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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Afros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2020 at 1:36pm
Originally posted by Shrunk in the Wash Shrunk in the Wash wrote:

Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

Originally posted by Shrunk in the Wash Shrunk in the Wash wrote:

Fully aware but a lack of initiative and forethought was displayed in the face of this massive global disaster.
You were too busy with your TDS to even critique the major European dramasWink

If you had read my post you might have understood that I was pointing out the Australian response to show the difference and how you get around state sovereignty 

And if you read anything with an open mind and eye you would know that the Governor's in the USA stuffed up badly. In particular NY But that doesn’t suit your agendaWink

Well the idiot up top was running about telling everyone it would just go away but that if they got it they could inject themselves with bleach, or use lights and that social distancing and masks were not necessary, but of course that was the all the governor's faults, because that suits your orange man good agenda.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2020 at 1:50pm
Originally posted by Shrunk in the Wash Shrunk in the Wash wrote:

Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

Originally posted by Shrunk in the Wash Shrunk in the Wash wrote:

Fully aware but a lack of initiative and forethought was displayed in the face of this massive global disaster.
You were too busy with your TDS to even critique the major European dramasWink

If you had read my post you might have understood that I was pointing out the Australian response to show the difference and how you get around state sovereignty 

And if you read anything with an open mind and eye you would know that the Governor's in the USA stuffed up badly. In particular NY But that doesn’t suit your agendaWink

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shrunk in the Wash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2020 at 3:27pm
Originally posted by Afros Afros wrote:

Originally posted by Shrunk in the Wash Shrunk in the Wash wrote:

Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

Originally posted by Shrunk in the Wash Shrunk in the Wash wrote:

Fully aware but a lack of initiative and forethought was displayed in the face of this massive global disaster.
You were too busy with your TDS to even critique the major European dramasWink

If you had read my post you might have understood that I was pointing out the Australian response to show the difference and how you get around state sovereignty 

And if you read anything with an open mind and eye you would know that the Governor's in the USA stuffed up badly. In particular NY But that doesn’t suit your agendaWink

Well the idiot up top was running about telling everyone it would just go away but that if they got it they could inject themselves with bleach, or use lights and that social distancing and masks were not necessary, but of course that was the all the governor's faults, because that suits your orange man good agenda.

Of course it’s the governor’s fault.
They had the power to do what they wanted but were too slow and politically driven to do the right thing.
Regardless of wha5 a Trump said, they were in a position to act and failed

Oh, except  Cuomo who took action. He sent Covid patients into nursing homes to spread the disease. Killing thousands but hey, that don’t matter, he ain’t orange ?? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2020 at 5:35pm

For the Next Pandemic, Run the Trump Playbook in Reverse

The U.S. government has significant experience in mobilizing for crises. What went wrong this time?


https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-04-10/the-coronavirus-mistakes-trump-made-that-we-can-never-make-again


“Allow me to say as I told her personally today, the governor of Oregon, Governor Kate Brown — her unilateral decision to send 140 ventilators … to New York, to me was in the very highest American tradition of loving your neighbor. And when I talked to Governor Cuomo, Mr. President, he said they never asked Oregon for the ventilators and Governor Brown hadn’t even called him to tell him that she was doing that. It really is remarkable.”

So spoke Vice President Mike Pence during Saturday’s coronavirus briefing, and on one level, he’s right. With ventilators arguably the nation’s most precious piece of equipment, it was remarkable that a governor on the West Coast sent 140 of them to a state in dire need on the other side of the country. The next day, Washington Governor Jay Inslee returned more than 400 ventilators to the federal government so that they could be used in harder-hit states.

“I’ve said many times: We are all in this together,” Inslee said.

On another level, however, the fact that Brown and Inslee had to take it upon themselves to ship unused ventilators suggests something appalling: The federal government, which is the only entity with the resources and capacity to truly manage this crisis, is missing in action.

Yes, there are daily press briefings, in which some facts are conveyed and warnings issued (along with occasional misinformation from President Donald Trump), and they have some limited utility. But if this crisis were being managed properly, the federal government would know where every ventilator in the country was, and it would be able to quickly deploy them to the states where they were most needed.

To put it another way, what the Trump administration should’ve done in late January was to mobilize the entire federal government. That it still hasn’t done so is both inexplicable and shocking.

Federal mobilization is common when disaster hits. Protocols have been in place for decades. After Hurricane Sandy, a half-dozen agencies, led by the Federal Emergency Management Agency, worked together to help the hardest-hit areas recover. A similarly coordinated effort followed the outbreak of the H1N1 virus in 2009. What’s unusual about the current crisis is that it’s affecting all 50 states at once, rather than a single region ravaged by, say, a hurricane. But that’s all the more reason for the federal government to be running the show.

