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2020-21 Racing Season

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rhino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2020 at 12:16pm
A great read Furious. Thanks for posting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kavg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2020 at 5:03pm
Agreed Rhino, excellent reading Furious.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2020 at 6:01pm
So we don't all have to go back a page to read Wink

Originally posted by furious furious wrote:

Yesterday showed that despite the hopeless state of affairs in some places of the world and even all the issues with racing between states 2020 has come up trumps.  The races were keenly run.  So many good runs.  All my picks didn't win but boy I was so pleased with the way they ran that I couldn't be to upset.  Probabeel on the dry.  Funstar on the wet.  Although the second mare also ran the race of her life.  

The two year olds started and already we look to have a new star.  

The three year old mares ran a race record and almost took the track record and yes there all very good also.  Might even have it over the colts who really ruled them as two year olds last season.  

An Australian bred beat all the imports in The Bart Cummings to land a spot in the Cup.  Of course he's not bred to be there but hey he can stay well over 2510m anyway!

Verry Elleegant I left out because of the dry track but no her class shown through.  But I couldn't be disappointed with Finche or Dalasan.  There was less that 1/2 length in it!

And finally a first season sire crop which is promising plenty.  Frosted, Shalaa, Star Turn and Flying Artie already out of the barriers and flying along.  Plenty of others in the wings with stock showing promise also.  Great for the studs and great for the lovers of greys if Frosted's grey offspring step up to the plate.  I hope they do I love the greys.

Then the sprinters also made their mark with Libertini showing she was up to the class of the older sprinters and I still loved Classique Legends run.

Kolding is not going backwards.  His pedigree holds a different story to most top liners.  Ocean Park started slowly but is now doing a stellar job at stud.  Both he and the Danzero (sire of Koldings dam) decend from Hebrew Maid and this family has produced Melbourne Cup (Skipton), Golden Slipper (Danzero) and plenty of Guineas, Oaks and Derby winners.  So Kolding's pedigree already becomes much stronger.

But look at the list of stallions used for his damline.  Ocean Park, Danzero, Semipalatinsk, Head Over Heels, Young Brolga, Malt Denis, Corban, Spearfelt, Sir Dighton, Ayr Laddie, Musk Rose, Precious Stone etc etc.  Some you will know but on the whole no world beating stallions in the list.  But boy this one can gallop.  And for all those saying we are being overrun by the better bred European horses well horses like Kolding have plenty of great bloodlines in their pedigrees.  Horses like Head over Heels whose grandam Never Too Late won the Epsom Oaks and 1000 Guineas.  She also produced Without Fear who proved a good success at stud over here. Young Brolga was a brilliant two year old winning the Breeders' Plate and Sires' Produces S.  While his grandam produced Euphrates (Doomben Cup).  Spearfelt was a very good sire but a better racehorse with the Victoria Derby, Melbourne Cup, Australian Cup, King's Plate among his stakes wins. 

While Probabeel shows what a good job NZ has made of picking out top Australian breed sires.  She has Savabeel (AUS), Pins (AUS) and Centaine (AUS) all in a row.

And it doesn't hurt that Enthaar is from the female line of Denise's Joy as is Thorn Park the sire of Ocean Park above.

Now if Kolding is taking the working mans pedigree to extremes.  Libertini is pretty well a blue blood.  I am Invincible, Encosta de Lago, Danehill, Bletchingly, Whiskey Road, Vain, Regal Light (well they sometimes pick wrong), Empyrean, Helios, The Buzzard, Heroic right back to a champion daughter of the great Trenton out of a daughter of Yattendon and that's the start of the line.  It includes Melbourne Cup winners and champion speedsters and I'd say this one is a speedy miss.

You can't get a much better family than Verry Elleegant decending from Eight Carat but the last three stallions used Zed, Danroad and King's Theatre are not the cream of the crop they are definately sons of the cream and therefore affordable and yes Zed also decends from Eight Carat so like Kolding has a double to a great female line.

Anyway enough yesterday to get me excited for the rest of the season.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VOYAGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 2020 at 1:49am
Great read furious Thumbs Up

I have mentioned a few times that I have looked forward to this spring and I have to say nothing has disappointed. 

The next six weeks are going to be great viewing and all sports fans will have a great buffet of sport to chose from.

