "marketing". They will be shared among "dummy" clients, who don't know what's going on. Those top 10 yearlings will be either owned by the stud who stands the stallion (that's called a loyalty bonus) OR they are foal shares with the stallion owner. Free publicity with 7 times more convincing power than a paid "Ad", all for the price of "half commission" at the sales. Works every time, dummys keep jumping off the cliff.

200 mares covered, maximum 50 sell at a profit. Dumb breeder races the rest, and loses $1000s or sells and loses $1000s Thumbs Down



That's why you go third year at half the price and hope they run, at least by then you can assess the mares he's had and the trainers who bought them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aurelius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2015 at 7:29pm
It is ridiculous.

The hype on a horse that won a group 2.

And you are correct the industry is floated by dummies. The ducks you shoot at the Easter carnival with a slug gun they just keep popping up.

I think he will be a decent stallion but the hype you have evidenced on here co firms you will pay overs.

As for the scams it doesn't surprise me at all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bradjm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2015 at 7:50pm
Sort the wheat from the chaff, people go crazy over euro sprinters who usually fail.

Here we have a stallion who's race record is pretty much the same as his fathers bar a ridiculously week coolmore, he had undoubted ability as we saw , sure he didn't go on but that could be the trainer or the testicles, nm had to be switched to gai to get the best out of him.



20 is overs but if they dont set it at that he won't get into good sales

A lot of the problem lays with the sales companies.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Biggles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2015 at 9:40am
small breeder you are very cynical and you just ' don't get it'. With a relatively small draft I sold over $2 million dollars worth of yearlings at Easter. I was not approached by anyone to do any shonky deals and we had a great sale. Knowing what I know I can tell you that James Harron bought the $1.6 mil Sepoy colt from Turannga Stud; that would have been for Dr Bateman or a stallion syndication with Peter Snowden. Stewart Ramsey may retain a share but that is his prerogative, and with the horse selling so well why wouldn't he? The top selling So You Think colt $500,000 was bought by Coolmore but was a legitimate sale by a small breeder who was not asked to buy back into him and it was not a foal share. The top Smart Missile $425,000 was in the Widden draft and was bought by Anton Koolman for Hong Kong. The second top S. M. $420,000 was bought by Peter Moody and there were no deals done there. The top Northern Meteor $540,000 filly was sold to Sheik bin Khalifa and was a stunning type that sold way above the pedigree page. Quite a few breeders ask to buy back into yearlings that have sold well and they really like. I can't see a problem with that. The international buyers were so dominant at Easter and they don't even consider doing anything underhand. Plenty of people stabled around us had brilliant sales and were over the moon; but there were quite a few that had yearlings by unpopular stallions that did no good at all.
By the way I never rated Dreamscape; didn't like him as a type and he just didn't grab me. Likewise Your Song also owned by Gooree, nice type but not much else going for him. Another thing is people don't go crazy over European sprinters, Dream Aheads were very hard to sell and he was absolutely top class in Europe. It's all about Aussie speed these days.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aurelius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2015 at 10:00am
Interesting point about the weak Coolmore.

Saves any hassles tho' he rarely ventures into breeding Wink


Edited by Gay3 - 12 Apr 2015 at 10:11am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2015 at 1:16pm
the Sepoy/Ancient Song colt in Turannga draft belonged to Laurel Oak/Ancient Song syndicate, not the Ramseys. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qlder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2015 at 1:29pm
Excellent female family and a nice out cross for danehill lined mares. He will knick EXCEPTIONALLY WELL with Redoutes Choice. Whilst he didn't win a gr1 on the track neither did Commands and he turned out alright. I think Deep Field will probably go well at stud.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Biggles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2015 at 4:21pm
Well that's great for Louis and the Laurel Oak team!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2015 at 4:39pm
Well Commands did keep running into Testa Rossa and Redoute's Choice.  Gee that was a good crop or racehorses who went on to perform at stud. Hopefully like the crop of young stallions with their first crop as yearlings this year.  They were an exceptional crop of two year olds so here's hoping.

Both Deep Field and Smart Missile have good points for crossing to them in pedigrees.  But like everyone else we'll find out in a few years how they go.  The greatest racehorses sometimes fail while the horse that runs second to them time and again come out on top.  No surefire wand to wave over a horse to tell one way or another.