In fact, the government already has a plan in place for dealing with what we’re now facing. In 2005, according to ABC News, President George W. Bush read an advance copy of John M. Barry’s book about the 1918 flu pandemic, “The Great Influenza.” “This happens every hundred years,” he told other officials. “We need a national strategy.”

Over the next three years, prodded by the president, administration officials created a detailed pandemic-response strategy. According to Fran Townsend, Bush’s homeland-security adviser, it included an outline for a global early-warning system, money for vaccine technology and the now-infamous national stockpile for protective equipment, ventilators and so on.

President Barack Obama’s administration confronted outbreaks of the Ebola, Zika and H1N1 viruses. Although these had limited effect in the U.S., they highlighted the very real possibility of a pandemic wreaking havoc here. By the end of Obama’s second term, his National Security Council had developed a 69-page playbook for responding to such threats.

As Obama was leaving office, members of his national-security team conducted a so-called table-top exercise on pandemics for the incoming Trump officials. The reception their presentation received, according to Politico, was “chilly.”

So what should’ve happened once it was clear the pandemic would threaten the U.S.? I spoke to half a dozen officials who have been involved in preparing for and dealing with disasters, including Ashton Carter, the former defense secretary; Juliette Kayyem, the former assistant secretary for intergovernmental affairs at the Department of Homeland Security; and Michèle Flournoy, the former undersecretary of defense for policy. Here are some of the messages I took away from those conversations.

Invoking the Defense Production Act should be a priority, not a last resort. Just about everybody I spoke with was mystified that Trump has been so reluctant to use the DPA, which gives the president expansive authority to “instruct everybody to do anything that is in service of our national security,” as Carter put it.

What’s more, it is used routinely, mainly when the government wants to prioritize its own production needs over a company’s commercial needs. Companies are used to it, and know how to deal with it. And it’s not just about manufacturing. A government mobilization might include using the DPA to require FedEx Corp. or United Parcel Service Inc. to ferry emergency equipment. It might require having Amazon.com Inc. use its cloud services as a repository for critical data. It might mean that private hospitals have to act as public ones during emergencies. And so on.

What makes no sense is using the DPA the way Trump has — as a means of embarrassing and punishing companies he’s annoyed with.


Read the article if you want more.

"Two hundred years ago, 99.999 percent of human idiocy went unrecorded. Now we have the Internet."

Errol Morris
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Afros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2020 at 5:54pm
Originally posted by Shrunk in the Wash Shrunk in the Wash wrote:

Originally posted by Afros Afros wrote:

Originally posted by Shrunk in the Wash Shrunk in the Wash wrote:

Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

Originally posted by Shrunk in the Wash Shrunk in the Wash wrote:

Fully aware but a lack of initiative and forethought was displayed in the face of this massive global disaster.
You were too busy with your TDS to even critique the major European dramasWink

If you had read my post you might have understood that I was pointing out the Australian response to show the difference and how you get around state sovereignty 

And if you read anything with an open mind and eye you would know that the Governor's in the USA stuffed up badly. In particular NY But that doesn’t suit your agendaWink

Well the idiot up top was running about telling everyone it would just go away but that if they got it they could inject themselves with bleach, or use lights and that social distancing and masks were not necessary, but of course that was the all the governor's faults, because that suits your orange man good agenda.

Of course it’s the governor’s fault.
They had the power to do what they wanted but were too slow and politically driven to do the right thing.
Regardless of wha5 a Trump said, they were in a position to act and failed

Oh, except  Cuomo who took action. He sent Covid patients into nursing homes to spread the disease. Killing thousands but hey, that don’t matter, he ain’t orange ?? 

Because of course, the orange idiot going about telling everyone that they didn't need to wear masks or social distance didn't affect things at all hey? LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2020 at 6:40pm
Shrunk's possible epitaph: "Loved and in our hearts forever, even if there are none so blind that will not see".

Not that anyone would for a moment wish him an early departure from his mortal fold.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shrunk in the Wash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2020 at 8:24am
Originally posted by Afros Afros wrote:

Originally posted by Shrunk in the Wash Shrunk in the Wash wrote:

Originally posted by Afros Afros wrote:

Originally posted by Shrunk in the Wash Shrunk in the Wash wrote:

Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

Originally posted by Shrunk in the Wash Shrunk in the Wash wrote:

Fully aware but a lack of initiative and forethought was displayed in the face of this massive global disaster.
You were too busy with your TDS to even critique the major European dramasWink

If you had read my post you might have understood that I was pointing out the Australian response to show the difference and how you get around state sovereignty 

And if you read anything with an open mind and eye you would know that the Governor's in the USA stuffed up badly. In particular NY But that doesn’t suit your agendaWink

Well the idiot up top was running about telling everyone it would just go away but that if they got it they could inject themselves with bleach, or use lights and that social distancing and masks were not necessary, but of course that was the all the governor's faults, because that suits your orange man good agenda.

