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Lordy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lordy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2018 at 6:56pm
I reckon Might and Power would have given her something to catch.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote therealkramer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2018 at 7:26pm
Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

There are a whole of excuses in the KT story, legitimate or not. With Winx, once she got going, there are no excuses, just wins.

No Winx excuses before she got going either. When she was beaten as a 3yo she was beaten fair and square.

Once that hack Moreira aka the Happy Valley Donut King, got off her back it's been onwards and upwards.Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2018 at 8:01pm
Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

There are a whole of excuses in the KT story, legitimate or not. With Winx, once she got going, there are no excuses, just wins.

No Winx excuses before she got going either. When she was beaten as a 3yo she was beaten fair and square.

Serious injuries with long periods out not a fair excuse for you Tlaz?  Which are the "not legitimate" excuses?

Do you reckon Winx is on Lasix?
How would Winx go if asked to carry level weights at WFA? Probably (?), well possibly given her tenacity, loses a coupe of races in Sydney and almost certainly unlikely to have beaten Humidor last year's CP, although we'll never know. Which is the way it should be. And, I'm not knocking her in the least.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2018 at 8:14pm
KT won from 1200m to 3200m and should have won our greatest handicap carrying 59kg, something Winx will never be asked to do let alone achieve. Different horses, different options, different eras. Both Champions of our turf irrespective of what happens to Winx from this point.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2018 at 8:33pm
Originally posted by Lordy Lordy wrote:

I reckon Might and Power would have given her something to catch.


Might & Power was an Epsom Failure.   Winx Won both the big Rdwick Miles.
    We are all crazy when we start comparing the top horses of different era's Lordy .      I always say The Buffs best run ever ( in my mind )
Was When he was gallant in defeat in the Stradbroke . The weight difference crucified him but he tried so hard.
Another underestimated one was Northerly ,   Winx reminds me of him.
He did whatever had to be done ..   Walk and then fly or break the course record if he had to.
I go back a long way and it's sad to say anything is better than Bernborough, Comic Court ,   Todman , Tulloch , Manikato , Vain , Kingston Town, Makybe Diva, Black Caviar etc .   Better stop or I'll cry.
I forgot Rainbird = 1st one to win the Cup after WW2.
   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Balciano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2018 at 9:48pm
Originally posted by AdaHunta AdaHunta wrote:

<span style="font-family: Verdana;">Injured after his first Cox Plate missed Autumns due to injury exactly !!</span><span style="font-family: Verdana;"> </span>
<p style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal; font-family: Verdana; min-height: 15px;"><span style="font-kerning: none"></span>


<p style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal; font-family: Verdana;"><span style="font-kerning: none">Dont think ive ever seen a horse on the wrong leg at the Valley balance up displaying Ferrari like excelleration like he did that day </span>


<p style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal; font-family: Verdana; min-height: 15px;"><span style="font-kerning: none"></span>


<p style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal; font-family: Verdana;"><span style="font-kerning: none">Was never the same horse after that ………All that brilliance in the 1980 Autumn / Spring was the King at his absolute best </span>


<p style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal; font-family: Verdana; min-height: 15px;"><span style="font-kerning: none"></span>


<p style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal; font-family: Verdana;"><span style="font-kerning: none">What makes him so great is what he achieved on 3 legs afterwards  </span>

<p style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal; font-family: Verdana;"><span style="font-kerning: none">
</span>

<p style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal; font-family: Verdana;"><span style="font-kerning: none">Comparing Winx is just something we shouldn't be doing .....both are Champions !!</span>

<p style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal; font-family: Verdana;"><span style="font-kerning: none">
</span>

<p style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal; font-family: Verdana;">



Agree with this Ada Hunter.

Kingston Towns acceleration in the Autumn/Spring of 1980 was something to behold. The way he put good horses away in the space of 2 or 3 strides was ridiculous. The Guineas/Tancred/Derby/Sydney Cup were carbon copies of each other.

As an older horse, after his suspensory ligament issues he was still a champion, but the turn of foot wasn't quite there with the rare exception like the 1981 George Main.

He's similar in that regard to Manikato, who people tend to recall as a warhorse who won his races on grit and heart alone. But like the King, prior to his bleeding attack/heart attack/leg issues, he was a brilliant galloper who would decimate fields. I recall him winning a George Ryder by 6 or 7 lengths, something I never thought we'd see again. The fact these 2 geldings built up such imposing records in spite of their ailments just adds to their greatness IMO. Though I'm glad Kingston Town's final comeback as a 9 yr old never eventuated.

Winx on the other hand, well what else can be said? She's the only horse I know that could go through an entire Spring campaign undefeated, culminating in a track record Cox Plate win, and people were genuinely debating if she was as good as she was 6-12 months earlier.

If thats not a testament to her greatness I don't know what is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Redemption Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2018 at 10:32am
Originally posted by Baguette Baguette wrote:

I'm the same with Kingston Town. He was the best I'd seen and I'm his biggest fan. Saying Winx is better in no way diminishes the King in my mind. There's just something freakish about this girl that I've never seen before.

