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2019 Melbourne Cup

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horlicks View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horlicks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 6:16pm
O"Brien said he left the tactics entirely to Craig,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote kavg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 6:22pm
Just goes to show that we can breed two milers. As has been pointed out before english or Epsom derby winner Anthony van dyck is by an Aussie broodmare believensucceed by exceed and excel. The blood is similar all over the world and it is training, patience and preparation that count.
If you want peace in this world stop being a hypocrite and start with what is on your plate and in your bowl.
Prejudice is an emotional attachment to ignorance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 6:26pm
Originally posted by Second Chance Second Chance wrote:

But back to serious stuff re the locally trained gallopers.

Vow and Declare 1st: how do you draw 21 yet turn out of the straight in 3rd place on the fence?  Just outstanding from Williams. 

Surprise Baby 5th: ridden to instructions from his draw and just fantastic given the slow pace.

Finche 7th:  given a good ride as you'd expect from McEvoy and ran well if unable to quite finish off.

Steel Prince 9th: absolutely huge to get beaten 2.1 lengths after pulling his head off for 2400m.

Sound 12th: too big an ask from last or thereabouts throughout.

Constantinople 13th: lost his position big time mid-race and can understand why many Oz and UK trainers don't really have much to say about Moreira in staying events downunder.

Mirage Dancer 14th:  didn't watch closely but seem to remember he was caught wide.

The Chosen One 17th:  never in the hunt after settling back.

Youngstar 20th: tried hard enough but would maybe have been better suited in the 2800m race on today's card.

Beufbosc 21st: nothing more or less than you'd expect.

Mustajeer 23rd : woeful

Rostropovich last: presumably pulled up sore, very tired, or both.


Go and watch the 1999 Melbourne Cup. Rogan Josh won from barrier 21, and John Marshall rode a similar ride to what Craig Williams produced.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Balciano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 6:30pm
Originally posted by saintly96 saintly96 wrote:

[QUOTE=Jamal] I got 51 dollars for Vow And Declare three no the ago



But Aussie horses are a disgrace compared to the Euro's.

Add that to the $81 Surprise Baby bet first mentioned after the Bart Cummings.

Terrific Cup all the same, good luck to those who had a decent collect.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Afros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 6:31pm
Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

I backed the winner each way and Prince Of Arran each way. I also had 30 per cent of the trifecta.

So as always when I get a big win..it's Chinese for dinner tonight.


All you have done for months is bang on about the price you got about Surprise Baby, did you back the whole field?

Also can get a feed of Chinese for $10 at most country pubs, so your a dollar each way punter?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SHOVHOG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 6:35pm
The Andrew Ramsden form held up brilliantly. Might be a turning point for that race.
" In gambling the many must lose in order for the few to win"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Redemption Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 6:49pm
Well done to those who chose Vow and Declare.

Personally, I didnt like the Cup.
Slow pace, but why not be brave and take off at the 1000.
There was no bravery.
The same jockeys, made the same mistake in 2015. Obviously didnt learn from that.

Surprise Baby was unbelievable.

Craig Williams, great ride.
And Vow and Declare just coming back at them, getting hammered on the rail, deserved to win anyway.

At least it wasnt a bloodbath Cup, but almost was. 3 horses could have fallen at the winning post, then it would have been carnage behind, at the winning post.
Our sport almost lost millions of people at a famous winning post, in a famous race, because of Dettori.
Hope he doent come back. It was insane.
I cant even begin to imagine, had Il Paradiso fallen, Vow and Declare fallen, then a bunch of horses behind, including an injured Rostropovich, trying to even get past carnage, ummmmm?
Sorry to sounds so doomsday, but the Cup was almost an absolute disaster right at the winning post.

It was last year at the winning post too. The race seems jinxed at the moment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExceedAndExcel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 7:28pm
Originally posted by ExceedAndExcel ExceedAndExcel wrote:

Ok about to head out to Flemington. Weather looks fantastic for once. Hope it holds throughout the day.

Cup trifecta:

15,19,20,23

4,5,6,7,8,12,13,14,15,18,19,20,23


4,5,6,7,8,12,13,14,15,18,19,20,23


May put Finch back in for the minors come 3pm. Will see what happens.





Let’s just say the upheld protest was much appreciated!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 7:40pm
Originally posted by Balciano Balciano wrote:

Originally posted by saintly96 saintly96 wrote:

[QUOTE=Jamal] I got 51 dollars for Vow And Declare three no the ago



But Aussie horses are a disgrace compared to the Euro's.

Add that to the $81 Surprise Baby bet first mentioned after the Bart Cummings.

Terrific Cup all the same, good luck to those who had a decent collect.