Can Verry Elleegant give good stayers weight and win the cups?

Can Russian Camelot fulfil his potential?

Which up and comer will sit at the top of the sprinting group after The Everest?

Are the Sydney 3yo's better than the Victorians? 

Which internationals will be competitive in the cups or Cox Plate?

Can the older gallopers like Humidor and Kings Will Dream repel the youngsters?

Who will be the new stars after the spring? Libertini, Sierra Sue, Toffee Tongue, Superstorm, or someone else?

Will Australia New Zealand be able to repel the invaders in the Melbourne Cup?

Will we see new jockeys and trainers enter the group 1 winners list, or will the usual suspects continue to dominate?

As I said we have a huge six weeks coming up, and I can not wait!
 
Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 2020 at 9:20am
On the weekends results it's already started.  It's a fun ride Voyager.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2020 at 8:16pm
I can't help but think racing is delivering in spades and while the New Zealanders had a top raceday last weekend we can't keep a good Aussie down for long.

Ole Kirk has won the great G1 double of the Golden Rose and Caulfield Guineas.  I can't say I kept with him as I thought he'd had his grand final.  Big mistake.  With his dam being a full sister to Black Caviar and a half sister to All Too Hard sire of Behemoth.  One of the top families in recent years Ole Kirk will no doubt have earned a place in one of our better stud farms.  While he is from the Northern Dancer sireline his grandsire Last Tycoon is cropping up in the sirelines of plenty of G1 winners with his sire son O'Reilly also having two young guns at stud in Brutal and Grunt.  Now to make this even more amazing is Grunt comes from the same 13b female line of Hebrew Maid which gave us Ocean Park and Danzero who crossed well in the Kolding pedigree.

But the big news here was the great double of both Guineas falling to a son and daughter of Written Tycoon.  Sitting on top of the Sires List Written Tycoon definitely moved further ahead.  He also picked up the winner of a G2 in Dirty Work.  But no doubt next weekend could change that list.  Written Tycoon is also a great advertisement for the Australasian bred stallion.  Decending from the first official thoroughbred mare in Australia - Manto - he is as Australian as any horse can be.  Likewise he wasn't bred in the purple with his sire Iglesia being only a G2/G3 winner (over sprint trips).  Iglesia's 1/2 brother Yippyio was a dual G1 winner  in the Queensland Derby and Brisbane Cup.  But he also finished 2nd in the Melbourne Cup.  So their dam was very versatile.

The look at the stallions used in the female line of Written Tycoon.  Kenmare, Vain, Better Boy, Summertime all top class sires with many wins on board for sire standings.  The class is there in his pedigree.  Enough staying blood also there so it would be interesting if he every throws a good stayer.

Now like a few from last week Odeum had a double cross to her female line through Marscay (sire of Iglesia's great dam).  This is a USA line of mares and isn't a close cross like the other two (Eight Carat & Verry Elleegant).  But I like to see these distance crosses in pedigrees.  They do still seem to have an effect. Also I love to see the Great Strawberry Road cropping up in Odeum's pedigree.  He was a beautiful animal who possibly would of been overlooked if at stud in Australia but he appears in plenty of good pedigrees including the top sire Quality Road over there.

Dirty Work brought in a double of Vain and his dam had a double of Bletchingly to cross to the Biscay blood of Marscay in Iglesia.  So another nice pedigree.

All told it was a day for the Aussies in Victoria seeing I Am invincible (G3 & LR), Shamus Award (G1 & G3), Redoute's Choice (LR and sire of the dam of Arcadia Queen G1), Written Tycoon (G1, G1, G2), Pierro (G1).  And on the Day Frankel was expected to sire a G1 winner his big brother at stud in Australia Bullet Train sired a G2 winner in Chapada!

Shamus Award a Cox Plate winning son of Snitzel certainly deserves a pat on the back also.  Unlike Written Tycoon Shamus belongs to a European family with his great grandam being imported back late 1980s.  While she didn't produce any stakes winners her grandaughter Fimatino is the dam of Shaquero (last weeks Breeders' P winner).

