Thoroughbred Village Home Page. Free horse racing tips at Villagebet.com.au. Contact The Mayor by email: Click Here.
Forum Home Forum Home > All Sports - Public Forums > Joffs All Sports Bar
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Are 'Welcome to Country' ceremonies overdone?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


OldGill.com.au

Are 'Welcome to Country' ceremonies overdone?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 13>
Author
Message
Passing Through View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 09 Jan 2013
Location: At home
Status: Online
Points: 95533
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2025 at 9:55am
That is how it was until Dutton blew the dog whistle on it.
Back to Top
oneonesit View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 06 Aug 2012
Status: Online
Points: 50300
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2025 at 10:03am
Touch hard me thinks

Lets face it....Albo's Voice proposal was his lead act coming out of the last election 

Spent a fortune putting it together only to create a massive divide in the country

0 out of 10 as far as execution went - 80% support down to 40% !

So I think its only fair Dutton tries to get a gauge on Albo's latest ideas in the same area.
And The Boys Light Up.... !
Back to Top
Passing Through View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 09 Jan 2013
Location: At home
Status: Online
Points: 95533
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2025 at 10:07am
Why doesn't he focus on his UV subsidies?

Sounds like the old dead cat strategy to deflect attention from his woes. Hopefully drag back a few ON voters.
Back to Top
Passing Through View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 09 Jan 2013
Location: At home
Status: Online
Points: 95533
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2025 at 10:09am
Why doesn't he talk about his nuclear policy or getting woke out of schools or firing public servants?
Back to Top
oneonesit View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 06 Aug 2012
Status: Online
Points: 50300
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2025 at 10:15am
All very fair points PT....I'm not here to defend Dud Dutton.....perish the thought

None of that however changes the fact that Albo's number one Policy area......the Voice.....was an absolute costly failure. So no need to make comparisons to Dutton PT......we are talking Albos legacy.....its all his. 
And The Boys Light Up.... !
Back to Top
Passing Through View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 09 Jan 2013
Location: At home
Status: Online
Points: 95533
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2025 at 10:21am
Shouldn't we be waiting till he is gone to discuss Albo's legacy? After his 3rd term maybe.

Is this election a referendum on his handling of that one issue?
Back to Top
Passing Through View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 09 Jan 2013
Location: At home
Status: Online
Points: 95533
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2025 at 10:22am
I mean to average punters, not specifically you.
Back to Top
Tlazolteotl View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 02 Oct 2012
Location: Elephant Butte
Status: Offline
Points: 38928
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2025 at 11:09am
'Hate media', 'welcome to country' - Dutton's polling must be showing he's losing the Hansonite vote.Evil Smile

What else has he got in his (MAGA) bag of tricks?Big smile

Manners are of more importance than laws

Edmund Burke
Back to Top
Plastic letters View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 21 Jan 2023
Location: Sydney
Status: Offline
Points: 12925
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Plastic letters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2025 at 11:09am
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

Here's the thing for me Voyager.....your whole reasoning assumes Indigenous own the land.....exclusive to anyone else.  I don't agree with that

So lets flip it over....would there ever be a situation where i could do a Welcome to Country to a group of indigenous folk......& they would accept it like we are supposed to ?

Precise, yet again 1x1.
It’s not about welcoming people to an event. The sole motivation is telling people who really owns the country.
It’s a political weapon and is divisive, intentionally 
Back to Top
jujuno View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 25 Jan 2010
Location: Coasting
Status: Offline
Points: 47076
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jujuno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2025 at 12:37pm
The sole motivation is telling people who really owns the country.

 Hit the nail squarely on the head. 
Desert War, Rain Lover, Latin Knight, Hay List, Mustard...my turf heroes...
Back to Top
Tlazolteotl View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 02 Oct 2012
Location: Elephant Butte
Status: Offline
Points: 38928
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2025 at 12:51pm
You are getting country and country mixed up.Big smile Welcome to country is like you welcoming someone to Coogee, not the whole of Australia.
Manners are of more importance than laws

Edmund Burke
Back to Top
jujuno View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 25 Jan 2010
Location: Coasting
Status: Offline
Points: 47076
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jujuno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2025 at 12:53pm
 It is still proclaiming who once owned Coogee. 

 
Desert War, Rain Lover, Latin Knight, Hay List, Mustard...my turf heroes...
Back to Top
jujuno View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 25 Jan 2010
Location: Coasting
Status: Offline
Points: 47076
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jujuno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2025 at 12:54pm
 Or...'smelly place'...

