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Winx

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acacia alba View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2018 at 8:13pm
There is always going to be knockers, no matter what a horse does.    Always looking for a reason not to just sit back and enjoy it while it lasts.  They must have a sad life .Cry
But, of course, if they owned a horse like Winx they would be the first to spruke her as a world champ . LOL
animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2018 at 8:13pm
He only met 22 individual horses in his OS G1 wins.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2018 at 8:16pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

He beat 2 group 1 winner when he ran 6th in the Caulfield Guineas, He beat 10 more when he won his first Cox Plate, He beat Onemorenomore when he ran second in the Ming Dynasty. That is 13 after 5 starts.



He beat 6 more when he ran 2nd in the 1600m handicap at Flemington.

19 after 6 starts.



Naughty naughty. That's NOT the measure
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2018 at 8:27pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2018 at 8:28pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

He beat 2 group 1 winner when he ran 6th in the Caulfield Guineas, He beat 10 more when he won his first Cox Plate, He beat Onemorenomore when he ran second in the Ming Dynasty. That is 13 after 5 starts.



He beat 6 more when he ran 2nd in the 1600m handicap at Flemington.

19 after 6 starts.



He beat 7 more newcomers in his first start back the following spring.

26 from 7 starts.


6 more at following start, 32 from 8 starts.

2 more at following start, 34 from 9

4 more in his second Plate, 38 from 10

5 more next start, 43 from 11.

9 more when he ran 3rd in the Cup,  52 from `12

2 more at his 3rd run in Europe, 54 from 15

3 more at his 4th run in Europe, 57 from 16

3 more at his next, 60 from 17

10 more when 4th in the Arc, 70 from 18.

4 more at his next run, 74 from 19.

at least 2 more in his Breeders Cup Classic 6th, 76 from 20 starts.

5 more at Meydan, 81 from 21.

2 more at his final start.

I have him beating 83 individual group 1 winners throughout his career.




reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2018 at 8:29pm
Originally posted by 3blindmice 3blindmice wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

He beat 2 group 1 winner when he ran 6th in the Caulfield Guineas, He beat 10 more when he won his first Cox Plate, He beat Onemorenomore when he ran second in the Ming Dynasty. That is 13 after 5 starts.



He beat 6 more when he ran 2nd in the 1600m handicap at Flemington.

19 after 6 starts.



Naughty naughty. That's NOT the measure

That is clearly the measure Coolmore are using and there can be no denying, he did beat them.


reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2018 at 8:40pm
Ok so what is the final figurem..

How many individual Group 1 winners did So You Think beat in his career.
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2018 at 8:40pm
Not at all. At some stage even strugglers will have beaten a few G1 winners home. 

The measure is defeating individual G1 winners while winning the G1 himself. 

The only question is were they G1 winners when he beat them? 

He racked up 12 (I think) in his very first G1 here so it's possible.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2018 at 8:49pm
Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

Ok so what is the final figurem..

How many individual Group 1 winners did So You Think beat in his career.


I put him down for actually beating home 83 individual group 1 winners.

reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2018 at 8:56pm
Just in case there is any conjecture, I am not saying So You Think is better or worse than Winx, it was wonderful to see him thoroughly tested in so many differing conditions.

reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2018 at 8:59pm
Dejebel how did you get 83? Did he beat 83 individual Group 1 winners whilst winning the races at the same time or did he for example place in a race and a Group 1 winner finish behind him. How have you done the interpretation?

I ask because Winx has beaten between 53 and 56 individual Group 1 winners...So You Think's figure seems quite high especialy how many consider Winx to be better then So You Think and also Winx has had more starts (more starts to beat more G1 winners)
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2018 at 9:01pm
Like to see some splits from her today , last 600 and 400 most interesting, she is so deceptive in flight and we are very lucky to have seen something a little out of the ordinary.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horlicks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2018 at 9:06pm
Last 600 34.81

200 splits  600 to 400 11.68

                  400 to 200 11.23
                 
                  200 to fin.  11.91
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2018 at 9:38pm
Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

Dejebel how did you get 83? Did he beat 83 individual Group 1 winners whilst winning the races at the same time or did he for example place in a race and a Group 1 winner finish behind him. How have you done the interpretation?

I ask because Winx has beaten between 53 and 56 individual Group 1 winners...So You Think's figure seems quite high especialy how many consider Winx to be better then So You Think and also Winx has had more starts (more starts to beat more G1 winners)


I included any group 1 winner who finished behind him no matter where he finished.

