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20 Best horses of the last 2 decades.

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Shrunk in the Wash View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shrunk in the Wash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2019 at 8:25pm
1999 is 20 years so that’s the starting point


Some food for though, which the article lacks


Australian horse of the year
1999 Might & Power
2009 Typhoon Tracey
2013 Lankan Rupee


Champion Middle Distance Racehorse
2004 Grand Armee

Australian Champion Three Year Old
1999 Fairway
2003 Starcraft


Australian Champion Stayer
1999 Tie the Knot



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChrisB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2019 at 8:28pm
Well Afros that depends on what is prioritised.

Jamal clearly rates overseas form highly. I do also but prefer our Sprinter form being World Class. Others prefer longevity and sustained dominance Etc

It's impossible to be "right" on this but it's excellent discussion at least.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shrunk in the Wash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2019 at 8:29pm
Longevity is only a negative for a horse if it doesn’t race at open age.

Time and time again we’ve seen 3yos beat up on their own but get beaten once they turn 4
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChrisB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2019 at 8:36pm
Originally posted by Shrunk in the Wash Shrunk in the Wash wrote:

Longevity is only a negative for a horse if it doesn’t race at open age.

Time and time again we’ve seen 3yos beat up on their own but get beaten once they turn 4


Agree. Which is exactly why The Autumn Sun was retired early.

Form around him awful so breeders bail quick.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2019 at 8:51pm
Originally posted by TJMitchell TJMitchell wrote:

I don't think longevity should be held against how good a horse is, especially one who wins 5 Gr1's in both hemispheres


Here here
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2019 at 8:52pm
From that list:

1. Winx

2. Black Caviar

3. So You Think


Again...in MY opinion
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Lordy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2019 at 9:03pm
Originally posted by ChrisB ChrisB wrote:

Originally posted by Shrunk in the Wash Shrunk in the Wash wrote:

Longevity is only a negative for a horse if it doesn’t race at open age.

Time and time again we’ve seen 3yos beat up on their own but get beaten once they turn 4


Agree. Which is exactly why The Autumn Sun was retired early.

Form around him awful so breeders bail quick.

It's off topic but yes, could have been exposed if he took on older horses. Forget about beating Winx.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2019 at 9:07pm
SYT is better than MD in my opinion. He would beat her in any race from 900m to 2400m, in my humble opinion
An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote saintly96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2019 at 9:15pm
Each to their own, but MD, IMHO, is way too high. I don't have her in the top 3 mares in the last 20 years, let alone the top 3.

She only won 7 G1 races, was beaten way more than she won, failed overseas twice. A champion mare, best stayer I have seen (backed her in all 3 cup wins), but to me, the best win more than they lose. I reckon she was on about par with Elvstroem, despite him beating her more times than she beat him.

Not knocking her, she was a beauty and has a Melbourne Cup record unlikely to be beaten,but great WFA horses rank higher to me, than a greqt staying mare who won the majority of her G1 races in 3200m handicap races.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote MelbourneRacing Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2019 at 9:16pm
This was my list and thanks to djebel for posting the link.

Good to see there's being some sensible debate. Let me give you an insight into how I was thinking when I came up with the list.

First I started with a list of about 30 horses that came immediately to mind. Then I did a quick ranking of what was in my memory. I can assure you that I had it completely wrong at times. Nostalgia can be a real bitch when it comes to facts.

Then I went through the winners of the biggest races we have in Australia and also the Hall of Fame, to make sure I didn't miss anyone obvious. I also then sent a draft list of 20 to a handful of people I respect. They gave some feedback and threw up some names of horses that I had overlooked.

I then did thorough research on all horses and watched replays etc and formed an opinion. Clearly you cannot compare Winx and Black Caviar. Or Black Caviar and Makybe Diva. In a way, the list is pointless other than it lists the 20 or so best horses to have raced in Australia over the past 20 years.

FYI I originally had SYT at 3 behind Winx and BC and then moved him to 4 and then 5. My inner point was that I was disrespecting Makybe Diva's legacy of three Melbourne Cup wins. The fact she was able to win a Cox Plate and an Australian Cup shows her class.

The more research I did on Sunline the more I remembered why I loved her. In hindsight, she was probably poorly managed. They raced her into the ground at times. But she was brilliant nonetheless. I won't try and stop people arguing about who is better between Sunline, Lonhro and Northerly because that's what makes racing great. It's a sport of opinions.

Thus far, the feedback has been largely exceptional, which says to me there's not a long wrong with the list of 20. 

To clarify on a couple of comments though, the person who said Karasi has no business being on this list should go back and watch some replays of the old warrior.

