Go to Villagebet.com.au for free horse racing tips - Click here now |
|
Zizzis |
Post Reply | Page <123> |
Author | ||
Sunline
Champion Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 22302 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
What a mess. The fact Payne saw no issue with the ride tells you everything you need to know about whether trainers and jockeys have any idea about tactics.
I'm happy to concede there is a grey area when it comes to determining if the ride was corrupt or simply incompetent, but there is no grey area around whether it was an extreme case of not permitting the horse every chance through the ride. Barriers are not mitigating circumstances.
|
||
Sunline...simply supreme
|
||
3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Think you're being kind to Payne Sunline.
Egan wouldn't have got off in NSW.
Stewards could still charge him with incompetent riding. Don't know why they didn't use both rules in the first place. |
||
Prince of Penzance
Champion Joined: 17 Jan 2018 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 1938 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I hope hatch is not a licensed person.
Bad mouthing Mr Waller could get him into trouble |
||
JudgeHolden
Champion Joined: 16 Apr 2011 Status: Offline Points: 11716 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Not sure about the NSW comment 3BM. After Schofield got off on Up N Rolling nothing surprises me anymore. |
||
linghi11
Champion Joined: 18 Apr 2013 Status: Offline Points: 7452 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Payne probably laid it. It’s not a great ride but I’ve seen many worse which didn’t attract any questions. |
||
to the victor
|
||
3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
|
|
Both incompetent but chalk and cheese rides imo Judge. Egan had zero excuse for tailing his mount out, that was indefensible.
But I was really talking about appeals. When NSW stewards decide to take action charges generally stick. Then again I've never read anything as wet behind the ears as the rubbish offered by Gleeson as justification for their doubt. As a lawyer he knew there was only one question to be answered. Did Egan give the horse every chance to win? In tailing it out early imo there was only one possible answer given the form and betting. Slow news day if we're still discussing this though.
|
||
hatch
Champion Joined: 14 Oct 2008 Status: Offline Points: 6360 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
You have it wrong , most of you would not be capable of riding a horse around the parade ring before the race when the horse is being led . Egan never interfered with the horses head any part of the race ,he did not pull it back in the early stages ,he had it flat out for the last 500 meters . On the day the horse was not good enough .
|
||
Sunline
Champion Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 22302 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
What you fail to understand is that the ability to sit on a horse's back has nothing to do with the ability to understand how to ride a race tactically. It's like suggesting someone who is a good trainer must be a good punter. They are completely different skills. One is a physical one, the other a mental one.
I cold be the worst rider of a horse - in fact I could have never sat on one's back - and I could still be better at strategising how to ride a race.
|
||
Sunline...simply supreme
|
||
3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Lol. So in what world do racehorses run under their own steam Hatch? Or are you suggesting that jockeys don't rate horses, they simply sit and steer? Pretty low opinion you must have of them if that's the case. Egan was on the best horse by a margin, he had no reason whatsoever to be tailed out 3 lengths behind the second last horse over 1000m. Odd that you ignore that, even odder that Gleeson didn't appear to take any account of it.
|
||
Sunline
Champion Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 22302 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Especially when you consider the early speed it showed it had at its previous first up 1000m race. Noted it showed that speed under no urging whatsoever. The position it found itself in was completely by jockey design.
|
||
Sunline...simply supreme
|
||
hatch
Champion Joined: 14 Oct 2008 Status: Offline Points: 6360 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Luck in the running is a big thing , a jockey has to make choices in a race, spur of the moment choices , we are different we can see what happened ,we have hindsight , big difference ,always remember we have hindsight . With hindsight we still get it wrong. One day a rider rode for me ,coming to the straight she could not get a run and pulled out ,the rider that was blocking her passage pulled out and a runner came from behind and won, the rider on mine said she should have won ,I stuffed it ,I said no you didn't you did not know the rider blocking you was going to pull out.
|
||
3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
We acknowledge all that Hatch.
|
||
Speediskey
Champion Joined: 19 Feb 2014 Status: Offline Points: 4116 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
What’s that got to do with this ride? Where the jockey made a ‘split second’ decision that lasted for about 25 seconds to give it no hope three lengths off the 2nd last horse? |
||
hatch
Champion Joined: 14 Oct 2008 Status: Offline Points: 6360 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I think he would of had to urge him along to get closer early, I think Payne would not have been happy with that. He lets his horses being comfortable early.
|
||
3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
You haven't watched the race then Hatch? That puts you almost in the same league as Gleeson et al who appear to have watched it through rose coloured glasses with one eye shut and the other crossed.
|
||
hatch
Champion Joined: 14 Oct 2008 Status: Offline Points: 6360 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Yes, I watched the race several times.
|
||
3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Doesn't appear so from your comment regarding the need for Egan to urge Zizzis along early.
