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Australia's Whip Rules

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Batman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2020 at 5:57pm
 
MONSTER OF POWER Ė Rider A. Spinks pleaded guilty to a charge under AR 132(5) in that he used his whip in an excessive manner, that being on 18 occasions. Rider A. Spinksí license to ride in races was suspended for a period of ten (10) days to commence at midnight on 8 November 2020 and to expire at midnight on 18 November 2020. In considering penalty, Stewards took into account a recent breach of the same rule and that the gelding had placed 1st in the race.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horlicks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2020 at 6:48pm
From the Derby

Rider Fred Kersley pleaded guilty under the provisions of AR132(7)(a)(ii) in that he used his whip on 10 occasions prior to the 100 metres which is five more than permitted. Fred Kersley had his licence to ride in races suspended for a period to commence midnight 3 November 2020 to expire at the conclusion of the day meeting on 12 November 2020, a total of 10 race meetings (2 metropolitan, 8 provincial ). Fred Kersley was also fined $10,000. Stewards took into account his record, totality of whip strikes and the fact that he placed 2nd in a Group 1 event.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 10:40am

Horses can feel just as much pain from  as humans




lA andmark scientific paper published today shows that horses have the capability to feel as much pain from whipping as humans.

Racing NSW has a completely contrary view, with its CEO Peter V'Landys recently saying, "we've got to educate the public the whip doesn't hurt".

But the new study reported: "Humans and horses have the equivalent basic anatomic structures to detect pain in the skin."

"Our conclusions are that we need to accept that the physical capacity of horses to accept pain is clear," said the report's author, Paul McGreevy, the Professor of Animal Behaviour and Animal Welfare Science at the University of Sydney.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TJMitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 10:47am
Scale down the whip hitting the human on the ass or shoulder equivalent to a riding whip and a horse and I'd say it wouldn't hurt very much at all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 10:56am

But Kevin Ring, the Work Health and Safety Officer for the Australian Jockey's Association and prior to that a jockey for 30 years, said whips are essential for safety.

"Every horse is different," he said.

"Some react better to certain stimulus, some don't, and others need encouragement, simple as that," he said.

"This is about encouragement, not about hurting the animal."

"I've hit myself with a padded whip and other people, it doesn't hurt. It's only there as a noise thing to encourage the horse."LOL


So ditch the whip and carry a bike horn.Tongue

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TJMitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 11:02am
One of those 'honka, honka' ones LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rusty nails Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 11:44am
Originally posted by TJMitchell TJMitchell wrote:

Scale down the whip hitting the human on the ass or shoulder equivalent to a riding whip and a horse and I'd say it wouldn't hurt very much at all.
Saw some science show on ABC actually whip a human.
She said when contact was only padded bit, no pain.
But when point of contact was the stem (which is often the case in a race) different story.
I seen horses with welts.
Welts hurt them too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 12:38pm
Of course they do rusty, the science is only stating the bleeding obvious but tradition in the industry dies slowly Unhappy Hell, when they skin twitch to remove a fly or mozzy, commonsense says they have the same pain sensations as humans or any other being for that matter!
In case anyone's wondering, I'm as guilty in the past, as the next person in using a whip.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TJMitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 12:40pm
Originally posted by rusty nails rusty nails wrote:

Originally posted by TJMitchell TJMitchell wrote:

Scale down the whip hitting the human on the ass or shoulder equivalent to a riding whip and a horse and I'd say it wouldn't hurt very much at all.
Saw some science show on ABC actually whip a human.
She said when contact was only padded bit, no pain.
But when point of contact was the stem (which is often the case in a race) different story.
I seen horses with welts.
Welts hurt them too.

What size whip did they use?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rusty nails Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 12:58pm
On the bird on tv, or horses with welts after a race recently?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TJMitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 1:59pm
On the lady obviously
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rusty nails Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 2:16pm
Not sure that it matters.

Twisting their ears seems to be at least as painful as it is to humans.

And it wasnít the same strike on the tv girly, as a horse gets in a tight finish.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TJMitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 2:28pm
Originally posted by rusty nails rusty nails wrote:

Not sure that it matters.

Twisting their ears seems to be at least as painful as it is to humans.

And it wasnít the same strike on the tv girly, as a horse gets in a tight finish.

I would think a 50kg woman getting hit with the same whip as 450kg animal would matter. 

Twisting an ear is a lot different then a whip strike on the rear.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 2:46pm
I may have it wrong but are you suggesting a 50gks human feels pain more than a 100kgs one TJ? Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rusty nails Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 2:51pm
Originally posted by TJMitchell TJMitchell wrote:

Originally posted by rusty nails rusty nails wrote:

Not sure that it matters.

Twisting their ears seems to be at least as painful as it is to humans.

