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Zizzis |
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Shawy38
Champion Joined: 13 Jun 2015 Status: Offline Points: 17411 |
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Posted: 12 Mar 2018 at 12:49pm |
Not a noted 2yo stable, but the 2yos from the Payne stable this year are flying.
That was an ultra impressive win. |
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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Excellent. Big strong filly. Nomothaj looked some risk at the 1200m, even more so on looks today.
Edited by Gay3 - 12 Mar 2018 at 1:12pm |
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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Can't find the thread about the ride but it was inevitable that Egan would be charged if stewards did their job. Seems unlikely to me that he rode it that way off is own bat.
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hatch
Champion Joined: 14 Oct 2008 Status: Offline Points: 6360 |
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I think nothing wrong with the ride , a good ride, the horse was not good enough on the day , he should not get suspended for that.
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Shawy38
Champion Joined: 13 Jun 2015 Status: Offline Points: 17411 |
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The ride was corrupt. Should get 6 weeks |
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correctweight
Champion Joined: 20 May 2010 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 2560 |
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Just to be clear i wasnt on thos horse. But from the replay showed no urgency or vogour at all. Had ot held together until 75m from the post after trailling the field by lengths for most of the race. |
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Long Row
Champion Joined: 05 Jan 2017 Status: Offline Points: 455 |
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I backed it, remember scratching my head as to why they were letting me on at such a good price considering the exposed form.
The ride gave the answer.
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Sneck
Champion Joined: 16 Feb 2013 Location: Payout Queue Status: Offline Points: 7555 |
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Shawy38
Champion Joined: 13 Jun 2015 Status: Offline Points: 17411 |
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I don’t believe it
RAD board dismiss the charge from RV stewards against Billy Egan for his ride on Zizzis at Mornington @Racing |
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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Reasons? RV needs to appeal if possible. If that stands then stewards might as well turn a blind eye to every suspect ride from now on. Mind you they're already good at that
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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Seems the RAD Board loves him:
My guess is that he rode to instructions. The ride was obvious, but no moreso than the flucs.
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hatch
Champion Joined: 14 Oct 2008 Status: Offline Points: 6360 |
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Justice has been done , congratulations to the RAD Board ,there was nothing wrong with the ride , the Stewards should be looked at for their decision to charge him .
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Sneck
Champion Joined: 16 Feb 2013 Location: Payout Queue Status: Offline Points: 7555 |
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There's no accountability in racing.
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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After reading this load of tosh (below) the obvious conclusion is that punters are pizzing into a gale if they expect jockey rides to be scrutinised properly in future. As it is the rule is only used in the most egregious cases. This decision is a bloody disgrace imo and a threat to stewards authority and racing integrity itself if allowed to continue. Suffice to say that I'm comfortably satisfied that these guys have no idea.
Read on if you enjoy weasel-worded bullgelati. Love the Nick Hall cameo. Ironic to say the least. https://www.racing.com/news/2018-05-31/egan-cleared-over-zizzis-ride Egan cleared over Zizzis rideRacing Victoria stewards' attempt to have jockey Billy Egan penalised for his ride on Zizzis at Mornington in April has been thrown out by the Racing Appeals and Disciplinary Board. Egan was charged with what steward Corie Waller described as a serious breach of AR135b, which relates to a jockey failing to take all reasonable and permissible measures throughout a race to ensure their mount is given full opportunity to win or obtain the best possible position. Egan finished second on the Patrick Payne-trained Zizzis, who started a $2.20 favourite at Mornington on April 16. Zizzis was previously unbeaten, with a debut win at Bendigo followed by victory in a $200,000 Magic Millions race at Morphettville on Adelaide Cup Day. And while conceding Egan's ride was not the most pleasant to watch, Judge John Bowman and his fellow RAD Board panel members Darren McGee and Christopher Fox could not be satisfied that the charge could be sustained. "We say at the outset that if the race was viewed as a whole, we can understand how there might be some query of your ride on such a well-fancied horse and we bear that in mind," Bowman said. "Your overall ride and apparent lack of vigour might cause some punters to voice their disapproval even though Zizzis ran second. "However, the whole race is not the subject of this charge, the stewards charge is specifically confined to three sections of the race, which could be described; immediately after the start, between the 600m and 400m, and from the 400m to the 250m. "We viewed a number of videos of the Mornington race from various angles and from her previous wins, when the horse raced in a markedly different fashion, however, in those races she had drawn well and had a comparably long run in whereas Mornington she drew eight of eight, the course turns after about 150m, there is not an overly long straight section after that and then another tight home turn. "Mr Payne as the trainer and an ex jockey had no criticism of the ride considering the circumstances, particularly given the barrier draw, the horse was in his belief a little disappointing but didn't attribute the fault to your ride. "We have to be comfortably satisfied that the charge is being made out. "The test is not for comparison to the perfect ride or not one of the stewards substituting a view as to how the horse should or otherwise been ridden. "The question is whether we are comfortably satisfied in three separate sections of the race Zizzis was not given full opportunity to win or best possible placed. "We could not be comfortably satisfied on the basis of the evidence before us in relation to those three sections of the race in question so the charge is dismissed. "We will repeat our observations that you should be careful that your rides leave no room for doubt as to giving horses every possible chance and even allowing for your style of riding, you remember that those on the other side of the fence may see things differently." The RV stewards had concern with Egan's actions in three sections of the race; arguing that he failed to make a sufficient attempt to remain with the bulk of the field, that between the 600m and 400m he did not make sufficient attempts to improve his position and then from the 400m to the 250m he remained on the back of Persuader, where he should have made an attempt to improve in to the race. "We believe the ride is so far below what is expected from a rider of your experience," Waller said. "The owners of the horse and the public were denied a chance for the horse to achieve the best possible position and such actions have the potential to erode public confidence in the racing industry." Egan argued from barrier eight he was not in a position to work forward and settle midfield, as there was a chance he could have been posted wide, given there is a short run in to the first turn at Mornington from the 1000-metre start. He also stated that he didn't elect to bustle his filly in the early stages as he was of the opinion the field would come back to him and there was no need to be urgent. Jockey Nick Hall gave evidence in support of Egan's ride and said he would have ridden the filly the same given the circumstances. Payne also argued that he had no issue with the ride. |
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Shawy38
Champion Joined: 13 Jun 2015 Status: Offline Points: 17411 |
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Corruption at its finest.