It is a little more difficult for Winx to rack up the individual beating because there is a finite number she can beat. When she runs in and wins the George Ryder it is highly unlikely she will be beating any new group 1 winners. As with today she beat no new group 1 winners.



reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2018 at 9:45pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

Dejebel how did you get 83? Did he beat 83 individual Group 1 winners whilst winning the races at the same time or did he for example place in a race and a Group 1 winner finish behind him. How have you done the interpretation?

I ask because Winx has beaten between 53 and 56 individual Group 1 winners...So You Think's figure seems quite high especialy how many consider Winx to be better then So You Think and also Winx has had more starts (more starts to beat more G1 winners)


I included any group 1 winner who finished behind him no matter where he finished.

It is a little more difficult for Winx to rack up the individual beating because there is a finite number she can beat. When she runs in and wins the George Ryder it is highly unlikely she will be beating any new group 1 winners. As with today she beat no new group 1 winners.





I wonder where Coolmore got the figure of 75 from?
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2018 at 9:53pm
It does say "more than 75"
reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Prince of Penzance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2018 at 9:57pm
Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

Originally posted by 3blindmice 3blindmice wrote:

Why on earth would you Coolmore say "defeating OVER 75 individual G1 winners"? 

With 10 G1s that works out to >7.5 G1 winners in every race he won.  

Most of those must have been in Australia because the total number who contested his 5 OS G1 wins is 27 and some of those would be duplicates

Great horse in any case.


Can anyone find out how many Group 1 winners he beat? Also I checked with Andrew Hawkins and he said the figure for 56 in regards to Winx is wrong....he said the figure is 53


Both wrong. It’s 52
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2018 at 9:59pm
List them so we can see. For both horses.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2018 at 10:09pm
Originally posted by horlicks horlicks wrote:

Last 600 34.81

200 splits  600 to 400 11.68

                  400 to 200 11.23
                  
                  200 to fin.  11.91

Thank you Horlick, much appreciated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2018 at 10:14pm
Originally posted by 3blindmice 3blindmice wrote:

List them so we can see. For both horses.


Yep agree..can anyone do this request. It will be interesting to see.
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scamanda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2018 at 10:16pm
Originally posted by Prince of Penzance Prince of Penzance wrote:

Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

Originally posted by 3blindmice 3blindmice wrote:

Why on earth would you Coolmore say "defeating OVER 75 individual G1 winners"? 

With 10 G1s that works out to >7.5 G1 winners in every race he won.  

Most of those must have been in Australia because the total number who contested his 5 OS G1 wins is 27 and some of those would be duplicates

Great horse in any case.


Can anyone find out how many Group 1 winners he beat? Also I checked with Andrew Hawkins and he said the figure for 56 in regards to Winx is wrong....he said the figure is 53


Both wrong. It’s 52

Winx has beaten.

EARTHQUAKE
HAURAKI
HAMPTON COURT
FAMOUS SEAMUS (NZ)
LUCIA VALENTEARTHQUAKE
INA (NZ)
CRITERION (NZ)
HIGHLAND REEL (IRE)
PORNICHET (FR)
HARTNELL (GB)
FAWKNER
GAILO CHOP (FR)
PREFERMENT (NZ)
HAPPY TRAILS
MOURINHO
KERMADEC (NZ)
COMPLACENT
MAGIC HURRICANE (IRE)
WHO SHOT THEBARMAN (NZ)
GUST OF WIND (NZ)
GRAND MARSHAL (GB)
MONGOLIAN KHAN
PRESS STATEMENT
FIRST SEAL
HAPPY CLAPPER
TURN ME LOOSE (NZ)
HUCKLEBUCK
AZKADELLIA (NZ)
STRATUM STAR
REBEL DANE
IT'S SOMEWHAT (USA)
BLACK HEART BART
YANKEE ROSE
VADAMOS (FR)
AWESOME ROCK
LASQUETI SPIRIT
LE ROMAIN
CHAUTAUQUA
SENSE OF OCCASION
THE UNITED STATES (IRE)
FOXPLAY
INFERENCE
VENTURA STORM (IRE)
HUMIDOR (NZ)
PRIZED ICON

Add to that if you need to.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scamanda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2018 at 10:19pm
Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

Originally posted by 3blindmice 3blindmice wrote:

List them so we can see. For both horses.


Yep agree..can anyone do this request. It will be interesting to see.