There's a world of difference between easing a horse and taking a trail and allowing it to become detached a long way off the second last horse, esp over a kilometre on a tight track. And you don't need to have ridden a racehorse to know that. |
||
hatch
Champion Joined: 14 Oct 2008 Status: Offline Points: 6360 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I think he let it run comfortably from the start, NOT eased ,it was going as quick as it wanted to from the start .
|
||
3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Ah I see. So it was another case of the horse mysteriously controlling the jockey?
I recall a similar (but different) situation way back when I shared ownership in a horse. Trainer and jockey got done for failing to let a horse run on its merits. Horse charged down the outside late and would have won easily if let go. As he was also our trainer we got the full sorry story.
|
||
Sneck
Champion Joined: 16 Feb 2013 Location: Payout Queue Status: Offline Points: 7555 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
It's unreasonable to allow a horse to be detached from the field in these circumstances.
Asking the horse to remain competitive by maintain a reasonable position is the only acceptable course of action. If it's unacceptable to ask the horse to compete it shouldn't be in the race. |
||
Breeding Above All
Champion Joined: 14 Jan 2013 Status: Offline Points: 715 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I always am very amused when professionals like footballers and jockeys etc are made out to be the absolute experts in their field for tactics and knowledge etc.. most are extremely uneducated in every sense of the word and are just ‘talented’.
If people think Jockeys are all experts and know better than astute judges who watch it and study the game, you are very very deceived.. |
||
hatch
Champion Joined: 14 Oct 2008 Status: Offline Points: 6360 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
|
||
Sunline
Champion Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 22302 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Finally someone with some common sense, and not a 'horse person' who thinks anyone that hasn't ridden 100 winners can't possibly comment on the riding tactics of a jockey.
|
||
Sunline...simply supreme
|
||
3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Odd question. Jockeys are notoriously poor judges of form overall but good ones are able to provide a solid guide as to how a horse ran AFTER a race. The REAL question in the Zizzis case is what would Patrick have said about the ride had it been an important race with big $$$ attached. The other unanswered question is what instructions did he give to Egan? Only limited experience of racing is required to arrive at the most likely answer both questions.
|
||
hatch
Champion Joined: 14 Oct 2008 Status: Offline Points: 6360 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
|
|
Egan got the ride of the day on Widgee Turf yesterday , he rode it like Payne likes them ridden , quietly , if you don't like them ridden like that, don't back them and don't winge.
|
||
Sneck
Champion Joined: 16 Feb 2013 Location: Payout Queue Status: Offline Points: 7555 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
|
|
I repeat, certain tactics are unacceptable.
|
||
hatch
Champion Joined: 14 Oct 2008 Status: Offline Points: 6360 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
He was not to far away to make the ground ,just on the day he could not do it ,he just beat the ones he was close to on the turn ,maybe the winner is a good horse.
|
||
3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
An admission that Egan was riding to bullgelati instructions from the trainer perhaps? Frankly I don't care how Patrick likes his horses ridden, I want them ridden according to the rules - ie given a chance of winning, esp when they are rightfully short-priced favs. Zizzis led at its first run when he wanted it to win and then wasn't far off them at his second start, again when he wanted her to win a $200K race.
|
||
Sunline
Champion Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 22302 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Patrick likes them tailed off and given no hope? My a$$. The bloke was a great jockey. He's not that dumb.
|
||
Sunline...simply supreme
|
||
hatch
Champion Joined: 14 Oct 2008 Status: Offline Points: 6360 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
ha ,ha ,I think he likes them to win all the time ,his strike rate would be good , the horse was never in a hopeless position ,he keeps putting Egan on he must have been happy with the ride.
|
||
Post Reply | Page <123> |
Tweet |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |