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Brisbane carnival changes

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Afros View Drop Down
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    Posted: 28 Mar 2021 at 8:24am
It seems that this isn't widely known despite the changes actually have been announced prior to the aborted 2020 carnival, so I thought I'd make a topic on the complete dates for the stakes races across the carnival and for discussion.

April 17, Eagle Farm
Listed Daybreak Lover Plate 1400m $125k 3yo
Listed Ascot Handicap 1000m $125k Open

April 24, Doomben
Listed Tails Stakes 1600m $125k open
Listed Princess Stakes, 1600m 125k 3yo fillies
Listed Mick Dittman Plate 1110m 125k 3yo

May 1, Eagle Farm
Group 2 Queensland Guineas 1600m $350k 3yo
Group 2 Victory Stakes 1200m $250k Open WFA
Listed Dalrello Stakes 1000m $140k 2yo

May 8, Gold Coast
Group 2 Hollindale Stakes 1800m $500k Open WFA
Group 3 Gold Coast Guineas 1200m $150k 3yo
Group 3 Ken Russell Classic 1200m $150k 2yo
Listed Gold Coast Bracelet 1800m $150k 3yo fillies
Listed Silk Stocking 1400m $150k F&M
Listed Goldmarket 1200m $125k Open
Gold Coast Cup 2400m $125k Open
Bat Out Of Hell 900m $105k Open

May 15, Doomben
Group 1 Doomben 10,000 1200m $1 million Open WFA
Group 2 Champagne Classic 1200m $250k 2yo
Group 3 Rough Habit Plate  2000m $250k 3yo
Group 3 Chairmans Trophy 2000m $250k Open
Listed Bright Shadow 1200m $150k F&M
Listed Members Handicap 1600m $125k Open

May 22, Doomben
Group 1 Doomben Cup 2000m $700k Open WFA
Group 2 The Roses 2000m $250k 3yo fillies
Group 3 BRC Sprint 1350m $175k Open
Group 3 Pam O'Niell Stakes 1600m $150k F&M
Listed Carter Stakes 1200m $150k 2yo fillies
Listed Chief De Beers 1110m $125k Open

May 29, Eagle Farm
Group 1 Kingsford Smith Cup 1300m $700k Open WFA
Group 1 Queensland Derby 2400m $600k 3yo
Group 2 Sires Produce Stakes 1400m $1 million 2yo
Group 3 Fred Best Classic 1400m $250k 3yo
Group 3 Premiers Cup 2400m $200k Open
Group 3 Lord Mayors Cup 1800m $150k Open
Listed Hellen Coughlan Stakes 1200m $150k F&M

June 5, Eagle Farm
Group 1 Queensland Oaks 2200m $600k 3yo fillies
Group 2 Moreton Cup 1200m $200k Open
Listed Queensland Day Stakes 1200m $200k 3yo
Listed Spear Chief Handicap 1500m $125k Open
Listed The Phoenix 1500m $125k 2yo
Listed Lightning Handicap 1000m $125k Open
Queensland Sapphire Stakes 1600m $500k F&M WFA
QYIS Gold Jewel 1300m $200k Open

June 12, Eagle Farm
Group 1 Stradbroke Handicap 1400m $1.5 mil Open
Group 1 JJ Atkins 1600m $1 million 2yo
Group 2 The Q22 2200m $1.2 mil Open WFA
Group 2 Brisbane Cup 3200m $400k Open
Group 2 Dane Ripper Stakes 1300m $200k F&M
Group 3 Gunsynd Classic 1600m $200k 3yo
Listed The Wayne Wilson 1600m $200k Open WFA
Listed Hinkler Handicap 1200m $150k Open
Listed Oxlade Stakes 1200m $150k 2yo

June 19, Ipswich
Listed Ipswich Cup 2150m $175k Open
Listed Eyeliner Stakes 1350m $175k Open
Listed Gai Waterhouse Classic 1350m $150k Open

June 26, Eagle Farm
Group 1 Tattersalls Tiara 1400m $600k F&M WFA
Group 3 Tattersalls Cup 2400m $200k Open
Group 3 WJ Healy Stakes 1200m $175k Open
Listed Tattersalls Gold Crown 2100m $200k F&M
Listed Tattersalls Stakes 1200m $125k 2yo

July 3, Sunshine Coast
Group 3 Winx Guineas 1600m $175k 3yo
Listed Caloundra Cup 2400m $175k Open
Listed Glasshouse Handicap 1400m $175k Open
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Afros View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Afros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2021 at 8:34am
I like most of the changes, the Q22 has potential to become a good race.