If we turn it into a science, Winx actually defies physics and logic.
Her cadence actually increases as the race gets longer.
Her cadence is completely off the map.

I loved the King, but the truth is, Octagonal was running faster sectionals than Kingston Town, so make what you want of that.
I rated the Octagonal and Saintly era, higher than the Kingston Town era.

The only standout race of the modern era, in which nobody would have bettered, was Might and Powers Caulfield Cup win. Not a horse in the world would have beaten him that day.

Outside of that, Nobody in the world would have beaten Winx in her 2nd Cox Plate victory.

Winx would indeed win a Melbourne Cup, as her cadence increases the further she goes, which is why she defies all physical logic.
She is a freak.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2018 at 10:41am
I think she will lose the Ryder if it's a dry track- Don't laugh- it could happen one day in Sydney. It's the way she is being caught flat-footed at the shorter distances. Depends on the opposition of course. If it's a typical Sydney bog she wins.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speediskey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2018 at 10:46am
Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

I think she will lose the Ryder if it's a dry track- Don't laugh- it could happen one day in Sydney. It's the way she is being caught flat-footed at the shorter distances. Depends on the opposition of course. If it's a typical Sydney bog she wins.


What absolute rubbish.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2018 at 10:50am
Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

I think she will lose the Ryder if it's a dry track- Don't laugh- it could happen one day in Sydney. It's the way she is being caught flat-footed at the shorter distances. Depends on the opposition of course. If it's a typical Sydney bog she wins.


In fact I won't be surprised if she doesn't start.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2018 at 11:07am
Originally posted by Redemption Redemption wrote:

Originally posted by Baguette Baguette wrote:

I'm the same with Kingston Town. He was the best I'd seen and I'm his biggest fan. Saying Winx is better in no way diminishes the King in my mind. There's just something freakish about this girl that I've never seen before.

If we turn it into a science, Winx actually defies physics and logic.
Her cadence actually increases as the race gets longer.
Her cadence is completely off the map.

I loved the King, but the truth is, Octagonal was running faster sectionals than Kingston Town, so make what you want of that.
I rated the Octagonal and Saintly era, higher than the Kingston Town era.

The only standout race of the modern era, in which nobody would have bettered, was Might and Powers Caulfield Cup win. Not a horse in the world would have beaten him that day.

Outside of that, Nobody in the world would have beaten Winx in her 2nd Cox Plate victory.

Winx would indeed win a Melbourne Cup, as her cadence increases the further she goes, which is why she defies all physical logic.
She is a freak.

What makes you think that? Beaten easily at 2400m against her own age and sex in her only start beyond 2200m.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speediskey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2018 at 11:13am
Originally posted by 3blindmice 3blindmice wrote:

Originally posted by Redemption Redemption wrote:

Originally posted by Baguette Baguette wrote:

I'm the same with Kingston Town. He was the best I'd seen and I'm his biggest fan. Saying Winx is better in no way diminishes the King in my mind. There's just something freakish about this girl that I've never seen before.


If we turn it into a science, Winx actually defies physics and logic.
Her cadence actually increases as the race gets longer.
Her cadence is completely off the map.

I loved the King, but the truth is, Octagonal was running faster sectionals than Kingston Town, so make what you want of that.
I rated the Octagonal and Saintly era, higher than the Kingston Town era.

The only standout race of the modern era, in which nobody would have bettered, was Might and Powers Caulfield Cup win. Not a horse in the world would have beaten him that day.

Outside of that, Nobody in the world would have beaten Winx in her 2nd Cox Plate victory.

Winx would indeed win a Melbourne Cup, as her cadence increases the further she goes, which is why she defies all physical logic.
She is a freak.


What makes you think that? Beaten easily at 2400m against her own age and sex in her only start beyond 2200m.


Also beaten at 2000 against her own age and sex the start before that. Don’t pretend like the trip to QLD didn’t make her.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2018 at 11:19am
Originally posted by 3blindmice 3blindmice wrote:

Originally posted by Redemption Redemption wrote:

Originally posted by Baguette Baguette wrote:

I'm the same with Kingston Town. He was the best I'd seen and I'm his biggest fan. Saying Winx is better in no way diminishes the King in my mind. There's just something freakish about this girl that I've never seen before.


If we turn it into a science, Winx actually defies physics and logic.
Her cadence actually increases as the race gets longer.
Her cadence is completely off the map.

I loved the King, but the truth is, Octagonal was running faster sectionals than Kingston Town, so make what you want of that.
I rated the Octagonal and Saintly era, higher than the Kingston Town era.

The only standout race of the modern era, in which nobody would have bettered, was Might and Powers Caulfield Cup win. Not a horse in the world would have beaten him that day.

Outside of that, Nobody in the world would have beaten Winx in her 2nd Cox Plate victory.

Winx would indeed win a Melbourne Cup, as her cadence increases the further she goes, which is why she defies all physical logic.
She is a freak.


What makes you think that? Beaten easily at 2400m against her own age and sex in her only start beyond 2200m.