And it wasnít the same strike on the tv girly, as a horse gets in a tight finish.

I would think a 50kg woman getting hit with the same whip as 450kg animal would matter. 

Twisting an ear is a lot different then a whip strike on the rear.
Itís a reasonable point you make, but Iím not convinced itís accurate.
I scrolled thru the vid I posted,and came across a bit where they showed that horses have more pain receptors than humans, and they are closer to the skin.

Bottom line, is if it doesnít hurt, how are they supposed to improve a horses performance?


Iím not passionate about it, but I would much prefer zero whips, than what we have atm.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TJMitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 3:04pm
Originally posted by Gay3 Gay3 wrote:

I may have it wrong but are you suggesting a 50gks human feels pain more than a 100kgs one TJ? Confused

Not at all but I am suggesting using the same whip on a 50kg woman that you would use on a 450kg animal may have a different effect. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 3:21pm
100kg person more likely to have more padding than a 50kg person. I've never seen a plump 50kg adult.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 3:35pm
Nice return Tlaz Clap and from the baseline too.LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote International Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 2020 at 2:27pm
Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

100kg person more likely to have more padding than a 50kg person. I've never seen a plump 50kg adult.

Sounded pretty dubious so had a quick look and found this reference.  

Obese people have lower pain threshold, new research shows

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 2020 at 2:33pm
Interesting. But while at that site I found this:

"Black soldier fly larvae contains more zinc and iron than lean meat and its calcium content is higher than milk. Less than half a hectare of black soldier fly larvae can produce more protein than cattle grazing on around 1200 hectares, or 52 hectares of soybeans. New research has identified the barriers for introducing fly protein into Western human diets as a sustainable, healthy alternative to both meat and plant proteins."Tongue

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/10/201029104951.htm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2020 at 5:00pm
So much for the whip being needed for steering & safety Ouch Watch the head on at 1.26min mark Shocked
Copy/paste  https://www.racingqueensland.com.au/racing-and-results/full-calendar/thoroughbred/meeting/emer/20201113/race/2



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TJMitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2020 at 5:07pm
Something has happened to that horse between it's first prep and it's second prep. Watch it's trial and race first prep compared to it's trial and race this time in.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2020 at 5:13pm
Nothing to do with the whip that they don't feel then? Confused I've seen neither his trial/s nor 1st race start as I wouldn't know where to start on Q/land racing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TJMitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2020 at 5:17pm
Just click on the horses name from the page you linked, it'll take you there. He obviously had a reaction to the whip in that replay, but he wasn't right in the head at his trial before that start either.

The prep prior he is whipped in race and trial with no such reaction.

That's why I'm saying something has happened between now and then to make him react that way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2020 at 5:43pm
Oh yes! Only connections would know if thewy can indeed pick up on these things & we can surmise all we like but that's all it would be Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TJMitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2020 at 5:49pm
Yes only a few would know but when you see such an adverse reaction that wasn't there previously your mind does take you in a certain direction.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2020 at 7:01pm
Assuming we're on the same page, there's an art to its' use involving knowing your horse intimately, something few have perfected but those who have, are very successful, tho' they are only judged by their winners, who knows how many epic fails there are Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Good Old Ted Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2021 at 2:38pm
"Neil Farley (Spanish Snitzel) (2nd Placegetter) Pleaded guilty to a charge under the provisions of AR232(b) of having failed to comply with an order, direction or requirement of the Stewards that he failed to use his whip in accordance with conditions of Race Seven today, those conditions being imposed by the Racing Victoria Board pursuant to AR151(2)[c]. In the race he rode Spanish Snitzel and used his whip on nine occasions, being four times over the permitted limit allowable under the relevant conditions of the race. Neil Farleys licence to ride in races was suspended for a period to commence at midnight Monday 22nd February 2021 and to expire at midnight Tuesday 2nd March 2021. (9 meetings, 3 metropolitan, 6 provincial). Neil Farley was also fined $500. In assessing penalty Stewards took into account his guilty plea and the published penalty guidelines surrounding the 2021 Country Mile Race Series. Trainer Con Kelly was notified that in accordance with conditions of the race, due to the breach of the whip rule by rider Neil Farley, Spanish Snitzel is ineligible to compete in any further heats or the final of the 2021 Country Mile race Series."

Very harsh on the owners - jockey gets a pissweak fine and a short spell, the owner miss out on the opportunity for the horse, who had earned by finishing 2nd, a guaranteed place in a $250,000 race. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2021 at 2:58pm
Equally harsh tho', on connections of horses legitimately ridden, who may later be beaten by a horse whose jockey had broken the rules in an earlier heat. Those who accepted for the race were made fully aware of the restrictions. Nice to see stewards act for once, whether one agrees with them or not Clap
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