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Zeljko Ranogajec

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    Posted: 12 Feb 2012 at 6:31pm
Read this elsewhere does anyone have this article and if so could they please post it here for a read?





I've got the article in print format. (Weekend AFR is $3 and not a bad read).

Earned $44 million over 3.5 years from an initial outlay of $200,000 betting on US tracks.

He stated this in court (trying to get back $8.5 million in rebates off a bookie).

Of $52 million profit, $44 million was earned in rebates. The US Race clubs proceeded to blackball the bookie's company through which the rebates were paid.

Article mentions the Tasmanian Tote (TT) disaster as previously reported on this forum i.e. In spite of nearly $1 billion in turnover in 3 years, made only $1.5 million last year. Tatts paid $103 million for TT when it became a basket case.

A Macquaries Equity report said that the average rebate was 10.5% to "punters like Ranogajec". Dick McIlwain stated "The ordinary punter is subsidising these guys".

Article starts on page 44 if anyone buys the AFR. Well worth a read
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oddsonbet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2012 at 8:12pm
Of $52 million profit, $44 million was earned in rebates wow



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Quezacotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2012 at 8:24pm
There's an old saying in gambling...
" to make millions on the punt, you need to start with millions "

An apt paraphrase for our beloved Z.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oddsonbet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2012 at 8:25pm
He started with nothing and made millions so there goes that saying 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2012 at 8:28pm
LAUNDRY


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skinny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2012 at 8:29pm
Djebel you really dont know much about anything do you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oddsonbet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2012 at 8:30pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

LAUNDRY


yes you finally make sense and i agree Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2012 at 8:45pm
Originally posted by skinny skinny wrote:

Djebel you really dont know much about anything do you.


Why dont you tell us the story ?


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Quezacotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2012 at 8:49pm
Originally posted by oddsonbet oddsonbet wrote:

He started with nothing and made millions so there goes that saying 



Not quite Mr punting extraordinaire...

Before he came into or was even interested in the gee gee's..he had jagged a rather large KENO jackpot, and was a very successful black jack player.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max manewer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2012 at 8:53pm
My understanding is his name was fished out of the same bowl of alphabet soup as Quetzacotl's. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oddsonbet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2012 at 8:56pm
Originally posted by Quezacotl Quezacotl wrote:

Originally posted by oddsonbet oddsonbet wrote:

He started with nothing and made millions so there goes that saying 



Not quite Mr punting extraordinaire...

Before he came into or was even interested in the gee gee's..he had jagged a rather large KENO jackpot, and was a very successful black jack player.




Your wrong he played horse before he played Keno



The relative, from the side of his late father, Mirko, claims he had started to work part-time at Wrest Point while studying for a commerce/law degree.

The relative says he met his wife and "first love", Shelley Wilson, while she was also working there.

But the more successful he became at blackjack, the more his studies started to take a back seat.

His skills as a blackjack player saw him feared by casinos around the world. His business was "politely declined" first at Wrest Point, and Queensland's Jupiters Casino in the mid-1980s. But he did not give up playing the casinos, and moved to greener pastures overseas.

The relative from his father's side recalls him coming home after being too successful on the blackjack tables in the US: "He was in Chicago, I think. They stopped him, and he had to come back."

He increasingly turned his attention to horse racing, as well as other games such as Keno. He once won a then-world record $7.5 million Keno jackpot at Sydney's North Ryde RSL Club in 1994.
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Originally posted by max manewer max manewer wrote:

My understanding is his name was fished out of the same bowl of alphabet soup as Quetzacotl's. LOL


ROFL...

I don't even try an pronounce those eastern block names..fair dinkum they're worse then those 45 letter indian/Lankan one namers..
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Thanks for confirming my statement oddson..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oddsonbet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2012 at 9:02pm
Originally posted by Quezacotl Quezacotl wrote:

There's an old saying in gambling...
" to make millions on the punt, you need to start with millions "

An apt paraphrase for our beloved Z.


Your a Donk Quezacotl you said the above and i showed you this you really a a dill

The relative, from the side of his late father, Mirko, claims he had started to work part-time at Wrest Point while studying for a commerce/law degree.

The relative says he met his wife and "first love", Shelley Wilson, while she was also working there.

But the more successful he became at blackjack, the more his studies started to take a back seat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2012 at 3:18pm


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max manewer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2012 at 3:36pm
The real losers are not the mugs sitting in the TAB "guessing", as Dick Mc Ilwain makes out, it is the skilled punters who were winners, or maybe losing marginally, but have been attrited by a non-level playing field of heavy rebates. They have been reduced to the mug standard in a lot of cases. Skilled players would never accept tote odds of $4 about a horse the bookies were offering $5, but the uninformed betting blind would, except now they might get $4.50, though overall they would be no better or worse off, because they would also place bets on horses whose odds had been reduced by rebate players.Another example of deregulation screwing things up. Dick was right about the pollies being dimwits, or maybe that is kind.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luva Punt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2012 at 6:34pm
Originally posted by max manewer max manewer wrote:

The real losers are not the mugs sitting in the TAB "guessing", as Dick Mc Ilwain makes out, it is the skilled punters who were winners, or maybe losing marginally, but have been attrited by a non-level playing field of heavy rebates. They have been reduced to the mug standard in a lot of cases. Skilled players would never accept tote odds of $4 about a horse the bookies were offering $5, but the uninformed betting blind would, except now they might get $4.50, though overall they would be no better or worse off, because they would also place bets on horses whose odds had been reduced by rebate players.Another example of deregulation screwing things up. Dick was right about the pollies being dimwits, or maybe that is kind.