I still backed Vow And Declare in September..got $51. Happy days.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 7:41pm
Originally posted by Afros Afros wrote:

Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

I backed the winner each way and Prince Of Arran each way. I also had 30 per cent of the trifecta.

So as always when I get a big win..it's Chinese for dinner tonight.


All you have done for months is bang on about the price you got about Surprise Baby, did you back the whole field?

Also can get a feed of Chinese for $10 at most country pubs, so your a dollar each way punter?




I still backed Vow And Declare in September..got $51. Happy days
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote saintly96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 8:03pm
Just proves you are a hypocrite.

Happy days.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 9:01pm
Just love that an Aussie horse beat all those imports, and international trainers, and jockeys. Clap  O'Briens can keep on stacking the field but it doesnt mean they can win !LOL  How do they qualify so many horses when Aussie cant get in ?  
Just goes to show its still our race that stops a nation.  Beer
And i reckon a bit better forward place in the run and Surprise Baby could have swamped them all.
Good on Craig W.   He speaks well and isnt up himself.
Just for the record, I didnt have a bet.  Most Un-Australian I know.  But am still celebrating the Aussie horse beating all the fancy high bred OS contenders Star
animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 10:00pm
I didn't have a bet myself AA, most unusual for me on Cup day, but had him on top in my tips fwiw.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 10:05pm
Good on you Carioca.  I didnt pick him.  I was on Surprise Baby as my choice.  But so so pleased V&D won.  If I had a bet I would have boxed V&D, Prince Of Arran, and Surprise Baby.  
Next year lets hope SB comes out and wins.
animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bombers41 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 10:51pm
what a farce honestly - frankie dettori taking out il paradiso who was running straight past vow and declare and would have won. Not dissimilar to 2015 when he took out half the field allowing 100/1 shot prince of penzance to get up and win...
he shouldn't be allowed to ride back here - instead he gets a small fine and ban for a few weeks which he will probably appeal and get off. the industry in a bit of a shambles at the minute and its a shame to see our great race ruined by these type of repeated incidence. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 11:43pm
The 4th horse ( on protest) had them beaten and ducked in , throwing certain victory into defeat.

   I wonder has he been talking to Humidor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Afros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 4:23am
Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

Originally posted by Balciano Balciano wrote:

Originally posted by saintly96 saintly96 wrote:

[QUOTE=Jamal] I got 51 dollars for Vow And Declare three no the ago



But Aussie horses are a disgrace compared to the Euro's.

Add that to the $81 Surprise Baby bet first mentioned after the Bart Cummings.

Terrific Cup all the same, good luck to those who had a decent collect.


I still backed Vow And Declare in September..got $51. Happy days.


If you backed him on his Qld form before he appeared this spring then well played sir. However since you've made sure even the untouched tribes of the Amazon know of your Surprise Baby bets and yet have not mentioned backing this fella I suspect you are just trolling.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Afros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 4:26am
Originally posted by maccamax maccamax wrote:

The 4th horse ( on protest) had them beaten and ducked in , throwing certain victory into defeat.

   I wonder has he been talking to Humidor.


Maybe he needed a stronger rider?   

I wouldn't be surprised if Dettori doesn't ride ever again for Lloyd.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 5:10am
Originally posted by Afros Afros wrote:

Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

Originally posted by Balciano Balciano wrote:

Originally posted by saintly96 saintly96 wrote:

[QUOTE=Jamal] I got 51 dollars for Vow And Declare three no the ago



But Aussie horses are a disgrace compared to the Euro's.

Add that to the $81 Surprise Baby bet first mentioned after the Bart Cummings.

Terrific Cup all the same, good luck to those who had a decent collect.


I still backed Vow And Declare in September..got $51. Happy days.


If you backed him on his Qld form before he appeared this spring then well played sir. However since you've made sure even the untouched tribes of the Amazon know of your Surprise Baby bets and yet have not mentioned backing this fella I suspect you are just trolling.


I'm not trolling actually. It's on my Facebook and Twitter- I posted the winning ticket on there with the odds at $51. Happy for you to add me so that you can see the proof. I certainly did back Vow And Declare 👍
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 5:13am
Interesting that in the 20 year period from 1999 to 2019 there has been four Australian-bred horses who have won the Melbourne Cup. Three of them (Rogan Josh, Shocking and Vow And Declare) won the Cup from barrier 21.

Coincidence of course but an interesting stat 👍
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 5:19am
"how do you draw 21 yet turn out of the straight in 3rd place on the fence? "

It's 900m to the turn - not that hard or it shouldn't be if you've got any initiative - especially when 20 of your opponents are sitting there like dummies, complaining about lack of pace.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 5:38am
Originally posted by Afros Afros wrote:

Originally posted by maccamax maccamax wrote:

The 4th horse ( on protest) had them beaten and ducked in , throwing certain victory into defeat.