Seeing you were the one to mention it Jamal, maybe you can list the individual Grp 1 winners that SYT beat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Straight Connector Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2018 at 10:25pm
Heaven's Above.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scamanda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2018 at 10:29pm
Originally posted by scamanda scamanda wrote:

Originally posted by Prince of Penzance Prince of Penzance wrote:

Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

Originally posted by 3blindmice 3blindmice wrote:

 


Can anyone find out how many Group 1 winners he beat? Also I checked with Andrew Hawkins and he said the figure for 56 in regards to Winx is wrong....he said the figure is 53


Both wrong. It’s 52

Winx has beaten.

EARTHQUAKE
HAURAKI
HAMPTON COURT
FAMOUS SEAMUS (NZ)
LUCIA VALENTEINA (NZ)
CRITERION (NZ)
HIGHLAND REEL (IRE)
PORNICHET (FR)
HARTNELL (GB)
FAWKNER
GAILO CHOP (FR)
PREFERMENT (NZ)
HAPPY TRAILS
MOURINHO
KERMADEC (NZ)
COMPLACENT
MAGIC HURRICANE (IRE)
WHO SHOT THEBARMAN (NZ)
GUST OF WIND (NZ)
GRAND MARSHAL (GB)
MONGOLIAN KHAN
PRESS STATEMENT
FIRST SEAL
HAPPY CLAPPER
TURN ME LOOSE (NZ)
HUCKLEBUCK
AZKADELLIA (NZ)
STRATUM STAR
REBEL DANE
IT'S SOMEWHAT (USA)
BLACK HEART BART
YANKEE ROSE
VADAMOS (FR)
AWESOME ROCK
LASQUETI SPIRIT
LE ROMAIN
CHAUTAUQUA
SENSE OF OCCASION
THE UNITED STATES (IRE)
FOXPLAY
INFERENCE
VENTURA STORM (IRE)
HUMIDOR (NZ)
PRIZED ICON
HEAVENS ABOVE

Add to that if you need to.
I started with nothing and still have most of it left
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2018 at 10:37pm
My internet is slow...can anyone assist with the list for SYT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2018 at 10:50pm
I'll do it tomorrow IF Mitch Marsh gets 100 off less than 50 balls.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2018 at 10:53pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

I'll do it tomorrow IF Mitch Marsh gets 100 off less than 50 balls.


Sounds like a no to me
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2018 at 10:55pm
He still has 40 balls to get the runs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2018 at 10:59pm
Originally posted by scamanda scamanda wrote:

Originally posted by Prince of Penzance Prince of Penzance wrote:

Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

Originally posted by 3blindmice 3blindmice wrote:

Why on earth would you Coolmore say "defeating OVER 75 individual G1 winners"? 

With 10 G1s that works out to >7.5 G1 winners in every race he won.  

Most of those must have been in Australia because the total number who contested his 5 OS G1 wins is 27 and some of those would be duplicates

Great horse in any case.


Can anyone find out how many Group 1 winners he beat? Also I checked with Andrew Hawkins and he said the figure for 56 in regards to Winx is wrong....he said the figure is 53


Both wrong. It’s 52


Winx has beaten.

EARTHQUAKE
HAURAKI
HAMPTON COURT
FAMOUS SEAMUS (NZ)
LUCIA VALENTEARTHQUAKE
INA (NZ)
CRITERION (NZ)
HIGHLAND REEL (IRE)
PORNICHET (FR)
HARTNELL (GB)
FAWKNER
GAILO CHOP (FR)
PREFERMENT (NZ)
HAPPY TRAILS
MOURINHO
KERMADEC (NZ)
COMPLACENT
MAGIC HURRICANE (IRE)
WHO SHOT THEBARMAN (NZ)
GUST OF WIND (NZ)
GRAND MARSHAL (GB)
MONGOLIAN KHAN
PRESS STATEMENT
FIRST SEAL
HAPPY CLAPPER
TURN ME LOOSE (NZ)
HUCKLEBUCK
AZKADELLIA (NZ)
STRATUM STAR
REBEL DANE
IT'S SOMEWHAT (USA)
BLACK HEART BART
YANKEE ROSE
VADAMOS (FR)
AWESOME ROCK
LASQUETI SPIRIT
LE ROMAIN
CHAUTAUQUA
SENSE OF OCCASION
THE UNITED STATES (IRE)
FOXPLAY
INFERENCE
VENTURA STORM (IRE)
HUMIDOR (NZ)
PRIZED ICON

Add to that if you need to.


Its 53......Pounamou is a Group 1 winner.
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Prince of Penzance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2018 at 11:04pm
Pounamu was counted. It’s 52
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