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Winx |
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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Atreus, do all your individual race ratings for a horse come out the same or are there fluctuations ?
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reductio ad absurdum
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ChrisB
Champion Joined: 14 Feb 2012 Status: Offline Points: 2290 |
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Geez you weren't abusive? Well done on acting like an adult Gentlidonna, Orfevre were top quality. As Jamal would say So You Think ventured the world. He was found out to a degree but a champ after two easy plates (Qinx has 4 easy plates....nearly got beaten by Humidor Is Best Solution a Superstar? Is Benbatl a Superstar? The fact is Japanese don't bother anymore as our tracks are wet far too often. Yet a barely G3 horse in Kluger towels up Happy Clapper who is apparently rated as a near superstar? Seriously. Winx is amazing and deserves full credit. But her freakishness is vastly overrated. |
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Online Points: 45319 |
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Sorry, you haven't the least bit answered any of the questions put to you.
But entirely par for the course.
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JudgeHolden
Champion Joined: 16 Apr 2011 Status: Offline Points: 11716 |
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C'mon, SC. Surely you would concede the best horses beyond a sprint aren't here. I come back to a golf analogy- those in the USPGA don't really need to travel. If you're in the Australian PGA you can still be a champ, but far better opposition is overseas.
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Summer Regent
Yearling Joined: 06 Mar 2017 Location: Tasmania Status: Offline Points: 175 |
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Here's Timeform's explanation of how they arrived at Winx's and Benbatl's ratings
Timeform is international, so why would they want to inflate the ratings of Winx's opponents to glorify Winx? |
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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reductio ad absurdum
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acacia alba
Champion Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Location: Hunter Valley Status: Offline Points: 41241 |
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Whats your point here ?? After 20 odd pages. You think she is over rated ?? She is a freak but she is over rated ?? How do you over rate a freak ??? Totally lost the plot here .
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animals before people.
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ChrisB
Champion Joined: 14 Feb 2012 Status: Offline Points: 2290 |
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Yes a tad overrated.
I didn't call her a freak. Was Caviar a freak? Hall of Famer and deservedly so. Best ever? (which you Winx maniacs keep pushing). Not for me. Possibly yes, but she wasn't given the opportunity as ran at our worst distance (until the raiders smash us every year in Cups) |
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acacia alba
Champion Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Location: Hunter Valley Status: Offline Points: 41241 |
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OK. Best ever not for you, Chris. So who do you have best ever ? Who is your best ever racehorse ?
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animals before people.
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acacia alba
Champion Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Location: Hunter Valley Status: Offline Points: 41241 |
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PS, back it up with facts , times, distance, type of track surface, way of going, and competitors.
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animals before people.
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JudgeHolden
Champion Joined: 16 Apr 2011 Status: Offline Points: 11716 |
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For me- Black Caviar and Winx assembled similarly freakish streaks.
Being what it is in this country, Black Caviar did it against much better horses.
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kavg
Champion Joined: 08 Jun 2009 Status: Offline Points: 3993 |
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You called Winx a freak on page 135 Chris. Stop lying.
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Prejudice is an emotional attachment to ignorance.
DiEM25 for the world. |
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Baguette
Champion Joined: 18 Dec 2012 Status: Offline Points: 3651 |
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The “ Winx maniacs” as you put it are 99% of people . Most people say she’s the best they’ve ever seen. Calling her the best ever is silly really because it’s impossible to compare horses from different eras . Certainly her record is extraordinary and puts her right up there with the greats of our racing history. She’s a freak because of her unique galloping style of quick strides coupled with her huge stamina . She could hold her speed longer than anything else I’ve seen. Winx is the only horse in my time that I can’t come up with a scenario that would see her beaten. I’d love to know where these miraculous international horses are who you think would give her a race because I’ve never seen them. Remember too her jockey says we don’t know how good she can be because he’d never got to the bottom of her. Yes she’s a freak.
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JudgeHolden
Champion Joined: 16 Apr 2011 Status: Offline Points: 11716 |
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A question, Baguette- how much time in here did you spend sl*gging off Black Caviar? It's there in the search function if people want to have a look.
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JudgeHolden
Champion Joined: 16 Apr 2011 Status: Offline Points: 11716 |
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Here's Baguette's assessment of Black Caviar, and seriously, it took two minutes to find:
LOL |
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JudgeHolden
Champion Joined: 16 Apr 2011 Status: Offline Points: 11716 |
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Love Baguette's opinion on international racing, compared to today.
Funny how the "never been beaten" didn't count for much back then. But there's a lot more, if you could be bothered wading through that sort of drivel.
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acacia alba
Champion Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Location: Hunter Valley Status: Offline Points: 41241 |
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Those 3 freaks being Caviar (imo the best), Makybe and Wind if you required clarity. Spelling bad but means Winx.