   I wonder has he been talking to Humidor.


Maybe he needed a stronger rider?   

I wouldn't be surprised if Dettori doesn't ride ever again for Lloyd.


You're very slow on the uptake if you put Dettori on in australia - he has a very long and consistent formline - "never fails to disappoint" Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 6:13am
Frankie has a better record in the Cup than George Moore.




reductio ad absurdum



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExceedAndExcel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 6:37am
Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

Originally posted by Afros Afros wrote:

Originally posted by maccamax maccamax wrote:

The 4th horse ( on protest) had them beaten and ducked in , throwing certain victory into defeat.

   I wonder has he been talking to Humidor.


Maybe he needed a stronger rider?   

I wouldn't be surprised if Dettori doesn't ride ever again for Lloyd.


You're very slow on the uptake if you put Dettori on in australia - he has a very long and consistent formline - "never fails to disappoint" Wink



Why do people think Lloyd Williams is some almighty sage when it comes to racing? The dude isn’t far removed from the rest of the mugs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 6:39am

"Frankie has been a friend for 27 years and a remarkable sportsman," Williams said. "He's been the best on the world stage for over a quarter of a century. It's an extraordinary performance.

"My comparison is to Roger Federer, but Roger has not been doing it as long.

"What a thrill it would be to see him do it. He is the very, very best and I'm hoping for him he can."

Williams launched a passionate defence of Dettori the last time he rode in the race after being trapped wide on Almandin and finishing 12th.LOL

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 6:42am
He's the best, there's no doubt about that. We're very fortunate to have him."LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brudder_A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 7:52am
Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

He's the best, there's no doubt about that. We're very fortunate to have him."LOL


Yeah... He's the best when its warm at Royal Ascot....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brudder_A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 8:16am
From The BloodHorse :- Dettori's commentary..

High-profile owner Nick Williams described himself as "shattered" for Frankie Dettori after the jockey was suspended for nine meetings and his mount, Master of Reality, demoted to fourth from second in the Nov. 5 Lexus Melbourne Cup (G1) at Flemington, won by the Craig Williams-ridden Vow And Declare.

Dettori, who was booked for the ride on Joseph O'Brien's Master of Reality after his excellent third behind Stradivarius in the Gold Cup (G1) at Royal Ascot, was found guilty of careless riding after stewards objected to interference between the initial runner-up and fourth, the Aidan O'Brien-trained Il Paradiso.

That objection led to a stewards' inquiry involving Master of Reality and Il Paradiso, with the latter's rider, Wayne Lordan, not critical of Dettori's riding. Yet stewards felt the interference was sufficient enough to alter the placings, promoting Prince of Arran to second from third and Il Paradiso to third from fourth.

A subsequent inquiry led to Dettori, set for a month's riding stint in Japan, pleading guilty to careless riding and suspended until Nov. 14.

Dettori was an exasperated figure after being narrowly denied in Australia's most high-profile race. He was hugged by Joseph O'Brien and Nick Williams in the winner's enclosure in the immediate aftermath and said, "I want to cry" before heading back to the weighing room.

Williams said: "I'm shattered for Frankie as he's so determined to win this race. He gave our horse every chance, and nothing would have been better than to win the Melbourne Cup with Frankie, who is the world's best for a reason.

"Sometimes you win, sometimes you don't, and that's racing.

"Master of Reality is a proper two-mile horse and has done a great job for us. Without winning a big race, he has certainly given us some thrills."

Dettori finished second twice previously in the Flemington feature aboard Central Park in 1999 and Max Dynamite in 2015, and Joseph O'Brien sympathized with the star jockey, who was suspended for a month and fined AU$20,000 ($13,790) for his ride on the Willie Mullins-trained runner-up four years ago.

He said: "I'm more gutted for Frankie than I am for myself. I'll be back next year, but I don't know if Frankie is ever going to win this race."

Dettori described the interference between Master of Reality and Il Paradiso as "very minimal."

He said: "Master of Reality was looking for company and went left, but I had both hands on my reins and corrected him. Perhaps I could have corrected him a stride earlier, but it was very minimal interference."

Lordan, successful aboard Iridessa for Joseph O'Brien in the Maker's Mark Breeders' Cup Filly & Mare Turf (G1T) Nov. 2, shared a similar view to Dettori.

He told stewards: "I came from a long way back, and Frankie's horse was getting tired. I didn't have to stop riding and it was very close to the line, so I'm not sure how much difference it made."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 8:43am
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Frankie has a better record in the Cup than George Moore.

George didn't carve them up like this bloke does, chalk and cheese as far as horsemanship goes, you are trolling now djebel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lordy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 8:55am
After watching Mer De Glace in his 2 runs here I reckon it will be easy to pick a Cup winner if the Japanese decide to send their top stayers out.
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