Of course it’s the governor’s fault.
They had the power to do what they wanted but were too slow and politically driven to do the right thing.
Regardless of wha5 a Trump said, they were in a position to act and failed

Oh, except  Cuomo who took action. He sent Covid patients into nursing homes to spread the disease. Killing thousands but hey, that don’t matter, he ain’t orange ?? 

Because of course, the orange idiot going about telling everyone that they didn't need to wear masks or social distance didn't affect things at all hey? LOL


I guess CNN, the trump haters, were lying Confused

CNN)President Donald Trump signaled Monday he is aware things may get worse before they get better as the country battles the coronavirus pandemic

Certainly, this is going to be bad," Trump said.

As the country entered another week of virtual shutdown, tough questions have been raised on how long the coronavirus mitigation measures he recommended will last and whether they are worth the economic pain.

During his daily coronavirus briefing, Trump signaled he hopes America can resume business sooner rather than later.
"We will be using data to recommend new protocols to allow local economies to cautiously resume their activity at the appropriate time," Trump said.

Trump was initially resistant to Fauci's recommendations that he take steps to encourage social distancing during the first go-around, people familiar with the deliberations said. After coming under intense criticism for not acting more decisively, Trump went ahead with the recommendations -- but remains unconvinced it was the right decision. 
Trump has been irked by the images of spring breakers in Florida ignoring the self-isolating guidance, a source close to the White House who is involved in the coronavirus response said. 
"What's the point of social distancing if 20% ignore the order?" Trump has said to aides, according to the source.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2020 at 8:32am
If you can't see the con, you are the mark.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shrunk in the Wash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2020 at 8:35am
Of course PT.
You know it allWink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2020 at 9:14am

Coronavirus and the rise of a right-wing media star

Dr. Li-Meng Yan, a researcher in Hong Kong, became a right-wing media sensation after appearing in the U.S. on Fox News to make the unsubstantiated claim that the coronavirus was a bioweapon manufactured by China.
How it happened: Two increasingly allied groups that peddle misinformation collaborated on Dr. Yan’s rise. One is a small but active corner of the Chinese diaspora, the other the highly influential far right in the U.S.
The players: Guo Wengui, a fugitive Chinese billionaire, and Stephen Bannon, a former adviser to Mr. Trump, have been on a mission for years to, as they put it, bring down the Chinese Communist Party. They put Dr. Yan on a plane to the U.S., gave her a place to stay, coached her on media appearances and helped her secure interviews with popular conservative television hosts.
"Two hundred years ago, 99.999 percent of human idiocy went unrecorded. Now we have the Internet."

Errol Morris
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2020 at 9:50am
Hope you are sitting down Shrunk.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2020 at 8:11am
Astrazeneca vaccine, 90% effective, can be stored in a refrigerator and is cheaper

So many vaccines appearing, take your choice.

The scientist are amazing , deserve to be lauded and rewarded Clap

And here I was thinking there were no vaccines for anything cos a world renowned immunologist told me so Confused
It is not about Biden winning or me winning, it is about the integrity of the voting system
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2020 at 8:16am
This one is a game changer. Talking of hundreds of millions of doses by first quarter 2021 and it isn't American so broader distribution. 

With this virus they had a big head start with a virus for SARS 1 almost ready for market when it died by itself. They have therefore got several years head start with this one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2020 at 8:26am
Didn't it occur to the Pfizzer geeks that making it necessary to store it at -70C was not ideal?LOL
"Two hundred years ago, 99.999 percent of human idiocy went unrecorded. Now we have the Internet."

Errol Morris
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2020 at 8:33am
Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

Didn't it occur to the Pfizzer geeks that making it necessary to store it at -70C was not ideal?LOL

As you put it their vaccine is a fizzer Smile

May still be used if there are not enough doses of others to go around and also a giant pharma like them may be able to exert pressure on governments 
It is not about Biden winning or me winning, it is about the integrity of the voting system
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2020 at 8:39am
The Oxford/Astrazeneca one will require more doses though and 2 jabs apparently. They were ready to go a while ago but only had around 60% efficacy. Further testing showed that a half dose followed by a full dose later gave 90%.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExceedAndExcel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2020 at 8:40am
Originally posted by fee fee wrote:

Astrazeneca vaccine, 90% effective, can be stored in a refrigerator and is cheaper

So many vaccines appearing, take your choice.