Mr Quickie unlike his sire belongs to another female line which first came to Australia back in the 1800's.  Rosedale was the dam of two stakes winners over a sprint trip.  But somehow that was turned around while the family had a stint over in New Zealand.  Because before returning to Australia up cropped a great staying mare in Horlicks who was a G1 winner five times over the 2000 or 2100m trip in Australia and New Zealand.  But then took her middle distance ability further to win over 2400m in the Japan Cup.  While her son Brew did win a Melbourne Cup he wasn't as good has his dam.  So here we are full circle with Mr Quickie an Aussie bred with a 2400m win in the Queensland Derby to his name and now also a G1 miler.

Arcadia Queen may come from WA but she fitted in on this day very well.  After all Pierro is a son of Lonhro a winner of the Guineas.  While her dam is a daughter of Redoute's Choice also a winner of the Guineas.  Next sire Metal Storm is a son of Kenmare (also in the pedigree of Written Tycoon) oh and further down her female line Bletchingly and Vain.  She was back to her best and her best is not to be overlooked.
 
While the Sydney races pretty well ran the same way.  The list of sires being Dane Shadow, Snitzel, Lonhro, Dundeel, So You Think, Medaglia D'Oro (out of a Redoute's mare), Kermadec, Sebring and Sizzling.  I though Montefilia probably would of been flattened last week after such a hard win but she is an iron filly.  Her sire Kermadec was an excellent miler winning the Doncaster H and George Main Stakes but I think this one will go further.  Probably like Ramruma (Epsom, Irish and Yorkshire Oaks) who was produced by Montefilia's 4th dam.

Didn't mind that another Aussie showed some staying power with Chapada winning the Herbert Power Stakes.  Despite having quite a bit of European sprinting blood there in his veins he decends from Lily of the Valley who had a very big part to play in the early 1900's in Australia.  At stud Lily of the Valley produced Valais who was to five times our Champion Stallion.  His son Heroic did even better!




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2020 at 8:30pm
Chapada arguably needed that European sprinting blood on the distaff side Furious, as she's almost certainly the first Bullet Train (sibling to Group 1 winners Frankel and Noble Mission) galloper that could manage to get out of first gear.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2020 at 8:34pm
Well he can gallop and the family must of had something to offer in the past that suited Australian racing.  It's an interesting bunch of races we have coming up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brudder_A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2020 at 12:43pm
Only 3 starters in the G3 Blue Sapphire Stakes on Wednesday?

Hmmmm

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2020 at 12:52pm
Maybe no one wanted to come up against Anders?  Very strange though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 2020 at 3:51pm
Talking about that 13b family of Hebrew Maid and yet another crops up in Albarado (Savabeel to O'Reilly).

I find that Captivant (decends from Kilmarie a filly I followed from the sales and her family has been gold) takes Star Kingdom to extreme.  You find Paris Review, Marscay x 2, Biscay x 3, Noholme x 2, Luskin Star, Kaoru Star, Blazing Sword, Bletchingly, Brigand, River Rough and the mare Fairy Dream.  That is 15 representatives of a stallion who was supreme back in his day.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 2020 at 4:12pm
What a mare It's Me is.  She decends from Herringbone (dam of Dogger Bank) and Schiaparelli (dam of Masthead and Herringbone - winner of the English St Leger and 1000 Guineas).  Both Masthead and Dogger Bank made their way to stud in Australasia.  Masthead sired Matrice (1973 Australian Bred Champion Sire) the first Australian bred stallion since Spearfelt has won back in 1943.  A thirty year break.  Most of the Dogger Banks raced in New Zealand but Te Poi (Doncaster H) and The Wash (Queensland Derby & Brisbane Cup) won over here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 2020 at 4:19pm
It's just one of those days.  California Zimbol decends from the dam of Zeddaan.  Zeddaan a son of Grey Sovereign was the sire of Adraan, who from a short stud career in Australia before his early death, looked like the next big stallion.  From one season and only 27 foals he got 7 stakes winners.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 7:21pm
Ok today yet another first season sire Odyssey Moon (Snitzel) had his first winner.  We are not to the end of October and already five first season sires have a winner on the board.  With a further two in Extreme Choice and Star Turn having stakes placegetters.  Sure we have a Written Tycoon filly who looks to be better than average but these young boys are giving plenty of studs and breeders a chance to get excited.  I hope they keep it up all season.  Could be if Frosted comes out on top we will see a new sireline get a foothold in our sire standings.  Even if one of the others rides supreme it is great to see a young group of stallions showing such early promise.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 7:37pm
The finality of our 18-year full-on breeding "change of life" with just five broodmares concluded when the very last two of them deceased in 2019.

