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Dalasan

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djebel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 2:25pm
Why is racing beyond 1600m poor in Australia compared with Europe.

I have offered up my reason for that, what is your reasoning.

Stop telling us it is gelati beyond 1600m and tell us why it is so. 




reductio ad absurdum



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Jamal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 2:26pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

You do not even know why you have the view that you have.

I follow ratings. Thats actual science and data behind them. What do you follow or use? Everyone (well most) knows European racing is the best in the world at 1600m+. The ratings say that. Time you acknowledged it. But you only acknowledge ratings when it suits your view. 
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 2:26pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Why is racing beyond 1600m poor in Australia compared with Europe.

I have offered up my reason for that, what is your reasoning.

Stop telling us it is gelati beyond 1600m and tell us why it is so. 

I follow ratings. Thats actual science and data behind them. What do you follow or use? Everyone (well most) knows European racing is the best in the world at 1600m+. The ratings say that. Time you acknowledged it. But you only acknowledge ratings when it suits your view. 
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 2:28pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Why is racing beyond 1600m poor in Australia compared with Europe.

I have offered up my reason for that, what is your reasoning.

Stop telling us it is gelati beyond 1600m and tell us why it is so. 

The more you tell me to stop, the more ill keep saying it. Listen, when B and C Grade horses from Europe win G1 1600m+ races in Australia,  that tells you all you need to know about how poor depthwise Australian racing sadly is at 1600m+ 
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 2:29pm
What the kiss has that got to do with the reasoning as to why they are or aren't superior to us at 1600m and beyond.






reductio ad absurdum



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 2:33pm
Djebel - its a pretty poor look if B and C Grade horses from Europe can win 1600m+ G1 races in Australia? Australian racing is in a bad position right now and has been for at least a decade. The depth is not there at 1600m+ or are you simply in denial? In case you didn't know, there's levels to this, there's levels to world racing and there is no way Australian racing is strong depthwise at 1600m+ in the world. Sprinting - yes. Although I reckon this current sprinting era isn't as strong as previous sprinting eras in Australia....your thoughts?
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 2:36pm
You are not the sharpest tool in the shed are you.

Plenty of A graders have come down here and gone backwards and or plateaued. Some have clearly thrived. 

Are you going to tell us that Constantinople and Michalengelo were not A graders up there ? 




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 2:40pm
Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

Djebel - its a pretty poor look if B and C Grade horses from Europe can win 1600m+ G1 races in Australia? Australian racing is in a bad position right now and has been for at least a decade. The depth is not there at 1600m+ or are you simply in denial? In case you didn't know, there's levels to this, there's levels to world racing and there is no way Australian racing is strong depthwise at 1600m+ in the world. Sprinting - yes. Although I reckon this current sprinting era isn't as strong as previous sprinting eras in Australia....your thoughts?

Stop telling us this nonsense and start telling us WHY ? 




reductio ad absurdum



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 2:41pm
Once again abusing me. Keep abusing me and I'll keep calling your garbage out. Ball is in your court Djebel. 

You've cherry picked two horses. Now I put this to you...how many B and C Grade horses from Europe have done well in Australia. Start your list...it will take you a while to compile.
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 2:43pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

Djebel - its a pretty poor look if B and C Grade horses from Europe can win 1600m+ G1 races in Australia? Australian racing is in a bad position right now and has been for at least a decade. The depth is not there at 1600m+ or are you simply in denial? In case you didn't know, there's levels to this, there's levels to world racing and there is no way Australian racing is strong depthwise at 1600m+ in the world. Sprinting - yes. Although I reckon this current sprinting era isn't as strong as previous sprinting eras in Australia....your thoughts?

Stop telling us this nonsense and start telling us WHY ? 

I've already told you why. B and C Grade horses from Europe come to Australia regularly (either still trained internationally or based in Australia) and win G1s at 1600m+.....now tell me....how many B and C Grade horses from Australia would win G1s in Europe at 1600m+ as regularly??
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 2:44pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

Djebel - its a pretty poor look if B and C Grade horses from Europe can win 1600m+ G1 races in Australia? Australian racing is in a bad position right now and has been for at least a decade. The depth is not there at 1600m+ or are you simply in denial? In case you didn't know, there's levels to this, there's levels to world racing and there is no way Australian racing is strong depthwise at 1600m+ in the world. Sprinting - yes. Although I reckon this current sprinting era isn't as strong as previous sprinting eras in Australia....your thoughts?

Stop telling us this nonsense and start telling us WHY ? 

Oh and Djebel....its not nonsense...its fact. Or didn't you know?  Look at the winner lists in recent times.
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 2:49pm
THAT is not telling us WHY.

THAT is just shoving nonsense down our throats.

Let's get one thing straight, Zaaki, Hartnell, Cape Of Good Hope, Benbtl and Avilius were not B graders up North.

Tell us, Which fully established B and C graders have come down here and won group 1 races ? 




reductio ad absurdum



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 2:51pm
They head to Australia because they are not up to it in Europe at 1600m+. Its a cash grab here in Australia. Europe know this so they send them down here in droves.

Why??? Ill tell you why...because racing at 1600m+ in Australia is poor depthwise.....why.....cos Australian racing is obssessed with speed. Not stamina.
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 2:53pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

THAT is not telling us WHY.

THAT is just shoving nonsense down our throats.

Let's get one thing straight, Zaaki, Hartnell, Cape Of Good Hope, Benbtl and Avilius were not B graders up North.

Tell us, Which fully established B and C graders have come down here and won group 1 races ? 

This is for all distances. But to answer your question see list below. If I have missed any out then let me know. Cheers.



Internationally Trained Horses (except New Nealand) - Most Group 1s Won in Australia


Adeyybb (3):

2021 Queen Elizabeth Stakes (2000m WFA at Randwick)

2020 Queen Elizabeth Stakes (2000m WFA at Randwick)

2020 Ranvet Stakes (2000m WFA at Rosehill)


Dunaden (2):

2012 Caulfield Cup (2400m HCP at Caulfield)

2011 Melbourne Cup (3200m HCP at Flemington)


Vintage Crop (1):

1993 Melbourne Cup (3200m HCP at Flemington)


Taufan's Melody (1):

1998 Caulfield Cup (2400m HCP at Caulfield)


Media Puzzle (1):

2002 Melbourne Cup (3200m HCP at Flemington)


Cape Of Good Hope (1):

2004 Australia Stakes (1200m WFA at Moonee Valley)


Delta Blues (1):

2006 Melbourne Cup (3200m HCP at Flemington)


All The Good (1):

2008 Caulfield Cup (2400m HCP at Caulfield)


Americain (1):

2010 Melbourne Cup (3200m HCP at Flemington)


Side Glance (1):

2013 Mackinnon Stakes (2000m WFA at Flemington)


Gordon Lord Byron (1):

2014 George Ryder Stakes (1500m WFA at  Rosehill)


Polarisation (1):

2014 Sydney Cup (3200m HCP at Randwick


Admire Ratki (1):

2014 Caulfield Cup (2400m HCP at Caulfield)


Adelaide (1):

2014 Cox Plate (2040m WFA at Moonee Valley)


Protectionist (1):

2014 Melbourne Cup (3200m HCP at Flemington)


Hana's Goal (1):

2014 All Aged Stakes (1400m WFA at Randwick)


Real Impact (1):

2015 George Ryder Stakes (1500m WFA at Rosehill)


Side Glance (1):

2015 Mackinnon Stakes (2000m WFA at Flemington)


Rekindling (1):

2017 Melbourne Cup (3200m HCP at Flemington)


Benbatl (1):

2018 Caulfield Stakes (2000m WFA at Caulfield)


Best Solution (1):

2018 Caulfield Cup (2400m HCP at Caulfield)


Cross Counter (1):

2018 Melbourne Cup (3200m HCP at Flemington)


Jungle Cat (1):

2018 Sir Rupert Clarke Stakes (1400m HCP at Caulfield)


Mer De Glace (1):

2019 Caulfield Cup (2400m HCP at Caulfield)


Lys Gracieux (1):

2019 Cox Plate (2040m WFA at Moonee Valley)


Magic Wand (1):

2019 Mackinnon Stakes (2000m WFA at Flemington)


Twilight Payment (1):

2020 Melbourne Cup (3200m HCP at Flemington)


State Of Rest (1):

2021 Cox Plate


WFA = Weight For Age

HCP = Handicap


Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2022 at 4:00pm
What butcher job they have done on this superbly talented horse. 




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2022 at 5:10pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

What butcher job they have done on this superbly talented horse. 

Superbly talented? A horse that's won 7 races from 35 starts hahaha. Time you gave up on Dalasan/Dalafail and focused on another horse but I assume you back the horse all the time which means he isn't winning you much money. Plenty of other horses to keep an eye on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Foxseal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2022 at 6:41pm
He is a tremendously talented horse & his race record clearly shows that with close placings in major races like the Doncaster, Epsom & QE Stakes. Not to mention banking a whopping $3.47m in prizemoney.

