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2019 Melbourne Cup

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Grey Affair View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grey Affair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2019 at 8:49pm
I'm not saying I agree with it.

Also, many would suggest that the allowance for 3yos is far greater than it should be.

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VOYAGER View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VOYAGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2019 at 8:55pm
I do think what you said was correct, but it should not be, so I was agreeing with you, and having a dig at Timeform
Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grey Affair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2019 at 9:22pm
I hope I didn't sound argumentative. I didn't mean to as I agree with your comments. Often, the reason young horses perform well as 2yo & 3yo is because they have matured earlier than their contemporaries & they may have no or little improvement left as they grow older, certainly in comparison to the WFA scale. You raise a very good point as to whether ratings services should allow for improvement.

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Jamal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2019 at 10:39pm
Originally posted by VOYAGER VOYAGER wrote:

Originally posted by Grey Affair Grey Affair wrote:

Il Paradiso probably gets an additional 9 or 10 pounds for being a Northern Hemisphere 3yo.



I would understand that GA, but for one thing.

He has already been given the advantage by carrying less weight!, That factor should have already been used in the rating of the performance, there should be no need for adjustment in a handicap race.

You can not put up a rating in Timeform, for potential. In this race he was carrying less weight than the older POA, but POA's, form was analysed as being only slightly better than the 3yo's. And do not forget Carpenter is a member of the Timeform group for this region of the world, I hope I have read that correctly.

Either the Timeform rating is on a specific performance or it is not.

Either way I have a very cautious view of Timeform ratings, regardless of where the rating is given.


Carpenter is not part of the Timeform team in Australia. Carpenter is the Australian rep for the Lingines IFHA (International Federation of Horseracing Authorities)

Each rep from each country meet to discuss the ratings for best races horse in the world for awards. For me more info on that..see link below:

https://www.longines.com.au/universe/events-sports/rankings/race-horse-rankings

Timeform is different and they use different methods. However I use Timeform ratings over the Longines ratings.
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Jamal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2019 at 10:39pm
And also Timeform is for performances
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kavg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2019 at 8:13am
All the ratings systems are flawed.

The logic behind them is outdated.

The rating for il paradiso is overinflated. He got baulked over last 50m. Probably cost him half length at most. It was a low rating slowly run cup with a very bunched finish.

How he is rated 5 points higher than v+d is not logical. How he is rated 4 above master of reality who carried a lot more weight is also not logical.

If you want peace in this world stop being a hypocrite and start with what is on your plate and in your bowl.
Black Lives Matter. No justice no peace.
DiEM25 for the world.
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Jamal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2019 at 10:00am
Prince Of Arran off to HK. Original idea was Japan Cup but no barrier blankets are allowed so he is off to HK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VOYAGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 2019 at 1:34pm
fiddlesticks, they make it difficult.

At the recent Melbourne City Council meeting there was a motion put forward, to eliminate the Melbourne Cup parade.

The motion was put forward by a greens councillor, and another wept as she told of her horror that her council supported such a barbaric industry.

Any type of activist, protestor or radical extreme supporter of anything are the individuals who strengthen the voice of those who do not want change.

I am absolutely 100% serious when I say this.

These individuals, will not stop until every person stops consuming animals for food, we all stop having pets, and the only animals on the planet are wild.

I am all for promoting, supporting and overseeing animal protection, but we all need to be very careful, that we do not allow a section of the community to dictate what we all think, we have already been through that when the church was more influential, and we have seen what happened in those days.

Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2019 at 2:10pm
The Ratings for the Melb Cup did brilliant.    Had about 10 chances .

The Countries best Jockey , combined by his best ride ever , showed his Caulfield Cup , very wide run ,   was the key to the Grand Final .

Williams went forward and won the Cup twice, being in front at winning post both times.

His (Shane Dye) ride on a very wide drawn stayer =   Genius .

Lead,     Take a sit ,    1st prize thank you.
NEVER FORGET,    > DOCTORS < ---
   CAN'T SAVE THEMSELVES.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kavg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2019 at 2:48pm
Is it 16 November or December today? Or did someone just wake up from a comaBig smile
If you want peace in this world stop being a hypocrite and start with what is on your plate and in your bowl.
Black Lives Matter. No justice no peace.
DiEM25 for the world.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2019 at 3:43pm
Originally posted by kavg kavg wrote:

Is it 16 November or December today? Or did someone just wake up from a comaBig smile


I've been catching up on my ratings & crying about all the winners I missed .

   Voyager is always miles ahead with his work, Ratings and selections and I balance up by being always miles behind .

   Some are worse than me and tip after the Races.

Congratulations on your observations and seizing an opportunity to make a name for yourself .     You failed ... It still stinks , as always.
NEVER FORGET,    > DOCTORS < ---
   CAN'T SAVE THEMSELVES.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kavg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2019 at 3:53pm
The only thing that stinks and is rated as a fail is doing ratings with hindsight! 
If you want peace in this world stop being a hypocrite and start with what is on your plate and in your bowl.
Black Lives Matter. No justice no peace.
DiEM25 for the world.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2019 at 4:25pm
Originally posted by kavg kavg wrote:

The only thing that stinks and is rated as a fail is doing ratings with hindsight! 

Ratings are always done after the races .
I didn't back the winner because of the draw ..   ( my   point ) but was in my top few.

Ratings are as good as ever .    Even back to the Cliff Carey era .

     ( Don Scott put the best of the best past ratings into his value pricing & changed The Punt for a lot of people )    GREAT work.

    The problem facing the punt today is the never ending drain on the Punter Dollar to buy toys for the likes of V'Landy.
He doubled the take out percentages on NSW racing and we punters still line up .
   We are reaching the stage where poker machines are better value ( Yoke Yoyce ) as Graham Kennedy Would say .       Merry Xmas to you & yours.
NEVER FORGET,    > DOCTORS < ---
   CAN'T SAVE THEMSELVES.
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Jamal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2019 at 12:07pm
Originally posted by maccamax maccamax wrote:

Originally posted by kavg kavg wrote:

The only thing that stinks and is rated as a fail is doing ratings with hindsight! 

Ratings are always done after the races .
I didn't back the winner because of the draw ..   ( my   point ) but was in my top few.

Ratings are as good as ever .    Even back to the Cliff Carey era .

     ( Don Scott put the best of the best past ratings into his value pricing & changed The Punt for a lot of people )    GREAT work.

    The problem facing the punt today is the never ending drain on the Punter Dollar to buy toys for the likes of V'Landy.
He doubled the take out percentages on NSW racing and we punters still line up .
   We are reaching the stage where poker machines are better value ( Yoke Yoyce ) as Graham Kennedy Would say .       Merry Xmas to you & yours.



Why would the draw put you off? Cup winners have won from wide gates
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2020 at 12:30pm
As far as I can see NO bookmakers have seen the need to add Haky to the Melbourne Cup markets.

Amateurs fair dinkum amateurs.






reductio ad absurdum



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max manewer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max manewer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2020 at 12:34pm
You mean they are taking all-in bets on the 2020 MC, in the current uncertainty ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2020 at 8:03pm
Originally posted by max manewer max manewer wrote:

You mean they are taking all-in bets on the 2020 MC, in the current uncertainty ?


They all have markets up.

They should be up to date.





reductio ad absurdum



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