The first (having one stakes-winner from one to race) was euthenized in foal to Impending, and the other (100% winners including two stakes-performers) died in foal to Frosted.

Can only guess what a live Frosted foal might have brought in 2021. But that just summarizes the perils of hobby/boutique breeding and just "what might have been".  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 7:45pm
So sorry you lost both of them SC.  It is certainly a hard industry sometimes.  But you have seen both sides.  Many breeders would dream of breeding some as good as you managed to get.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2020 at 12:43pm
Here is a query for everyone.  What do Tears of Jupiter, Palamos, Puysegur, Gainsford, Flying Visit, Moneymore, Goko, Run Fox Run, Sea Ways, Lavaglo, Need I say More, De La Terre, Plushenko, Sure Is, Vitesse Bo, Dragon Storm, Miss Tycoon Rose, Trouser the Cash, Lockheed, Baltic Success, Lipizzaner, Fire and Ice and Second Base have in common?  I expect most of you will get it pretty quickly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2020 at 1:33pm
Come on someone must get it by now!  Hint look outside of Australia.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max manewer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2020 at 1:43pm
What's the prize ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2020 at 2:35pm
Show's you have brainpower!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TJMitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2020 at 2:41pm
They all raced yesterday
Time is a flat circle
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TJMitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2020 at 2:44pm
Or won yesterday maybe?
Time is a flat circle
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2020 at 3:33pm
All won but something else ties them up.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baghdad Bob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2020 at 3:34pm
All have raced in the 20th or the 21st centuries,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grey Affair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2020 at 3:42pm
All have an Australian bred parent. Some of them won stakes races yesterday.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2020 at 3:45pm
A parent-ly your correct GA. Star
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2020 at 4:03pm
No but good try.  They raced in NZ, HK, South Africa, England and Ireland and all won.  They all had at least one Australian bred parent.  Of course some were bred here also.  Just saying not to get to worried when our middle distance races seem to fall to overseas bred horses.  We send ours out there in small numbers but they bounce up all over the place.  This is the list -

Gainsford (Gimmethegreenlight (AUS) – More than Ready x Yes She Can Cancan by Canny Lad) from Right Royal Diva (AUS) (Stratum (Redoute’s Choice) inbred to Canny Lad, Sir Tristram and dam inbred to Luskin Star

Run Fox Run (Foxwedge (AUS) – Fastnet Rock x Forest Native) from Victory Cry (AUS) (General Nediym) carries a cross of Biscay, Sir Tristram and Northern Dancer

Sea Ways (Ashaawes) from Maayaat (AUS) (Sebring x Porto Cervo by Danzero)  dam inbred to Danehill

Second Base (Gimmethgreenlight as above) and carries Canny Lad, Bletchingly, Biscay, Marauding, Red Anchor etc in his pedigree

Fire and Ice (Noble Turne) from Spitfire Lady (AUS) (Hussonet x Galroof)

Flying Visit (Pride of Dubai (AUS) – Street Cry x Al Anood by Danehill) inbred to Northern Dancer, Danehill and Danzig

Lipizzaner (Uncle Mo) from Irish Lights (AUS) (Fastnet Rock x Aspen Falls by Hennessy) inbred to Danzig and Northern Dancer

Moneymore (Reward for Effort (AUS) – Exceed and Excel x Miss Prospect by Rory’s Jester) from Just Stunning (AUS) by Snippets  carries Rory’s Jester, Crown Jester, Baguette, Todman etc

Goko (O’Reilly) from Miraculous Miss (AUS) (Exceed and Excel x Galway Lass by Rhythm)

Baltic Success (Exceed and Excel (AUS) – Danehill x Patrona by Lomond) from Madame Pedrille (AUS) (Secret Savings – Damzelle Pedrille by Zoffany)

Lockheel (Exceed and Excel (AUS) as above)

Trouser the Cash (Sparspangledbanner (AUS) – Choisir x Gold Anthem by Made of Gold) from Bint Malyana carries Vain, Biscay, Noholme etc