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animals before people.
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ChrisB
Champion Joined: 14 Feb 2012 Status: Offline Points: 2290 |
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In other words Baguette and co might as well be completely ignored.
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ChrisB
Champion Joined: 14 Feb 2012 Status: Offline Points: 2290 |
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Winx beat international standard horses. (if forgotten Buffering, Ortensia)
How many have competed or dodged Winx and won overseas or even been competitive? Zero. |
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JudgeHolden
Champion Joined: 16 Apr 2011 Status: Offline Points: 11716 |
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Baguette can't abide that a great horse might ever have come from outside Sydney. sl*gged off Lankan Rupee, if memory serves. Again, the search function will give great hilarity.
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ChrisB
Champion Joined: 14 Feb 2012 Status: Offline Points: 2290 |
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Sorry
Caviar did. |
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ChrisB
Champion Joined: 14 Feb 2012 Status: Offline Points: 2290 |
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I might look that up tomorrow for a laugh. |
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JudgeHolden
Champion Joined: 16 Apr 2011 Status: Offline Points: 11716 |
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People are worried about comments on Winx. I recall entire threads bagging Black Caviar. Funny that some of those calling BC a cotton wool champ, are now praising the Winx campaign.
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ChrisB
Champion Joined: 14 Feb 2012 Status: Offline Points: 2290 |
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I missed a lot of that on here, but if there was a "cotton wool" champ it has Winx already engraved on a trophy before race even started.
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Atreus
Champion Joined: 25 Nov 2014 Status: Offline Points: 329 |
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djebel I rate each run individually. I don't massage any of the ratings as Timeform are obviously doing by boosting up horses that run 2nd to Winx. So there are Fluctuations in the ratings. Winx might get a 67 rating one day and a 60 rating another day on my ratings. In fact the fluctuations are even wider than that for Winx However when I look at all the ratings for Winx together there is no doubt she is a great horse as she can churn out high rating runs like no other horse. Actually I lie. There was one horse in the last few years who did came close to Winx and that was Jameka. Jameka's top 3 runs would only fall 1 point short of Winx's top 3 runs. However Winx's 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th etc rated runs are much higher than Jameka's equivalent runs So overall Winx is the best horse of the last few years but I don't think she had much on Jameka when both were at their best. Which is just one of the reasons I am sceptical about Winx's 33 race winning streak. Even if Winx is a great horse I don't believe you can win 33 in a row if the opposition are giving 100%. No horse has that much of a margin over the opposition. Occasionally either bad luck in running or another horse pulling out a big run should beat you One last point. It is easier in Australia to be a top 2000m horse than a top 1200m horse as Australia has a lot more depth in sprints (obviously) |
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kavg
Champion Joined: 08 Jun 2009 Status: Offline Points: 3993 |
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"Jameka's top 3 runs would only fall 1 point short of Winx's top 3 runs"
Jameka was a very good horse but to rate any of her top 3 runs within 1 point of Winx's top 3 is ludicrous. First of all Timeform and world's best racehorse etc are ridiculous when they take the highest single race performance. Was it Arrogant(?) that they had as top horse in last few years when he was way out of form all down to one supposedly great performance. Whilst Jameka would have been an interesting competitor for Winx we already have form lines that suggest she would not get close to her unless Winx was pushed out to 2400m and was unable to cope. Turnbull 2016-Hartnell delivers a masterclass in beating Jameka by 3.5 lengths. Jameka comes out next start and wins Caulfield Cup. Hartnell goes on to finish 8 length 2nd to Winx in Cox Plate in the most emphatic, demoralising fashion. Many, don't rank Hartnell as any good (but facts are in that year he was youthful and at the top of his game) in order to denigrate Winx. So I expect those same people to come on here and bag you for claiming Jameka was better than Hartnell and within a length or point of Winx. |
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Prejudice is an emotional attachment to ignorance.
DiEM25 for the world. |
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Tlazolteotl
Champion Joined: 02 Oct 2012 Location: Elephant Butte Status: Offline Points: 31290 |
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I cannot conceive of any race on any track on any track rating over any distance where Jameka would trouble Winx. Heavy 10@2400m would be her best shot but she would only have a chance if Winx didn't stay and I suspect that she would.
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An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.
Simon Cameron |
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Tlazolteotl
Champion Joined: 02 Oct 2012 Location: Elephant Butte Status: Offline Points: 31290 |
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123
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An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.
Simon Cameron |
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Shrunk in the Wash
Champion Joined: 25 Mar 2016 Status: Offline Points: 9890 |
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What clear indication would that be
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Tlazolteotl
Champion Joined: 02 Oct 2012 Location: Elephant Butte Status: Offline Points: 31290 |
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Her foul temper.
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An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.
Simon Cameron |
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