Does anyone else think that these rebates should be 100% counted as income, and taxable, whether they are paid to Zeljko or a Corporate Bookmaker?

This is a rebate on all losing bets, which in effect is a cash rebate that no other punters in the marketplace receive.

It has no relevance to the winning bets placed, and is clearly an income stream paid for losing bets that all ordinary punters do not receive.

Medicare rebates are part of your income.  All other rebates are income for tax purposes, so surely a cash rebate paid from one company to another for doing business should be classed as an income stream, and as such, taxable ??.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote subastral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2012 at 6:39pm
Originally posted by Luva Punt Luva Punt wrote:

Originally posted by max manewer max manewer wrote:

The real losers are not the mugs sitting in the TAB "guessing", as Dick Mc Ilwain makes out, it is the skilled punters who were winners, or maybe losing marginally, but have been attrited by a non-level playing field of heavy rebates. They have been reduced to the mug standard in a lot of cases. Skilled players would never accept tote odds of $4 about a horse the bookies were offering $5, but the uninformed betting blind would, except now they might get $4.50, though overall they would be no better or worse off, because they would also place bets on horses whose odds had been reduced by rebate players.Another example of deregulation screwing things up. Dick was right about the pollies being dimwits, or maybe that is kind.


Does anyone else think that these rebates should be 100% counted as income, and taxable, whether they are paid to Zeljko or a Corporate Bookmaker?

This is a rebate on all losing bets, which in effect is a cash rebate that no other punters in the marketplace receive.

It has no relevance to the winning bets placed, and is clearly an income stream paid for losing bets that all ordinary punters do not receive.

Medicare rebates are part of your income.  All other rebates are income for tax purposes, so surely a cash rebate paid from one company to another for doing business should be classed as an income stream, and as such, taxable ??.
 
No, they aren't mate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baghdad Bob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2012 at 7:00pm
LuvaPunt wrote...
"This is a rebate on all losing bets, which in effect is a cash rebate that no other punters in the marketplace receive."
 
Not quite correct, the rebates are given on turnover, that is, on both losing and winning bets.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luva Punt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2012 at 7:52pm
Originally posted by Baghdad Bob Baghdad Bob wrote:

LuvaPunt wrote...
"This is a rebate on all losing bets, which in effect is a cash rebate that no other punters in the marketplace receive."
 
Not quite correct, the rebates are given on turnover, that is, on both losing and winning bets.



Ok BB,

So the rebates are paid on turnover.  The rebate is not a part of the wager. 
It is an additional payment for placing a bet.

Is this not a form of income paid as a commission?

What is it if it is not income?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Quezacotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2012 at 8:05pm
Correct me if Im wrong on this, but some of these rebates could be actually being paid out to tote owned bookmakers..example ..TAB pays out big kickbacks to Luxbet, Luxbet owned by Tabcorp..just giving themselves kickbacks aren't they..?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lotto7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2012 at 10:16am
Surely the rebates would not apply to Black Caviar. Back her at $1.04 and receive $1.14? Load up forever if that was the case.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Ear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2012 at 2:02pm
Even better on the place
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote J.M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2012 at 2:40pm
If he is business is professional punting than all income would be assessable winnings and rebates
of course he would be able to claim deductions for his losses and other costs
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HarmersHaven Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2012 at 9:27pm
Originally posted by lotto7 lotto7 wrote:

Surely the rebates would not apply to Black Caviar. Back her at $1.04 and receive $1.14? Load up forever if that was the case.


Long-time reader, first-time poster.

Betting on the Asian Exchanges allows you to do just this.

Your $5 win ticket can cost anywhere between $3.80 and $4.50 (10% to 24% discount in real terms) so backing BC becomes an option when you're in effect getting  $1.15/$1.20ish win and place. In actuality, tickets are available all the way up to face value ($5), but the majority of trading is done between the margins quoted earlier.

God Bless them.
Without data, you're just another person with an opinion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max manewer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2012 at 10:05pm
Originally posted by HarmersHaven HarmersHaven wrote:

Originally posted by lotto7 lotto7 wrote:

Surely the rebates would not apply to Black Caviar. Back her at $1.04 and receive $1.14? Load up forever if that was the case.


Long-time reader, first-time poster.

Betting on the Asian Exchanges allows you to do just this.

Your $5 win ticket can cost anywhere between $3.80 and $4.50 (10% to 24% discount in real terms) so backing BC becomes an option when you're in effect getting  $1.15/$1.20ish win and place. In actuality, tickets are available all the way up to face value ($5), but the majority of trading is done between the margins quoted earlier.

God Bless them.
Asian exchanges ? who are they ? I have never heard of this before.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Quezacotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2012 at 10:29pm
Surely at some point there will be competing betting exchanges everywhere .. If they allow licences to one..(Betfair)..then surely they have to allow competitors a licence, to eliminate any monopoly of the punting turnover in that area.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MannyG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2012 at 10:38pm
Betdaq has been around for a while. Bugger all liquidity though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Muss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 7:16pm
Keyboard Warrior
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 7:28pm
Originally posted by Muss Muss wrote:

https://www.smh.com.au/national/meet-the-joker-the-australian-who-is-the-biggest-gambler-in-the-world-20180515-p4zfhi.html



Shows what little chance the average punter has.   Been happening for generations.   I remember the on course hi rollers rooms, only too well.
   Discount on turnover.
Will only get worse as Governments eye the prizemoney and wealth in the Industry.    
I can see a tobacco type tax , ravaging the gambling dollar .   It has started already in some States.



























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