Miss Tycoon Rose (Written Tycoon (AUS) – Iglesia x Party Miss by Kenmare) from Splat (AUS) (More than Ready) carries Marscay, Biscay, Noholme, Bogan Road, Vain etc

Puysegur (Fastnet Rock (AUS) – Danehill x Piccadilly Circus by Royal Academy) from Pins ‘n’ Needles (Pins (AUS) from Raining by Centaine (AUS)

Dragon Storm (Shocking (AUS) – Street Cry x Maria di Castiglia by Danehill) from Prize Lady

Vitesse Bo (Prosir (AUS) by Choisir x Prophet Jewel by Encosta de Lago)  from Cissy Bowen  (Colombia) carries an inbreeding to Biscay but also Centaine, Century, Todman, Vain etc

Sure Is (Highly Recommended (AUS) – Fastnet Rock x Suggestive by Al Hareb) from Umachelle (AUS) (Umatilla x Filabina by Lord Ballina (AUS)) inbred to Northern Dancer, Nijinsky and Biscay but also has Star Affair, Marauding, Bletchingly etc

Palamos (Extreme Choice (AUS) – Not a Single Doubt x Exremely by Hussonet) from Unrevealed inbred to Raise a Native and Mr Prospector but carries Rory’s Jester, Crown Jester, Redoute’s Choice, Canny Lad, Bletchingly, Biscay, Baguette etc

Plushenko (Rock ‘n’ Pop (AUS) – Fastnet Rock x Popsy by Sir Tristram) from Russian also with Marauding, Biscay ect

D La Terre (Reliable Man) from Veva Girl (AUS) (Fastnet Rock x Barawin by Barathea) also carries Handy Proverb, Marauding, Biscay, Luskin Star etc

Need I Say More (No Nay Never) from Bo Bardi (AUS) (Fastnet Rock – Our Golden Dream) inbred to Nijinsky and Northern Dancer

Lavaglo (Rock ‘n’ Pop (AUS)) as above & includes Octagonal on the damside

Tears of Jupiter (Zoustar (AUS) – Northern Meteor x Zouzou by Redoute’s Choice) from Snow Blitz (AUS) (Zabeel) also has Covetous, Luskin Star, Kaoru Star, Star Shower, Star of Heaven, Canny Lad, Bletchingly, Biscay etc

If I'd included the sire of the dam in the criteria the list would of been longer but I though sire or dam was good enough.

The Gimmethegreelight from a Stratum mare (Gainsford) in South Africa decends from Startling Lass (Silver Shadow, Reisling Slipper Trial, Veuve Cliquot C) and related to Midnight Fever (Blue Diamond) and one of my all time favourites in Igloo (Brisbane Cup, Chipping Norton S, Caulfield S, Turnbull S) - he was an ugly duckling but I loved him as a teenager.

While Baltic Success decends from Simper dam of six stakes winners including Gold Light (NZ Oaks & numerous other stakes races), Razzle Dazzle (NZ Oaks) and Sir Simper (Toorak H).  Her grandaughter Lambent went on to produce an Aussie superstar in Flight (AJC Champagne S, W S Cox Plate [twice - didn't see her running last Friday], LKS Mackinnon S, C F Orr S, AJC Plate (Queen Elizabeth s) etc).  Flight's daughter produced two Golden Slipper/Derby winners in the Champion Sky High (Golden Slipper, VRC Derby, Champagne S, Epsom Hcp, Caulfield S (twice), Futurity S, L K S Mackinnon S, LIghtning S (twice), Warwick S (twice), Rawson S (twice) and many more) and his full brother Skyline (Golden Slipper S and AJC Derby).  Pretty sure no other full brothers have come close to that record.

De La Terre decends from La Caissier (Flight S, Wakeful S, Surround S ect)

Tears of Jupiter is from a daughter of Golden Slipper winner Polar Success.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2020 at 4:03pm
Sorry yes Grey Affair I was writing the above when you posted.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2020 at 4:08pm
Well Todman and Noholme were both great but they didn't win the Golden Slipper/Derby combo.  They each won multiple G1 races but went on different paths.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2020 at 4:09pm
Same could be said about Time and Tide and Fine and Dandy.  Actually Star Kingdom full siblings had pretty good records.
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