The scientist are amazing , deserve to be lauded and rewarded Clap

And here I was thinking there were no vaccines for anything cos a world renowned immunologist told me so Confused



We are so lucky to have a leading expert on all fields of medicine on TBV. At least we were. LOLLOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2020 at 8:51am
I am more sensitive to the problems very low temperature requirements creates than your average Joe because of something that happened to me last summer. I ordered in a shingles vaccine to my pharmacist - Zostavax. They keep all vaccines in a carefully calibrated and monitored fridge at fridge temperature, as do all GPs.

It's been in their fridge for 3 days because of public holidays when I decide to check out the instructions for the vaccine at the US manufacturer's site. The people who invented it. Panic! My $185 vaccine needs to be stored in a freezer and is ruined. I ring the pharmacist so he can join in my panic and he rings the Australian manufacturer. They tell him the Aussie version doesn't need to be kept in a freezer. Why the US inventor of the stuff would have a much more impractical version is beyond me.

So I get the shingles vaccination. Whether I have any shingles antibodies I do not know.
"Two hundred years ago, 99.999 percent of human idiocy went unrecorded. Now we have the Internet."

Errol Morris
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2020 at 9:20am
Stamp duty reduction of 50 % for new homes, 25% for exiting homes . The Victorian residential market will boom, up by 10% in 12 months IMO
It is not about Biden winning or me winning, it is about the integrity of the voting system
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2020 at 9:44am
When i first read that post above i thought Rusty was making one of his Stamp Collector jibes again LOL
There's got to be a morning after !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TJMitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2020 at 10:34am
Like I've been saying. 2021. Year of Australia.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2020 at 10:32am
When I first looked at the official world site for numbers ect the world was sitting at 3,726,704 cases of coronavirus with 258,295 deaths.  We were in shut down and the Ruby Princess had alot to answer for!

Months later we are relatively opening up with no cases known in the community for quite a while.  Finally state borders are tentively opening.  Families are reuniting.  Our world seems to be returning.  The vaccine is on the horizon.

Yet when I visit the official world site a different story is told.  For the last three days (and this day's full report isn't in yet) there are 1,697,296 new cases and 34,525 deaths.  All in three days!  The world isn't experiencing what we have here in Australia. 

The numbers now stand at 61,277,504 cases and 1,436,796 deaths.  The world as we know it is still very much in trouble.  At least the death rate seems to be down as doctors world wide find better ways of helping their patients through this.


So like TJ Mitchell above says.  Congratulations to the politicians who took a hard stand to save Christmas or anything else for that matter.  Yes our death rate suffered when it got into the nursing homes in Victoria but compared to the vast majority of nations ie
USA 812 per million
Brazil 805 per million
France 780 per million
Spain 949 per million
UK 838 per million
Italy 875 per million
Mexico 800 per million
Peru 1,079 per million (I think perhaps their hospitals failed to cope with demand)
Belgium 1385 per million (as above)
Sweden 654 per million
Switzerland 519 per million

Our figure is 35 per million

Well below China (3), Singapore (5) and South Korea (10) so high populations and density didn't always mean higher tolls.

Even Japan beats us with 16 deaths per million and with almost 2000 new cases and over 2000 dead she is not out of the woods yet.

And neither are we!  So while we glory in each new freedom we must remember the vaccine isn't here yet and it doesn't take much to reintroduce a new strain.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2020 at 10:39am
Might I also praise the Australian people who on the whole have helped to shut this thing down every time it has reared it's ugly head.  We might have a world wide reputation for being drunk and disorderly but hey we can follow orders when it matters.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TJMitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2020 at 11:00am
The Australian people have done an amazing job furious. Even though we'd had 0 new cases here the 3 weeks prior we still had almost 80,000 tests this week in Vic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2020 at 11:19am
I think Australia, her leaders, and 90% of her people have just done a wonderful job .  They all deserve high praise.
When I hear from friends in UK and USA it really makes me think how very lucky we have been. 
animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max manewer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2020 at 12:46pm
People have been compliant with govt directives, to a degree I would not have expected, but after they played the third SOO game to a packed house, I can't see why any restrictions on assembly are still in existence.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2020 at 12:51pm
There wont be shortly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr Prospector Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2020 at 3:46pm
Originally posted by furious furious wrote:

Might I also praise the Australian people who on the whole have helped to shut this thing down every time it has reared it's ugly head.  We might have a world wide reputation for being drunk and disorderly but hey we can follow orders when it matters.

I also think Millennials should take a bow especially . We've seen what happens in other countries when young people ignore social rules and spread the virus extensively .
Youngsters were the least affected by the virus , with the most to lose in terms of job losses and income and career and education path disruption . 

For us oldies it was a no brainer to do the right thing but for the Aussie younger generation it was selfless . 


There are three types of lies - Lies ,Damn Lies and Statistics
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rhino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2020 at 3:51pm
Well said Mr P. Fully agree. 
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Joined: 19 Feb 2007
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2020 at 8:00pm
Smile Fully agree.
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