 
Desert War, Rain Lover, Latin Knight, Hay List, Mustard...my turf heroes...
Back to Top
oneonesit View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 06 Aug 2012
Status: Online
Points: 50300
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2025 at 1:28pm
I see Dutton is copping a lot of bad press over his Welcome To Country stance

Tip - stay well clear if i were your Albo & all your woke mates.......your almost over the line......just the sort of issue that will turn the undecided Wink
And The Boys Light Up.... !
Back to Top
oneonesit View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 06 Aug 2012
Status: Online
Points: 50300
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2025 at 1:29pm
Obviously did learn too much from the Referendum flogging Ouch
And The Boys Light Up.... !
Back to Top
oneonesit View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 06 Aug 2012
Status: Online
Points: 50300
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2025 at 1:29pm
"not"
And The Boys Light Up.... !
Back to Top
oneonesit View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 06 Aug 2012
Status: Online
Points: 50300
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2025 at 1:33pm
Quite odd actually

Why would telling 97% of the population that they are really only entitled to visitor status be of any concern ConfusedOuch
And The Boys Light Up.... !
Back to Top
Tlazolteotl View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 02 Oct 2012
Location: Elephant Butte
Status: Offline
Points: 38928
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2025 at 1:51pm
You raise an interesting point.

I asked Chatty, what is the purpose of welcome to country ceremonies. The first thing it said is:


"Recognition and Respect: It honors the traditional owners' continuing relationship with the land and acknowledges their sovereignty and cultural heritage."

Sovereignty - now that's an interesting word. So I ask Chatty:

Do the traditional owners have sovereignty?

"In Australia, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples are often described as having never ceded their sovereignty. That means they never formally gave up or surrendered their rights to land, law, and governance — either through treaties, agreements, or conquest.

However, under Australian law, sovereignty is considered to rest with the Crown (the government). The High Court's decision in Mabo v Queensland (No 2) (1992) recognized native title — the ongoing connection of Indigenous peoples to land — but it also clearly stated that the British Crown acquired sovereignty when it colonized Australia, and that question of sovereignty was not something the Court could challenge."


So does welcome to country rely on the idea that the Australian law on sovereignty is illegitimate?

"That's a really insightful question — and the answer is nuanced.

A Welcome to Country does not formally challenge Australian legal sovereignty in a direct or legal sense. It's more a cultural and moral recognition that Indigenous peoples were here first, have deep and ongoing connections to their lands, and never ceded their authority or custodianship."






Manners are of more importance than laws

Edmund Burke
Back to Top
Plastic letters View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 21 Jan 2023
Location: Sydney
Status: Offline
Points: 12925
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Plastic letters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2025 at 1:53pm
Originally posted by jujuno jujuno wrote:

The sole motivation is telling people who really owns the country.

 Hit the nail squarely on the head. 

See what happens when you look at content & not who provided it.
It’s an awakening 👐
Back to Top
Plastic letters View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 21 Jan 2023
Location: Sydney
Status: Offline
Points: 12925
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Plastic letters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2025 at 1:56pm
Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

You raise an interesting point.

I asked Chatty, what is the purpose of welcome to country ceremonies. The first thing it said is:


"Recognition and Respect: It honors the traditional owners' continuing relationship with the land and acknowledges their sovereignty and cultural heritage."

Sovereignty - now that's an interesting word. So I ask Chatty:

Do the traditional owners have sovereignty?

"In Australia, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples are often described as having never ceded their sovereignty. That means they never formally gave up or surrendered their rights to land, law, and governance — either through treaties, agreements, or conquest.

However, under Australian law, sovereignty is considered to rest with the Crown (the government). The High Court's decision in Mabo v Queensland (No 2) (1992) recognized native title — the ongoing connection of Indigenous peoples to land — but it also clearly stated that the British Crown acquired sovereignty when it colonized Australia, and that question of sovereignty was not something the Court could challenge."


So does welcome to country rely on the idea that the Australian law on sovereignty is illegitimate?

"That's a really insightful question — and the answer is nuanced.

A Welcome to Country does not formally challenge Australian legal sovereignty in a direct or legal sense. It's more a cultural and moral recognition that Indigenous peoples were here first, have deep and ongoing connections to their lands, and never ceded their authority or custodianship."



Spot on. It’s a dog whistle that’s now being weaponised. Just as Lydia and her cronies
Back to Top
Tlazolteotl View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 02 Oct 2012
Location: Elephant Butte
Status: Offline
Points: 38928
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2025 at 1:56pm
When are we getting Hawkie's nationwide treaty anyway? Soon I hope.Dead
Manners are of more importance than laws

Edmund Burke
Back to Top
jujuno View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 25 Jan 2010
Location: Coasting
Status: Offline
Points: 47076
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jujuno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2025 at 2:28pm
Originally posted by Plastic letters Plastic letters wrote:

Originally posted by jujuno jujuno wrote:

The sole motivation is telling people who really owns the country.