But it is surprising that hes rarely been raced beyond 2000m.  His only 2 runs at a distance have been a great 2nd place in the SA Derby behind a star in Russian Camelot & a sound 11th in the Caulfield Cup only 5 lens off VE.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kiwi88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2022 at 7:17pm
In hindsight maybe they should have gelded him. Hard to see him winning a G1 and becoming a stallion prospect. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Smoke and Mirrors Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2022 at 8:10pm
Such a weird comment. Hardly a 'failure', I'd like one half as good.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Afros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2022 at 10:02pm
Just Jamal doing his usual trolling of djebel mate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote VOYAGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2022 at 10:29pm
I am sorry to say that after the drought there is a time when you have to face facts that the dust bowls Oklahoma just are not good to grow crops.

That was perfect placement today he loomed up to go straight past them and three horses passed him in the straight. He is the ultimate herd runner and while he has given his connections some excitement and plenty of financial recompense, he is from now on a non-winning option in any race.

The placement (distance and weight), the ride and the run he had he should have went straight past that group of horses but he just wanted to run with his friends.
Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pardon_My_Dust Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2022 at 2:11pm
Yep, I got sucked in too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smoke and Mirrors Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2022 at 2:18pm
Probably be retired now and whisked to stud in the back blocks of NZ 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote VOYAGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2022 at 4:51pm
I know a small boutique stud outside Yass that have good group of loyal breeders, who would love to stand him Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2022 at 5:27pm
Hope they get him Voyager.

Nothing wrong with his preparation and placement yesterday, however he's clearly no longer in for the tussle.  And given that, to race for yet another season as a 6yo would appear to serve no useful purpose whatsoever.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote speedingaway Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2022 at 10:33pm
DALASAN (J. Holder) – laid in, in the straight. Rider report that the horse travelled well; however,
was disappointing in its finishing effort. A post-race veterinary examination revealed that the
horse had been galloped on, on its off hind leg. First aid was administered.
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Group 1 performer Dalasan has narrowly escaped serious injury with his trainer admitting he was "very lucky" it wasn't life-threatening.

Back in class,  Dalasan failed to fire in the G3 R A Lee Stakes (1600m) at Morphettville last Saturday, but co-trainer Leon Macdonald says the five-year-old had excuses.

The son of Dalakhani finished sixth in a field of 13, 5.3 lengths behind winner Belle Plaisir.

"He got galloped on fairly badly," revealed Macdonald, who co-trains with son-in-law Andrew Gluyas.

"It's his offside hind tendon that's the issue, it's not life-threatening, but it wouldn't want to have been any closer or it would've been. (He's) very lucky.

"It would've been as they came down the side I think, but I don't really have the full idea.

"We haven't taken the bandage off since Saturday night, but when we do, we'll get more of an idea."

Despite the setback, Macdonald says the plan is for Dalasan to race on, with a spring program to be mapped out for the horse in time.

"It's too early to tell, but the idea is he'll go forward into the spring providing he's ok," Macdonald said.

Dalasan has built a reputation as a gallant competitor at the elite level, despite not yet winning one, having netted four placings from 19 attempts. 

Macdonald days he's at a loss to explain the poor showing from Manhatten Times in Adelaide's feature sprint, the G1 Goodwood (1200m).

The lightweight chance finished third-last, more than 11 lengths adrift of all-the-way winner Lombardo. 

"No idea," Macdonald said when asked for a reason behind the lacklustre showing.

"He didn't run well, and I can't see any reason why.

"His work leading up to it was excellent, it was a funny sort of race, a lot of horses ran badly. Those horses that got back didn't really perform."

Manhatten Times has been sent to the paddock ahead of a spring return, where the son of Manhattan Rain will likely step out in trip.

Another Award is also bound for the paddock after failing to win the final race of the carnival - the G3 Proud Miss (1200m) - despite starting a warm favourite ($3.30).

"I thought she was disappointing as well," Macdonald said candidly.

"She might've gone one too many, who knows, she's been really good leading into it.

"She ran ok, but I would've expected her to run what would've been a pass mark of running second."

Always was, always will be
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2022 at 11:58am
Tomorrow Murray Bridge =

Race 1
Party Princess
3f So You Think x Khandallah (Kitten's Joy)
T: L and A Macdonald and Gluyas J: Teagan Voorham
Sibling to Dalasan
MM Gold Coast $300,000 V: Mill Park Stud B: Macdonald Gluyas Racing




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sister Dot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2022 at 8:14am
She’s in a tri, in a maiden, wish me luck Djebel LOL
“Where in this wide world can man find nobility without pride, friendship without envy, or beauty without vanity? Here where grace is laced with muscle and strength by gentleness confined”
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