A few things I'd change, Doomben 10,000 should be the middle leg of the sprint treble and stay at the traditional 1350m, this would of course require some changes to the above, but it would also allow some natural progression from the Victory Stakes to the Stradbroke, 1200m-1300m-1350m-1400m.  I think the Sunshine Coast meeting would also be better placed prior to the Eagle Farm carnival to allow the 3 stakes races there to become lead ins to the big races.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2021 at 12:26pm
Doomben 10K 1200 ? WFA ?? G.1 , BRC sprint G.3, open 1350. 
   Good luck to the club anyway , hope the weathers fine to compensate past losses .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Afros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2021 at 12:45pm
It's been raced over 1200m since 2017 Carioca, Redzel winning his first Group 1 over the new distance.  It's unfortunate as it took away the races unique place as the only 1350m group 1 and made it just another 1200m WFA group 1.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Afros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2021 at 12:47pm
Essentially what happened is the old Doomben 10,000 was moved across the road and shortened by 50m and the BTC Cup was re-named the Doomben 10,000, but I guess they figured doing it how they did was more palatable than moving an iconic Doomben race across the road.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2021 at 1:16pm
Thanks mate .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Afros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2021 at 1:28pm
I'm a big fan of the changes but this coming Saturday feels like a bit of a lull in proceedings in between a great day of racing yesterday and the Stradbroke card next Saturday, I guess with the $500k purse the hope is that the Sapphire Stakes will in time ascend to G1 level and become a target for the top mares.  Other than the Oaks there isn't many races that look exciting on that card.

The obvious push is also on to get the Sires and Q22 promoted to the top level.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lord Hybrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2021 at 4:03pm
There’s some good changes & some bad changes.

I like that they’ve restored the Brisbane Cup to 3200m & tried to craft a good platform of staying races with the Premiers Cup, Q22, etc.

Afros is right about this coming weekend being a bit dull.  Not sure what this Sapphire Stks race is?  Hopefully it never gets awarded G1 status. The last thing the Australian racing landscape needs is another G1 mile race for F&M’s!!  This is probably radical thinking but I’d scrap the Sapphire Stks put some of that prize money to the G1 Qld Oaks & convert the Oaks into a 4yo+ mares race over 2200m.

As for yesterday’s race day, it was a very good racecard but I find it completely obscene that a bunch of 2yo’s were racing for $1m in prize money, whilst proper racehorses in the G1 Kingsford Smith Cup were racing for 30% less prize money at $700k.

Shouldn’t prize money be commensurate with the quality of the race & talent of the horses competing?

Anyway, that’s my rant.  Love to hear others thoughts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2021 at 4:51pm
I'm annoyed with the distance of the Doomben Cup being over 2000 M. when at the top of the straight you have a Shute with a perfect start at 11000 M giving all runners a chance to find a spot before the turn out of the straight , this race was once at this distance .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horlicks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2021 at 4:55pm
Would need some pretty sturdy steeds to run that distance carioca

LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2021 at 5:38pm
Originally posted by Lord Hybrow Lord Hybrow wrote:

....as for yesterday’s race day, it was a very good race card but I find it completely obscene that a bunch of 2yo’s were racing for $1m in prize money, whilst proper racehorses in the G1 Kingsford Smith Cup were racing for 30% less prize money at $700k.  Shouldn’t prize money be commensurate with the quality of the race & talent of the horses competing?  Anyway, that’s my rant.  Love to hear others thoughts. 

I'm with LH.  $1m for a field of ordinary performers, even given some show potential?  The winner's gone from a chump (13 lengths 7th of 9 in the ATC Sires Produce Dead) to a sudden champ with his win (please note the 3rd place-getter remains a maiden).  Not for me thanks, but then again it's all about hype driven by commercial stud breeders. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExceedAndExcel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2021 at 6:26pm
They must be trying to have that race upgraded back to group 1. Only explanation of why you’d throw $1m at it. 
http://amex.com.au/refer/jAMESHrVbk?CPID=100427067

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacko1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2021 at 7:22pm
Yeah I found it odd that the 2yo race was worth so much compared with the Derby, nearly double.