 Hit the nail squarely on the head. 

See what happens when you look at content & not who provided it.
It’s an awakening 👐

 I always look at the content. But you only rarely provide it.

 Nat Butcher was taken out by a hip-drop tackle...no doubt.

 Tongue

Desert War, Rain Lover, Latin Knight, Hay List, Mustard...my turf heroes...
Back to Top
acacia alba View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 31 Oct 2010
Location: Hunter Valley
Status: Offline
Points: 46763
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2025 at 2:45pm
I dont think its needed at EVERY event and place.  When landing in Sydney I dont need to be welcomed home by the invisible people who own the land and sea and sky.
But I do condem those Nazi thugs who carried on when the bloke was trying to speak on Anzac Day.
Disrespectful to the day, and place, and the man himself.
Again,  I find it a bit over the top when they break  it out for the opening of an envelope.
For major events , yes.  For footy games etc, no.
animals before people.
Back to Top
VOYAGER View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 04 Aug 2007
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 19509
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VOYAGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2025 at 1:36am
You are still missing the point oneone.

It has been and always was a part of the Koori culture.

The indigenous population who lived on Bennelong Point when Cook rolled in, welcomed him and his crews. They were strangers and they were welcomed.

As I stated, in every culture this happens. While western cultures may not have a ceremony or official event (which is nonsense because every time a member of the Royal family visits Australia where ever they land they are met by the Prime Minister and Governor General), that does not mean other cultures should follow suit and reject a very human way of greeting visitors and guests.

I suppose people like Bolt who have no knowledge of anything they have not experienced, get swept up in this woke nonsense for anything they do not like or tolerate. What a terrible life they must live, not having experiences outside their four wall box, and these are also the people who allow our governments to govern without innovation and creative thinking so the status quo can be upheld.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but people like Bolt have a soapbox, which is able to reach millions of people, and his ideas are dangerous.

I am not saying I agree with his opponents, but this guy has shown, by continuing to push this issue as the most important thing in our nation needs to address, that he is devisive. That is dangerous!

   
Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
Back to Top
stayer View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 28350
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2025 at 9:10am
Karl Stefanovik of all people made the most sensible comment I've heard about this - if it is a big election issue it only shows how empty of anything else this election is.

I reckon if they just tone it down and speed it up a bit even the Bolt types wouldn't have anything to whinge about. Just make it a nice, polite, friendly thing to do, and tone down the loaded words, IMO.
Back to Top
jujuno View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 25 Jan 2010
Location: Coasting
Status: Offline
Points: 47076
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jujuno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2025 at 10:12am
 "if they just tone it down and speed it up a bit" 

 Exactly. A simple "this event is being held on the former country of the Gadical people...and we welcome everyone present to enjoy it..." would suffice.

 

 
Desert War, Rain Lover, Latin Knight, Hay List, Mustard...my turf heroes...
Back to Top
oneonesit View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 06 Aug 2012
Status: Online
Points: 50300
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2025 at 10:41am
Does that mean we can do away with the burning of leaves & dancing as well ?

I understand we can have different opinions on this....& if occasionally used i may not see it as an issue.....but at the end of the day i think the starting points may be a touch different between a few of us. 

If you accept the land is owned by Indigenous....& the rest of us are here only by invitation.....then Voyagers viewpoint is reasonable

If on the other hand you believe all "Australians" share in owning the land its not.
And The Boys Light Up.... !
Back to Top
Tlazolteotl View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 02 Oct 2012
Location: Elephant Butte
Status: Offline
Points: 38928
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2025 at 10:51am
"If you accept the land is owned by Indigenous"

Different concept of ownership.
Manners are of more importance than laws

Edmund Burke
Back to Top
oneonesit View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 06 Aug 2012
Status: Online
Points: 50300
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2025 at 10:57am
I would also make the point I think traditional ceremonies do little for traditional folk....be it here or any other country.

Go to places like Fiji & the poor buggers are there going through the motions everywhere you go.....being forced to say Bula working in resorts & the like to make out they really like us western types LOL

Stops as soon as you get into town Ouch

Tends just to re-enforce the stereotype that they still live in the past & have not moved on

How many indigenous Australians REALLY carry out that ceremonial  stuff at home or when with friends.....very rarely I would suggest.

Which brings me too all the Indigenous Hakas before games.....they too are now over the top imo. Have them by all means....but its become bigger than the match itself as to who has the longest one in recent years.
And The Boys Light Up.... !
Back to Top
Plastic letters View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 21 Jan 2023
Location: Sydney
Status: Offline
Points: 12925
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Plastic letters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2025 at 11:13am
There’s a different type of smoking ceremony that goes on in downtown Surry hills

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 13>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.05
Copyright ©2001-2022 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.109 seconds.