Also, the era is 2000-2019, which is 20 years. You don't count the number zero, so that's why you're mistaken. 

I didn't deem Tie The Knot, Might and Power and some other good horses eligible because of when they did the majority of their racing.

I think I've said plenty but there were always going to be horses unlucky to miss out. I think All Too Hard could have been a top 10 horse if he was allowed to race on, but I couldn't form that opinion based on how much racing he actually did. Grand Armee was probably hard done by and Hay List was stiff, but racing is a tough caper. If you're not first, you're last.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lordy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2019 at 9:16pm
Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

From that list:

1. Winx

2. Black Caviar

3. So You Think


Again...in MY opinion

As it's the 5th time you've said it we understand thats your opinion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChrisB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2019 at 9:20pm
Originally posted by Lordy Lordy wrote:

Originally posted by ChrisB ChrisB wrote:

Originally posted by Shrunk in the Wash Shrunk in the Wash wrote:

Longevity is only a negative for a horse if it doesn’t race at open age.

Time and time again we’ve seen 3yos beat up on their own but get beaten once they turn 4


Agree. Which is exactly why The Autumn Sun was retired early.

Form around him awful so breeders bail quick.

It's off topic but yes, could have been exposed if he took on older horses. Forget about beating Winx.


Not could have imo would have. I doubt he could beat the Clapper or even gone close.

Winx obviously no chance (only reason raised as he was put in a top 30 above....no chance)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote saintly96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2019 at 9:21pm
Great article MelbourneRacing. We all see it differently mate. There is no right and wrong, just opinions. It would be a boring world if we all thought the same all the time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2019 at 9:24pm
Originally posted by saintly96 saintly96 wrote:

Each to their own, but MD, IMHO, is way too high. I don't have her in the top 3 mares in the last 20 years, let alone the top 3.

She only won 7 G1 races, was beaten way more than she won, failed overseas twice. A champion mare, best stayer I have seen (backed her in all 3 cup wins), but to me, the best win more than they lose. I reckon she was on about par with Elvstroem, despite him beating her more times than she beat him.

Not knocking her, she was a beauty and has a Melbourne Cup record unlikely to be beaten,but great WFA horses rank higher to me, than a greqt staying mare who won the majority of her G1 races in 3200m handicap races.


It depends on what floats your boat. FOO wasn't best of anythiny and I don't rate him but he did win two Cox Plates. Anywhere but Moonee Valley he wasn't anything special. But he did win two Cox Plates. Whateeeevvverrrrr.

An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.

Simon Cameron

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lordy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2019 at 9:28pm
Originally posted by saintly96 saintly96 wrote:

Great article MelbourneRacing. We all see it differently mate. There is no right and wrong, just opinions. It would be a boring world if we all thought the same all the time.

Agree. Great list and given the debates are only over a few spots would indicate a pretty good job was done.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote saintly96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2019 at 9:30pm
Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

Originally posted by saintly96 saintly96 wrote:

Each to their own, but MD, IMHO, is way too high. I don't have her in the top 3 mares in the last 20 years, let alone the top 3.

She only won 7 G1 races, was beaten way more than she won, failed overseas twice. A champion mare, best stayer I have seen (backed her in all 3 cup wins), but to me, the best win more than they lose. I reckon she was on about par with Elvstroem, despite him beating her more times than she beat him.

Not knocking her, she was a beauty and has a Melbourne Cup record unlikely to be beaten,but great WFA horses rank higher to me, than a greqt staying mare who won the majority of her G1 races in 3200m handicap races.


It depends on what floats your boat. FOO wasn't best of anythiny and I don't rate him but he did win two Cox Plates. Anywhere but Moonee Valley he wasn't anything special. But he did win two Cox Plates. Whateeeevvverrrrr.



Exactly. It is all just opinion. Nothing wrong with sensible debate, despite the fact people are usually set in their opinions and are rarely swayed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Shrunk in the Wash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2019 at 9:39pm
Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

SYT is better than MD in my opinion. He would beat her in any race from 900m to 2400m, in my humble opinion


NO need to be humble. You’re 100% right. There’s a dozen or more better horses than her in her era
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xavier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2019 at 9:41pm
Opinions are like Christmas puddings, everyone’s got one.
Interesting post and topic, will read up on it later tonight
Karl and Susan Kennedy are my heroes
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shrunk in the Wash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2019 at 9:42pm
Originally posted by MelbourneRacing MelbourneRacing wrote:

This was my list and thanks to djebel for posting the link.

Good to see there's being some sensible debate. Let me give you an insight into how I was thinking when I came up with the list.