I do wish the Oaks was still 2400m. 2200m is a bit pointless, may as well just make it 2000m if they're more worried about field quality that having it at the classic distance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2021 at 7:26pm
Originally posted by horlicks horlicks wrote:

Would need some pretty sturdy steeds to run that distance carioca

LOL
 Oh dear LOLLOL don't grow old mate. Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Afros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2021 at 6:44am
Originally posted by jacko1 jacko1 wrote:

Yeah I found it odd that the 2yo race was worth so much compared with the Derby, nearly double.

I do wish the Oaks was still 2400m. 2200m is a bit pointless, may as well just make it 2000m if they're more worried about field quality that having it at the classic distance.

They've said they hope to get the Sires back to G1 level so I guess they figured that a purse boost may attract some better horses and help that.

I'd say the Oaks over 2200m is to allow them to back up the following week in the Q22.  Personally I'd like to see the Oaks opened up to the older mares and run at WFA myself, the fillies have already had  the two Sydney and 1 Adelaide G1 over the distance range to target and it would also become a middle distance mares championship as the only mares G1 beyond a mile.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacko1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2021 at 9:26am
Originally posted by Afros Afros wrote:

I'd say the Oaks over 2200m is to allow them to back up the following week in the Q22.  Personally I'd like to see the Oaks opened up to the older mares and run at WFA myself, the fillies have already had  the two Sydney and 1 Adelaide G1 over the distance range to target and it would also become a middle distance mares championship as the only mares G1 beyond a mile.


Interesting idea, although that may impact the O'Shea and Brisbane Cup?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2021 at 10:37am
When did they decide the Queensland Oaks would be permanently 2200m ?

Somebody suggested it was to entice them to the new race but this was not in the works 3 years ago.

Plus why would anybody seriously want to encourage horses to back just one week after a classic race.

We wonder why our stayers are kissed.






reductio ad absurdum



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Afros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2021 at 9:23am
The Oaks has only previously been over 2200m when run at Doomben hasn't it?

In my perfect world the Oaks and the O'Shea (Q22) would both be run over the classic distance with the Oaks also moving back a week to Derby day, I'd also bring the Caloundra Cup day forward to the week before the Stradbroke meeting, the Cup and Glasshouse could be last chance saloon races for the Brisbane Cup and Stradbroke the following week, it may mean the Gunsynd has to move to the Tattersalls meeting but otherwise it would work.

I understand the BRC want the 3 G1 weeks in a row at Eagle Farm but this would be my one criticism of it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr Grieves Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2021 at 11:57am
Well i guess programming the O'Shea and the Brisbane Cup on the same day can be called an epic fail...7 runners in the Cup.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shawy38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2021 at 3:31pm

Glen Boss is favoured to win Saturday's Brisbane Cup, but the champion rider said he would not be concerned if the race was never run again.

Just seven horses were paid-up for on Wednesday to contest Saturday's $400,000 Brisbane Cup and Boss said he feared the race, which reverts back to 3200 metres this year, was no longer viable in the face of great change in the sport, highlighted by Saturday's inaugural Q22.

"If it is not going to do your club any good promotion-wise or for your turnover, you have to look to get rid of it," he said.

"If you are running a business and something is costing you money and you can't fix it, you chop it.

"There's this thing about romance but it's not about that in these times. It's about running a profitable business.

"You don't really need a two-mile race or that sort of staying handicap at this time of year. We've got enough of them in Australia. Once you get to that special distance, you are really narrowing the pool of horses that could possibly run in it.

"That is just the way it is. It's this time of the year when the stayers just aren't around. Traditionalists might blow up, but it is not going to do anyone any good as far as turnover or promotion and so it's no real benefit to the club.

"If it disappeared, people won't miss it."

Of the seven final acceptances, Boss' mount Rondinella boasts the highest rating of just 104 and while she was runner-up in the Sydney Cup, she has not won a race since February 2019.