Redoute's Choice had another G1 winner in South Africa over night (she's won at that level before) and the third filly was also Australian bred from the family of I am Invincible.  He never won a G1 race but he's sired a G1 winner and from 89 runners has had 55 winners, 15 placed and 5 stakes winners.  That is pity good running in anyones books.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lordy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2015 at 5:50pm
Originally posted by qlder qlder wrote:

Excellent female family and a nice out cross for danehill lined mares. He will knick EXCEPTIONALLY WELL with Redoutes Choice. Whilst he didn't win a gr1 on the track neither did Commands and he turned out alright. I think Deep Field will probably go well at stud.

There have been a number of comparisons to Commands in the DF discussions. We must remember that Commands started as a $10k stallion and earned his strips though his production, not by hype.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Biggles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2015 at 7:22pm
Commands went to stud before local stallions were all the rage. He still had some very good sales with his first crop yearlings.       
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote whitt0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2015 at 6:01pm
@Newgate on Friday. He is an outstanding type. He will have a busy first season.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vincent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2015 at 6:18pm
Can only suggest they sack the photographer or alternatively call on his photoshop skills.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Beliskner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2015 at 6:30pm
I'm assuming rather strongly this is not an "official" photo Vincent.

I see zero attempts at photo-shop and the horse, rather strangely, looks a lot like a regular, normal horse.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2015 at 6:40pm
Race track ability has nothing to do with looks.

“The probability of a certain set of circumstances coming together in a meaningful (or tragic) way is so low that it simply cannot be considered mere coincidence. ”
― V.C. King
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote whitt0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2015 at 6:47pm
Originally posted by Vincent Vincent wrote:

Can only suggest they sack the photographer or alternatively call on his photoshop skills.

That would be sacking me & my iphone5.

As for photoshop - I wouldnt know where to start.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Biggles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2015 at 6:53pm
Whitto, how could you get such a bad photo? When we went to see him a few days ago he stood perfectly with his ears pricked every time the leader stood him up. I thought he was outstanding in every way and he will be given every opportunity to succeed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vincent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2015 at 6:55pm
Congrats on owning up to the the mea culpa Whitt0.  Star
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote whitt0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2015 at 7:01pm
Originally posted by Biggles Biggles wrote:

Whitto, how could you get such a bad photo? When we went to see him a few days ago he stood perfectly with his ears pricked every time the leader stood him up. I thought he was outstanding in every way and he will be given every opportunity to succeed.

Agree.

That was the best of my photos...you dont want to see the ones I took at Arrowfield or Vinery then.
 
I will save the staged photos for the glossy magazines & websites.
 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Biggles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2015 at 7:05pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2015 at 9:25pm
Originally posted by Vincent Vincent wrote:

Can only suggest they sack the photographer or alternatively call on his photoshop skills.

Oh get a life ! Cry  fiddlesticks.   People take  happy snaps.    Its not life or death stuff.    People take happy snaps of horses, and we like to see them.  Well, I do, and I bet most of the others here do , too .
Doesnt mean its professional la-de-da stuff.  And the person taking the pic doesnt claim to be professional. 
Whats your problem, Vincent ??




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote whitt0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2015 at 6:50am
$20k + gst
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2015 at 7:08am
Crazy.
reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote whitt0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2015 at 7:12am
I am going to look at stallion inflation across all the major studs.

Despite a declining foal crop and more stallions coming online this year, fees for some studs on avg are taking a big rise.

Going to be interesting to see some of the the deals come September
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lordy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2015 at 7:46am
Originally posted by whitt0 whitt0 wrote:

$20k + gst

The price you've been quoting all along. It's big overs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bradjm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2015 at 8:29am
Hes about an 11k stallion

And a third year punt if they to about 8k in that season after deals, about the same as iai





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Biggles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2015 at 8:58am
BOOK FULL !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote whitt0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2015 at 9:01am
Sure is. And they are going to work on a selection basis. 

Better mares get a gig whilst others will miss out.  They will have to have that sorted by June I would have thought.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote goldey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2015 at 9:20am
Massive risk for a stallion that was obviously a little injury prone , not saying he was unsound, but if my budget was 20k he wouldn't be in the top 10 picks . Unfortunately the top end don't care about breeding a winner they care about paying down the investment early , by cashing in on the fashion element of new stallions , very risky for the buyer but maybe the spruik will sell them well at the sales initially , which is good for the seller .
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