First I started with a list of about 30 horses that came immediately to mind. Then I did a quick ranking of what was in my memory. I can assure you that I had it completely wrong at times. Nostalgia can be a real bitch when it comes to facts.

Then I went through the winners of the biggest races we have in Australia and also the Hall of Fame, to make sure I didn't miss anyone obvious. I also then sent a draft list of 20 to a handful of people I respect. They gave some feedback and threw up some names of horses that I had overlooked.

I then did thorough research on all horses and watched replays etc and formed an opinion. Clearly you cannot compare Winx and Black Caviar. Or Black Caviar and Makybe Diva. In a way, the list is pointless other than it lists the 20 or so best horses to have raced in Australia over the past 20 years.

FYI I originally had SYT at 3 behind Winx and BC and then moved him to 4 and then 5. My inner point was that I was disrespecting Makybe Diva's legacy of three Melbourne Cup wins. The fact she was able to win a Cox Plate and an Australian Cup shows her class.

The more research I did on Sunline the more I remembered why I loved her. In hindsight, she was probably poorly managed. They raced her into the ground at times. But she was brilliant nonetheless. I won't try and stop people arguing about who is better between Sunline, Lonhro and Northerly because that's what makes racing great. It's a sport of opinions.

Thus far, the feedback has been largely exceptional, which says to me there's not a long wrong with the list of 20. 

To clarify on a couple of comments though, the person who said Karasi has no business being on this list should go back and watch some replays of the old warrior.

Also, the era is 2000-2019, which is 20 years. You don't count the number zero, so that's why you're mistaken. 

I didn't deem Tie The Knot, Might and Power and some other good horses eligible because of when they did the majority of their racing.

I think I've said plenty but there were always going to be horses unlucky to miss out. I think All Too Hard could have been a top 10 horse if he was allowed to race on, but I couldn't form that opinion based on how much racing he actually did. Grand Armee was probably hard done by and Hay List was stiff, but racing is a tough caper. If you're not first, you're last.


Good on you mate for coming here and giving us your thought process.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Straight arrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2019 at 9:45pm
Just cannot compare champions of different decades let alone champion sprinters against champion middle distance! Or champion stayer! Which in that bunch we really had only one champion stayer. ( maykybe diva) which was also champion middle distance!! She seems to have lost her gloss because she didn't go undefeated? But she was set to beat the handicap for first couple of Melb cups
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChrisB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2019 at 9:50pm
Originally posted by Shrunk in the Wash Shrunk in the Wash wrote:

Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

SYT is better than MD in my opinion. He would beat her in any race from 900m to 2400m, in my humble opinion


NO need to be humble. You’re 100% right. There’s a dozen or more better horses than her in her era


Agree. Massively overrated is MD.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Afros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2019 at 9:50pm
Originally posted by Lordy Lordy wrote:

Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

From that list:

1. Winx

2. Black Caviar

3. So You Think


Again...in MY opinion

As it's the 5th time you've said it we understand thats your opinion.


Just sulky because I disagreed with him so feels he needs to reiterate his point because he seems to have a set against proving me wrong wherever he can, not even sure why but hey if it makes him happy so be it.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JudgeHolden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2019 at 9:57pm
In her final year (and a bit) MD won a Memsie, a Turnbull, an Australian Cup, a BMW, a Cox Plate and two Melbourne Cups. Like to know the “dozen or so” better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2019 at 9:57pm
Originally posted by Shrunk in the Wash Shrunk in the Wash wrote:

Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

SYT is better than MD in my opinion. He would beat her in any race from 900m to 2400m, in my humble opinion


NO need to be humble. You’re 100% right. There’s a dozen or more better horses than her in her era


The reason I'm humble is that I know that there is no logical reason why my opinions in hypotheticals are any more accurate than my bets in real races.
An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChrisB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2019 at 10:01pm
Won two Melbourne Cups in her final year?

That's quite an achievement considering it is only run once a year
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Read it again, dopey.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChrisB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2019 at 10:06pm
Plus the Cup is much stronger now than then now than then, especially now they know how to get in as light weights.

I'd put MD about 10.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WarriSymbol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2019 at 10:09pm
The 20 greatest Australian racehorses of the last two decades!

Why is Sunline on this list?

Kiwi bred
Kiwi owned
Kiwi trained
Kiwi jockey
Kiwi strapper

It's not even debatable whether she was an Australian or New Zealand horse.
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Yes I'm aware "and a bit". How convenient.

Great horse. One or two seasons compared to others with more distinguished records.
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She carried the highest and second highest weights ever for a mare to win the Cups in those runs. Also beat Vinnie Roe, one of the best credentialed Euros to come down. And before anyone mentions Septimus, VR actually performed well.
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