The last race to use to compare greatness is the Melbourne Cup.
     It's a bluddy suped up Welter.        . A handicap that captures the hearts & hopes of everyone who has racing in their blood.
Milions thrown at it very successfully and it stands with Worlwide interest , stops a Nation and all of those nice things BUT it is still a Glorified Welter on Racings pedestals.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2018 at 1:36pm
Originally posted by Speediskey Speediskey wrote:

Originally posted by 3blindmice 3blindmice wrote:

 
What makes you think that? Beaten easily at 2400m against her own age and sex in her only start beyond 2200m.


Also beaten at 2000 against her own age and sex the start before that. Don’t pretend like the trip to QLD didn’t make her.
Not pretending anything. Blind Freddie can she she's improved. Cox Plate horses have won the Cup on class altho its a different race these days. She hasn't been trained to win distance races since her filly days. 

Rubbish and obviously unsubstantiable comments like his add nothing to the discussion. I'll see if I can find it and post but I'm sure I heard Waller say she's best at middle distances so that's where they'd keep her.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speediskey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2018 at 1:37pm
Actually he said he thinks she was a miler. He was wrong.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2018 at 1:50pm
Can't find that comment but there are quite a few which have Waller saying 1600m is her best distance. He may wish to modify that now after 3 CPs, 2 course records and a 5.5l thrashing of some very good horses in the QEII.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2018 at 3:24pm
Originally posted by Speediskey Speediskey wrote:

Actually he said he thinks she was a miler. He was wrong.

Don't know about being wrong Speediskey, an Epsom, Doncaster , 3 or 4 Gr races on her merry way also over a mile, quite a few top milers won or placed over the years in a CP,
Personally I would'nt doubt Wallers judgment when discussing her optimum, but that's me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2018 at 4:16pm
Iirc more than a couple on here also rate her Ryder run as her best ever. Don't do ratings but I'm not convinced of that esp as it was a heavy track. Cox Plate 1 for mine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Redemption Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2018 at 4:26pm
I honestly find it amusing that people think she wouldnt win a Melbourne Cup.
She would absolutely brain them.
It would be over at the hometurn.
I would love her to run in the Cup. She would win by a furlong.
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Little wonder you're a Russia, er Trump supporter
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nobody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2018 at 7:36pm
Thinking a start ahead to the Ryder on GS day. Older opposition to Winx is fairly thin on the ground, but since the Ryder is 3 weeks after Aust Guineas and 2 weeks after the Randwick Guineas, there appears to be some capable 3yo's that could give her a tougher fight than Red Excitement on their way through to the Doncaster. In no particular order, Showtime, Mighty Boss, Trapeze Artist, Pierata and Kementari are capable of an upset. Thoughts?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tontonan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2018 at 8:17pm
I think the 3YOs needed to do more against the Japs in the Futurity to pose a realistic threat to the champ.   

I am not bagging them, Showtime ran well,  but was run down by the older horses - and I expect Winx would run away from both of them. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Redemption Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2018 at 11:39pm
is Lasqueti Spirit running?

She is 200-1
Im going to back her to run a place. Hoping they try to make a 10 length lead into the straight, Winx to run her down again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speediskey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2018 at 11:52pm
She’d wanna be going a lot better, on last prep they could whip her the whole way around and I’d doubt she would see the lead over a mile.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2018 at 12:03am
   The best thought about Winx is :-      What would you do if she was yours.
Personally I would never stop Thanking her ,   and I would do exactly what Waller's team is doing now .      Molly coddle her as much as possible , hopefully get her to better the mighty Black Caviar record.
That is a big ask for a middle Distance performer.     Very vulnerable at Runs one & two of a preperation.
   I wouldn't dream of putting her through the overseas travel ,   She is older , and even though she matured late ,   she will be starting to feel father Time .      .   Not a lot of biscuits left in the tin , so enjoy a Champion while we have her ...   NOTHING IS FOREVER.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Straight Connector Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2018 at 8:45am
Fully agree, there is nothing to gain now by travelling overseas.

The QE11 & Cox Plate are hers. There are no real competitors for these races. The only probable thing that could stop her is travel (& associated vac's). So why bother now? We offer the some of the best prize money in the world... take it!

She has nothing to prove to anyone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Redemption Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2018 at 4:27pm
I think is she went overseas and wins, she only goes up a little in history rankings.

Win 4 Cox Plates in a row, and you go up much further in history. It would be talked about for a long long time, not one win overseas.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2018 at 4:35pm
"TAB has taken it’s biggest ever bet on Winx ahead of her return in the Chipping Norton Stakes at Royal Randwick on Saturday, with one confident punter placing $108,000 on the champion mare to win at $1.06.

It surpasses the previous largest of $106,500 at $1.15 to win the 2017 Cox Plate.

“It doesn’t matter what price she is, the punters just want to be on her to win, similar to the days of Black Caviar,” said TAB’s Gerard Middleton"

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2018 at 10:49pm
F overseas!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2018 at 5:42pm
Sorry but I disagree re Winx staying here. If she's "Great" she deserves a chance to prove it and it's been a weak patch in Oz in her time. You don't want her looked back on as a champion who never raced against other champions.
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