The three-time Melbourne Cup winner said this year's birth of the $1.2 million weight-for-age Q22 (2200m) race emphasises where modern racing is going.

"No one's talking about the Cup," he said. "They are all taking about the Q22. We've got a really exciting horse (Zaaki) coming through it and you'll get that every year from now on.

"That horse that goes through the Hollindale (Stakes) into this race. Good horses will go through that series and the Cup will just fade into the background."

Boss said Queensland racing might be better without a Brisbane Cup.

"The Q22 can be the flagship stayers' race," Boss said. "Exciting young horses are going to emerge through this race.

"You might as well put your eggs into the one basket. Something that is new and exciting like the Q22.

"It's so different to say the Melbourne Cup. It is part of a series of races that builds to the race. You can go the Cox Plate route through weight-for-age races and try and avoid a penalty or the Caulfield Cup route and people come along for the ride right through the spring.

"Peter V'landys has done a great thing making changes in NSW and Victoria now has The All-Star Mile, which is a very good race. Racing is changing. Tradition has just gone out the window. There are a lot of races that need to be a bit more exciting and more modern.

"So many horses winter in Brisbane and go to Melbourne for the spring and that's been a successful recipe, so you are going to get some quality horses go through the Q22 and then aim up at Melbourne for the big races.

"You've got to embrace change. It is always going to happen, so you embrace it, you don't fight it."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2021 at 4:13pm
Getting a bit yappy this bloke imo , his performance over a Geelong trial by a certain horse was enough for me , it's a pity he didn't say that since the Brisbane cup has lost its tradition " I think I'll donate my winners cheque to charity if I win " Confused really what right has this bloke got to tell trainers and owners what is good or bad for their horses in regard to 2 mile races , didn't mention loyalty , oh no that went decades ago , bet he's sweating on J Mac. copping time , " I'll ride Zaaki for you Annabelle " , history's man.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2021 at 4:29pm
Boss can be a fair pain Carioca, however I applaud him for his clearly well thought out comments in this case.

The programming of these two races surely was a case of the QTC shooting itself in the foot big time, unless it was an underhand strategy to find reason to get rid of the Cup or perhaps run it at a different time of the year over 2400m.

Just imo.  Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2021 at 4:34pm
Originally posted by Mr Grieves Mr Grieves wrote:

Well i guess programming the O'Shea and the Brisbane Cup on the same day can be called an epic fail...7 runners in the Cup.

At least 3 possibly 4 of these horses in the Oshea should be in the Cup.

If both races were same or near the same prizemoney perhaps trainers would do what is right by the horse rather than chase the money.






reductio ad absurdum



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2021 at 4:51pm
For the most part the winner of the Cup had been a 3rd grader. Get rid of it or back to 2400m at another time of the year as a stand alone event.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2021 at 4:56pm
What is wrong with it dropping from group 2 to group 3 or listed level ?

If this years cup was group 3 or listed we'd be fine with this field except maybe the size of it.

However if it was worth 800,000 and the Oshea was 800,000 the Cup benefits and the Oshea probably stays similar. 




reductio ad absurdum



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2021 at 4:56pm
Originally posted by Second Chance Second Chance wrote:

Boss can be a fair pain Carioca, however I applaud him for his clearly well thought out comments in this case.

The programming of these two races surely was a case of the QTC shooting itself in the foot big time, unless it was an underhand strategy to find reason to get rid of the Cup or perhaps run it at a different time of the year over 2400m.

Just imo.  Wink
Yes SC , it's called attrition by stealth !Ouch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2021 at 4:57pm
I doubt the black type committee will raise the Oshea to group 1 level no matter how much money they throw at the race. 




reductio ad absurdum



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2021 at 5:08pm
Being a stickler for all things good in racing LOLLOL every major city should have a local cup , even if it's for PR reasons it can't do any harm and if it's Promoted well even the locals will bet , there's no better place than Brisbane in winter for its cup imo.Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2021 at 5:08pm
Agree with that!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2021 at 5:20pm
When Rough Habit won the Doomben Cup it was on the 22nd of June.

WHy has the climax to the carnival moved so early ?

Stradbroke was the 8th.

When Yippiyo won the Cup it was worth 500,000 and was on the 12th. 




reductio ad absurdum



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