I hope the Stewards take this to VCAT. |
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Sneck
Champion Joined: 16 Feb 2013 Location: Payout Queue Status: Offline Points: 7555 |
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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Wouldn't say corrupt but naive, completely inept and certainly ignorant of racing practices and the reason the rule exists. Or perhaps Gleeson is simply acknowledging what we all know occurs from time to time?
Just picking out a few of more inane comments: Your overall ride and apparent lack of vigour might cause some punters to voice their disapproval even though Zizzis ran second. Are they serious? Apparently Gleeson was (trying to be). Says a lot for his knowledge of betting, which incidentally barely gets a mention. Mr Payne as the trainer and an ex jockey had no criticism of the ride considering the circumstances, particularly given the barrier draw, the horse was in his belief a little disappointing but didn't attribute the fault to your ride. That anyone would place any store in the trainer's comment regarding the ride is laughable in the extreme. Or as some would rightly suggest - "well he would say that wouldn't he". Personally I doubt that Egan took it on himself to ride like that but that's the cynic in me. "We will repeat our observations that you should be careful that your rides leave no room for doubt as to giving horses every possible chance and even allowing for your style of riding, you remember that those on the other side of the fence may see things differently." As the saying goes - no gelati Sherlock! Or to put the above in words from the other side of the fence - "please son, do try to make it less obvious so we can sit back in our comfortable chairs and not be bothered by such trifles in future - if it's okay with you, Patrick and "ride 'em out the back" Nick of course. " What a pity Micaleff only sends up politics because there's enough in this small "judgement" for some real satire.
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hatch
Champion Joined: 14 Oct 2008 Status: Offline Points: 6360 |
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He never interfered with his mouth , wasn't far away on the home turn , was flat out before the corner to the winning post with a clear run throughout , the ride was good,i cant see how any of you can think otherwise.
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Shawy38
Champion Joined: 13 Jun 2015 Status: Offline Points: 17411 |
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Take the rose coloured glasses off. The ride stinks. |
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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Egan's vigour in the straight was questionable but he'd already failed to give the horse it's chance earlier. Tailed off mid race - 3 lengths off the second last in a field he would have smacked had it been a big money or stakes race - over 1000m at Mornington against far lesser horses, after blowing in the market. Still, as Gleeson suggested : 'stop whinging all you mugs who backed him, he did make an effort to get second late'.
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hatch
Champion Joined: 14 Oct 2008 Status: Offline Points: 6360 |
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The horse in the straight appeared to be doing its best, I think it is questionable if it would have done better had it been hard ridden ,I think the stewards charging the jockey should be very questionable. Are there some jockeys reading this who think the ride was okay.
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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Nick Hall said he would have ridden the horse the same and Justice Gleeson apparently thought that was significant, so everything's okay Hatch. Lol. Another judge might well have said: good thing you're retired then eh Mr Hall.
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rusty nails
Champion Joined: 20 Mar 2013 Location: Sydney Status: Offline Points: 11400 |
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By all means defend his actions when they jumped, or his decision not to get going earlier. Those were the actions that ensured the horse couldn't win. How he rode the horse down the straight is irrelevant,as the horse wasn't a winning chance when he commenced his run. IMHO (disclosure: I did back it, so maybe I have a jaundiced view) |
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MJB
Champion Joined: 30 Nov 2017 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 1601 |
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What's Nick Hall got to do with this? Why would they seek his opinion? Of course he's going to stick up for his mate.
With this particular ride in my opinion it looked like he never ever had any intention of wanting to win the race. But he disguised it well enough to get off. I reckon he's guilty. Was there any suspicious betting patterns? Usually that's the giveaway. |
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hatch
Champion Joined: 14 Oct 2008 Status: Offline Points: 6360 |
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Riders are in trouble from punters and critics , the punters and critics don't know enough about riding , they are wrong in their ideas .Corie Waller and his stewards were also wrong in charging Egan, it was good to see justice was done.
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Sneck
Champion Joined: 16 Feb 2013 Location: Payout Queue Status: Offline Points: 7555 |
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Regardless I don't consider you a good faith actor you're salty about the forums opinion on Michelle Payne and have become a troll in retaliation. |
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hatch
Champion Joined: 14 Oct 2008 Status: Offline Points: 6360 |
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I think you are very wrong Sneck , professional gamblers know more about tactics than jockeys ,rubbish .
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Prince of Penzance
Champion Joined: 17 Jan 2018 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 1938 |
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What rubbish. |
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hatch
Champion Joined: 14 Oct 2008 Status: Offline Points: 6360 |
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What most punters,critics, professionals ,people that think they know and know very little , all forget is they have the great advantage of hindsight , the jockey has to make his or her decision on the spot . There is a massive difference.
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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Hatch - along with the RAD Board in this case - has trouble acknowledging the obvious. Racing history is littered with horses being given runs by jockeys, mostly under instruction.
Irrespective, the simple test for this race is - would Egan have ridden it the same (tailed off ) and would Payne have been so "accommodating" had it been a high prizemoney or Group race? There's more chance of a unicorn winning this year's Cup.
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