Dalasan/Merits Of Euros Jamal/djebel discussion

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djebel

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Topic: Dalasan/Merits Of Euros Jamal/djebel discussion
Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 4:55pm

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Edited by Gay3 - 10 Apr 2022 at 5:36pm

reductio ad absurdum

Jamal

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Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 4:57pm

Well I didnt. I had nothing to do with the closing of the previous thread.

Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers

djebel

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Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 5:02pm

None of these are B graders OR they have beaten the handicapper.

This is for all distances. But to answer your question see list below. If I have missed any out then let me know. Cheers.

Internationally Trained Horses (except New Nealand) - Most Group 1s Won in Australia

Adeyybb (3):

2021 Queen Elizabeth Stakes (2000m WFA at Randwick)

2020 Queen Elizabeth Stakes (2000m WFA at Randwick)

2020 Ranvet Stakes (2000m WFA at Rosehill)

Dunaden (2):

2012 Caulfield Cup (2400m HCP at Caulfield)

2011 Melbourne Cup (3200m HCP at Flemington)

Vintage Crop (1):

1993 Melbourne Cup (3200m HCP at Flemington)

Taufan's Melody (1):

1998 Caulfield Cup (2400m HCP at Caulfield)

Media Puzzle (1):

2002 Melbourne Cup (3200m HCP at Flemington)

Cape Of Good Hope (1):

2004 Australia Stakes (1200m WFA at Moonee Valley)

Delta Blues (1):

2006 Melbourne Cup (3200m HCP at Flemington)

All The Good (1):

2008 Caulfield Cup (2400m HCP at Caulfield)

Americain (1):

2010 Melbourne Cup (3200m HCP at Flemington)

Side Glance (1):

2013 Mackinnon Stakes (2000m WFA at Flemington)

Gordon Lord Byron (1):

2014 George Ryder Stakes (1500m WFA at Rosehill)

Polarisation (1):

2014 Sydney Cup (3200m HCP at Randwick

Admire Ratki (1):

2014 Caulfield Cup (2400m HCP at Caulfield)

Adelaide (1):

2014 Cox Plate (2040m WFA at Moonee Valley)

Protectionist (1):

2014 Melbourne Cup (3200m HCP at Flemington)

Hana's Goal (1):

2014 All Aged Stakes (1400m WFA at Randwick)

Real Impact (1):

2015 George Ryder Stakes (1500m WFA at Rosehill)

Side Glance (1):

2015 Mackinnon Stakes (2000m WFA at Flemington)

Rekindling (1):

2017 Melbourne Cup (3200m HCP at Flemington)

Benbatl (1):

2018 Caulfield Stakes (2000m WFA at Caulfield)

Best Solution (1):

2018 Caulfield Cup (2400m HCP at Caulfield)

Cross Counter (1):

2018 Melbourne Cup (3200m HCP at Flemington)

Jungle Cat (1):

2018 Sir Rupert Clarke Stakes (1400m HCP at Caulfield)

Mer De Glace (1):

2019 Caulfield Cup (2400m HCP at Caulfield)

Lys Gracieux (1):

2019 Cox Plate (2040m WFA at Moonee Valley)

Magic Wand (1):

2019 Mackinnon Stakes (2000m WFA at Flemington)

Twilight Payment (1):

2020 Melbourne Cup (3200m HCP at Flemington)

State Of Rest (1):

2021 Cox Plate

WFA = Weight For Age

HCP = Handicap

reductio ad absurdum

djebel

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Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 5:03pm

Name one of these "group 1" winners that is a b grader up north.

reductio ad absurdum

Jamal

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Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 5:11pm

djebel wrote:

Name one of these "group 1" winners that is a b grader up north.

What is your interpretation of a B/C Grader?

Also, I left them out because the list would be a hell of a lot but the imports too from Europe who have won G1s at 1600m+ in Australia. Some of them were not good in Europe and sent to Australia and had G1 success....or G2 G3 or Listed (Stakes) success.

Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers

djebel

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Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 5:13pm

You are the one telling us that B and C graders are coming down and winning group 1 races.

Name them.

reductio ad absurdum

Jamal

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Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 5:15pm

See list above as an example mate.

Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers

djebel

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Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 5:18pm

Are you saying they are all B and C graders ?

If not which one are the B and C graders ?

reductio ad absurdum

Shawy38

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Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 5:19pm

Why do we have 2 Dalasan threads full of your dribble?

Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing

Jamal

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Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 5:21pm

Horses from Europe who are sent to Australia for 1600m+ races aren't up to it at the elite level which is Europe. If they were they would be kept in Europe. Its seen as a cash grab here in Australia

Now as you know...there was a time in Australian racing that it was strong depthwise at 1600m+ will we ever see those rimes again Djebel? If so then the industry needs an all in effort. Change in mindset away from the obsession from speed if you know what I mean.

Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers

djebel

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Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 5:28pm

I am not sure you know what you mean.

You contradict yourself with cash grab comment.

Are you going to tell us Spanish Mission was a B grader being beaten a lip by Stradivarius ?

Why wouldn't owners take the cash of Aussie owners rather than racing for ribbons ?

reductio ad absurdum

Jamal

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Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 5:29pm

The best races at 1600m+ aren't in Australia. Did you not know that. Serious question?

Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers

djebel

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Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 5:30pm

What does that even mean ?

reductio ad absurdum

Jamal

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Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 5:56pm

Mate it means exactly what it means.

Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers

TJMitchell View Drop Down

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Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 5:59pm

This will be a good thread LOL

Time is a flat circle

djebel

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Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 6:14pm

Hopefully Jamal will tell us which B and C graders have come out here and beaten our horses in group 1 races.

Hopefully Jamal will tell us why our middle distance and staying types are not as good as those from Europe.

reductio ad absurdum

Jamal

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Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 6:30pm

Already have.

Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers

Second Chance View Drop Down

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Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 6:42pm

Two boys throwing mud and fighting in a mud fight in the country Stock Photo - Alamy

djebel

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Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 6:59pm

THUNDER SNOW (IRE)

Bay colt 2014

Helmet Chestnut 2008	Exceed and Excel Bay 2000	Danehill Bay 1986	Danzig Bay 1977	Northern Dancer Pas de Nom	1961 1968	2-d 7-a
		Danehill Bay 1986	Razyana Bay 1981	His Majesty Spring Adieu	1968 1974	4-d 2-d
		Patrona Chestnut 1994	Lomond Bay 1980	Northern Dancer My Charmer	1961 1969	2-d 13-c
		Patrona Chestnut 1994	Gladiolus Chestnut 1974	Watch Your Step Back Britches	1956 1964	6-a 23-b
	Accessories Brown 2003	Singspiel Bay 1992	In the Wings Bay 1986	Sadler's Wells High Hawk	1981 1980	5-h 9-e
		Singspiel Bay 1992	Glorious Song Bay 1976	Halo Ballade	1969 1972	2-d 12-c
		Anna Matrushka Chestnut 1984	Mill Reef Bay 1968	Never Bend Milan Mill	1960 1962	19-b 22-d
		Anna Matrushka Chestnut 1984	Anna Paola Chestnut 1978	Prince Ippi Antwerpen	1969 1972	1-s 7-f
Eastern Joy Bay 2006	Dubai Destination Bay 1999	Kingmambo Bay 1990	Mr Prospector Bay 1970	Raise a Native Gold Digger	1961 1962	8-f 13-c
		Kingmambo Bay 1990	Miesque Bay 1984	Nureyev Pasadoble	1977 1979	5-h 20>
		Mysterial Bay or brown 1994	Alleged Bay 1974	Hoist the Flag Princess Pout	1968 1966	5-i 2-s
		Mysterial Bay or brown 1994	Mysteries Chestnut 1986	Seattle Slew Phydilla	1974 1978	13-c 6-b
	Red Slippers Chestnut 1989	Nureyev Bay 1977	Northern Dancer Bay 1961	Nearctic Natalma	1954 1957	14-c 2-d
		Nureyev Bay 1977	Special Bay 1969	Forli Thong	1963 1964	3-b 5-h
		Morning Devotion Chestnut 1982	Affirmed Chestnut 1975	Exclusive Native Won't Tell You	1965 1962	10-a 23-b
		Morning Devotion Chestnut 1982	Morning Has Broken Chestnut 1974	Prince John A Wind Is Rising	1953 1969	14-f 4-k

Ancestor duplications:

Northern Dancer

5m,5m x 4m

Nureyev

x 5f,3f

reductio ad absurdum

djebel

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Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 6:59pm

MONTEROSSO (GB)

Bay colt 2007

Dubawi Bay 2002	Dubai Millennium Bay 1996	Seeking the Gold Bay 1985	Mr Prospector Bay 1970	Raise a Native Gold Digger	1961 1962	8-f 13-c
		Seeking the Gold Bay 1985	Con Game Bay or brown 1974	Buckpasser Broadway	1963 1959	1-s 5-c
		Colorado Dancer Bay or brown 1986	Shareef Dancer Bay 1980	Northern Dancer Sweet Alliance	1961 1974	2-d 4-r
		Colorado Dancer Bay or brown 1986	Fall Aspen Chestnut 1976	Pretense Change Water	1963 1969	3-i 4-m
	Zomaradah Bay 1995	Deploy Bay 1987	Shirley Heights Bay 1975	Mill Reef Hardiemma	1968 1969	22-d 1-l
		Deploy Bay 1987	Slightly Dangerous Bay 1979	Roberto Where You Lead	1969 1970	12-c 14-f
		Jawaher Bay 1989	Dancing Brave Bay 1983	Lyphard Navajo Princess	1969 1974	17-b 3-d
		Jawaher Bay 1989	High Tern Grey 1982	High Line Sunbittern	1966 1970	5-e 9-e
Porto Roca Bay 1996	Barathea Bay 1990	Sadler's Wells Bay 1981	Northern Dancer Bay 1961	Nearctic Natalma	1954 1957	14-c 2-d
		Sadler's Wells Bay 1981	Fairy Bridge Bay 1975	Bold Reason Special	1968 1969	19-b 5-h
		Brocade Bay 1981	Habitat Bay 1966	Sir Gaylord Little Hut	1959 1952	2-s 4-r
		Brocade Bay 1981	Canton Silk Grey 1970	Runnymede Clouded Lamp	1961 1961	16-f 14-a
	Antelliere Bay 1986	Salieri Chestnut 1980	Accipiter Bay 1971	Damascus Kingsland	1964 1965	8-h 9-e
		Salieri Chestnut 1980	Hogan's Sister Bay 1977	Speak John Liz Piet	1958 1960	1-l 2-n
		Anntelle Brown 1979	Loosen Up Brown 1973	Never Bend Dancing Hostess	1960 1964	19-b 4-d
		Anntelle Brown 1979	Soft Quest Bay 1969	Robber Prince Dual Vista	1956 1953	14-b 28>

Ancestor duplications:

Northern Dancer

5m x 4m

reductio ad absurdum

djebel

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Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 7:00pm

HIGHLAND REEL (IRE)

Bay colt 2012

Galileo Bay 1998	Sadler's Wells Bay 1981	Northern Dancer Bay 1961	Nearctic Brown 1954	Nearco Lady Angela	1935 1944	4-r 14-c
		Northern Dancer Bay 1961	Natalma Bay 1957	Native Dancer Almahmoud	1950 1947	5-f 2-d
		Fairy Bridge Bay 1975	Bold Reason Bay 1968	Hail to Reason Lalun	1958 1952	4-n 19-b
		Fairy Bridge Bay 1975	Special Bay 1969	Forli Thong	1963 1964	3-b 5-h
	Urban Sea Chestnut 1989	Miswaki Chestnut 1978	Mr Prospector Bay 1970	Raise a Native Gold Digger	1961 1962	8-f 13-c
		Miswaki Chestnut 1978	Hopespringseternal Chestnut 1971	Buckpasser Rose Bower	1963 1958	1-s 16-g
		Allegretta Chestnut 1978	Lombard Chestnut 1967	Agio Promised Lady	1955 1961	9-h 1-d
		Allegretta Chestnut 1978	Anatevka Chestnut 1969	Espresso Almyra	1958 1962	7-a 9-h
Hveger Bay 2001	Danehill Bay 1986	Danzig Bay 1977	Northern Dancer Bay 1961	Nearctic Natalma	1954 1957	14-c 2-d
		Danzig Bay 1977	Pas de Nom Bay or brown 1968	Admiral's Voyage Petitioner	1959 1952	4-n 7-a
		Razyana Bay 1981	His Majesty Bay 1968	Ribot Flower Bowl	1952 1952	4-l 4-d
		Razyana Bay 1981	Spring Adieu Bay 1974	Buckpasser Natalma	1963 1957	1-s 2-d
	Circles of Gold Chestnut 1991	Marscay Chestnut 1979	Biscay Chestnut 1965	Star Kingdom Magic Symbol	1946 1956	1-g 2-o
		Marscay Chestnut 1979	Heart of Market Bay 1967	To Market Accroche Coeur	1948 1959	10-a 4-m
		Olympic Aim Chestnut 1983	Zamazaan Chestnut 1965	Exbury Toyama	1959 1955	2-f 7>
		Olympic Aim Chestnut 1983	Gold Vink Chestnut 1966	Gold Sovereign Goudvink	1957 1954	14-b 22-b

Ancestor duplications:

Northern Dancer

3m x 4m

Natalma

4m x 5m,5f

Buckpasser

5f x 5f

reductio ad absurdum

djebel

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Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 7:02pm

ANTHONY VAN DYCK (IRE)

Bay colt 2016

Galileo Bay 1998	Sadler's Wells Bay 1981	Northern Dancer Bay 1961	Nearctic Brown 1954	Nearco Lady Angela	1935 1944	4-r 14-c
		Northern Dancer Bay 1961	Natalma Bay 1957	Native Dancer Almahmoud	1950 1947	5-f 2-d
		Fairy Bridge Bay 1975	Bold Reason Bay 1968	Hail to Reason Lalun	1958 1952	4-n 19-b
		Fairy Bridge Bay 1975	Special Bay 1969	Forli Thong	1963 1964	3-b 5-h
	Urban Sea Chestnut 1989	Miswaki Chestnut 1978	Mr Prospector Bay 1970	Raise a Native Gold Digger	1961 1962	8-f 13-c
		Miswaki Chestnut 1978	Hopespringseternal Chestnut 1971	Buckpasser Rose Bower	1963 1958	1-s 16-g
		Allegretta Chestnut 1978	Lombard Chestnut 1967	Agio Promised Lady	1955 1961	9-h 1-d
		Allegretta Chestnut 1978	Anatevka Chestnut 1969	Espresso Almyra	1958 1962	7-a 9-h
Believe'n'Succeed Bay 2005	Exceed and Excel Bay 2000	Danehill Bay 1986	Danzig Bay 1977	Northern Dancer Pas de Nom	1961 1968	2-d 7-a
		Danehill Bay 1986	Razyana Bay 1981	His Majesty Spring Adieu	1968 1974	4-d 2-d
		Patrona Chestnut 1994	Lomond Bay 1980	Northern Dancer My Charmer	1961 1969	2-d 13-c
		Patrona Chestnut 1994	Gladiolus Chestnut 1974	Watch Your Step Back Britches	1956 1964	6-a 23-b
	Arctic Drift Bay or brown 2000	Gone West Bay 1984	Mr Prospector Bay 1970	Raise a Native Gold Digger	1961 1962	8-f 13-c
		Gone West Bay 1984	Secrettame Chestnut 1978	Secretariat Tamerett	1970 1962	2-s 2-f
		November Snow Bay 1989	Storm Cat Bay or brown 1983	Storm Bird Terlingua	1978 1976	4-j 8-c
		November Snow Bay 1989	Princess Alydar Bay 1981	Alydar Sunny Morning	1975 1965	9-c 16-c

Ancestor duplications:

Northern Dancer

3m x 5m,5m

Mr Prospector

4m x 4m

reductio ad absurdum

djebel

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Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 7:05pm

QUALIFY (IRE)

Bay filly 2012

Fastnet Rock Bay 2001	Danehill Bay 1986	Danzig Bay 1977	Northern Dancer Bay 1961	Nearctic Natalma	1954 1957	14-c 2-d
		Danzig Bay 1977	Pas de Nom Bay or brown 1968	Admiral's Voyage Petitioner	1959 1952	4-n 7-a
		Razyana Bay 1981	His Majesty Bay 1968	Ribot Flower Bowl	1952 1952	4-l 4-d
		Razyana Bay 1981	Spring Adieu Bay 1974	Buckpasser Natalma	1963 1957	1-s 2-d
	Piccadilly Circus Bay 1995	Royal Academy Bay 1987	Nijinsky Bay 1967	Northern Dancer Flaming Page	1961 1959	2-d 8-f
		Royal Academy Bay 1987	Crimson Saint Chestnut 1969	Crimson Satan Bolero Rose	1959 1958	26> 8-c
		Gatana Bay 1989	Marauding Bay 1984	Sir Tristram Biscalowe	1971 1979	6-e 4-i
		Gatana Bay 1989	Twigalae Bay 1979	Twig Moss Hondalae	1973 1968	1-k 2-f
Perihelion Chestnut 2005	Galileo Bay 1998	Sadler's Wells Bay 1981	Northern Dancer Bay 1961	Nearctic Natalma	1954 1957	14-c 2-d
		Sadler's Wells Bay 1981	Fairy Bridge Bay 1975	Bold Reason Special	1968 1969	19-b 5-h
		Urban Sea Chestnut 1989	Miswaki Chestnut 1978	Mr Prospector Hopespringseternal	1970 1971	13-c 16-g
		Urban Sea Chestnut 1989	Allegretta Chestnut 1978	Lombard Anatevka	1967 1969	1-d 9-h
	Medicosma Chestnut 1986	The Minstrel Chestnut 1974	Northern Dancer Bay 1961	Nearctic Natalma	1954 1957	14-c 2-d
		The Minstrel Chestnut 1974	Fleur Bay 1964	Victoria Park Flaming Page	1957 1959	10-c 8-f
		Media Luna Bay 1981	Star Appeal Bay 1970	Appiani Sterna	1963 1960	4-f 5-d
		Media Luna Bay 1981	Sounion Bay 1961	Vimy Esquire Girl	1952 1952	1-u 14-c