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Speediskey View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 7:07am
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by Speediskey Speediskey wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Furore, Eagle Way and Dark Dream would not be any good of they stayed here.



True, not like they were high quality G1 horses on the way up.

We should just get rid of all the horses that don't show their champions until they go to QLD for a winter carnival, ie get rid of Winx, The Autumn Sun, Press Statement, Zoustar and more.


Considering our classic horses rarely train on at 4 under our trainers methods you can be sure these 3 would've comeback to the pack if they stayed here.


So why didn't Winx? 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 7:36am
I don’t understand why people are so quick to bag our industry . It is one of the biggest and most successful racing/breeding industries in the world after all. Compared to just about anywhere else our racing is booming ! The double standard is rife as well. Both Furore and Beauty Generation were racing here they were both merely promising horses. I certainly had both of them marked down as ones to watch next preparation. They go to Hong Kong and start winning, Beauty Generation becoming a champion, and people want to bag our trainers and not consider the opposition they’re facing. Yet when Hartnell , whose form as a young horse in England was similar to them, comes out here and becomes a star it’s because our racing is weak . Double standard much . I think the answer to all these horses is they’ve thrived in their new environment and new racing styles .
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 8:04am
Well, if by "successful" you mean make a lot of money, you're probably right. If you mean by producing quality horses over a range of distances, then it's a dismal failure.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 8:12am
Originally posted by Speediskey Speediskey wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by Speediskey Speediskey wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Furore, Eagle Way and Dark Dream would not be any good of they stayed here.



True, not like they were high quality G1 horses on the way up.

We should just get rid of all the horses that don't show their champions until they go to QLD for a winter carnival, ie get rid of Winx, The Autumn Sun, Press Statement, Zoustar and more.


Considering our classic horses rarely train on at 4 under our trainers methods you can be sure these 3 would've comeback to the pack if they stayed here.


So why didn't Winx? 

Winx is a freak and basically since her 4yo season she has not been campaigned on a typical fortnightly routine.

Waller does not campaign any of his other stars in the same manner he does her, They ALL go through the same fortnightly rigour of racing.

 






reductio ad absurdum



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 8:29am
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:


Winx is a freak and basically since her 4yo season she has not been campaigned on a typical fortnightly routine.

Waller does not campaign any of his other stars in the same manner he does her, They ALL go through the same fortnightly rigour of racing.


Except for one of course but he is worth about $40m though.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 9:09am
V'landys has layed the red carpet out for her in the last couple of years to spite the Mexicans lol, so he can cherry pick a little , I might add this is in no way derogatory to our queenie , she is a delight to watch and we are as horse lovers ..privileged to have her.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 9:12am
Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

I think Winx is superior to SYT at 2000m but she is absolutely superior at the shorter distances. Could SYT win Epsoms, Doncasters, Ryders on his ear without ever getting beaten? Hell no. No chance.


Yes SYT could win a Doncaster, Ryder and Epsom. I think he only had a few goes as a younger horse at the mile for 5th (Caulfield Guineas) and a 2nd (Emirates Stakes). But he was better at 2000m
It's always good when a WA horse does well in the Eastern States or abroad.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 12:44pm
If anyone thinks SYT couldn't win a Doncaster even carrying weight, especially when The Clapper has won two, has completely lost the plot.t

Happy Clapper is not even favourite in a WFA mile over the same distance!!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 12:45pm
SYT if fit and set for race he would be less than 1.50 in this field.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 12:46pm
Jamal, you are right that SYT COULD have won a Doncaster,Ryder or Epsom if he had tried. But he didn't.
Similarly Winx could have won a Tatts Gold Cup, a Prince of Wales and a Coral Eclipse but she didn't try.
You can't believe one WITHOUT believing the other. Otherwise you are being subjective.

In fact there is a form reference we could use to measure up some horses. Carlton House was 2nd to SYT in his last UK run. SYT was retired, Carlton house 2 starts later finished behind Excelebration, then went to HK and finished behind Alcopop, then had a campaign in Sydney including a 2nd behind Silent Achiever and a 2nd behind Dundeel. Alcopop also clashed once with SYT.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 1:00pm
Originally posted by kavg kavg wrote:

Jamal, you are right that SYT COULD have won a Doncaster,Ryder or Epsom if he had tried. But he didn't.
Similarly Winx could have won a Tatts Gold Cup, a Prince of Wales and a Coral Eclipse but she didn't try.
You can't believe one WITHOUT believing the other. Otherwise you are being subjective.

In fact there is a form reference we could use to measure up some horses. Carlton House was 2nd to SYT in his last UK run. SYT was retired, Carlton house 2 starts later finished behind Excelebration, then went to HK and finished behind Alcopop, then had a campaign in Sydney including a 2nd behind Silent Achiever and a 2nd behind Dundeel. Alcopop also clashed once with SYT.


Well then why do some people (not on this forum) say Winx would win an Arc? Because the fact is...she didn't run in one.
It's always good when a WA horse does well in the Eastern States or abroad.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 1:01pm
Originally posted by ChrisB ChrisB wrote:

SYT if fit and set for race he would be less than 1.50 in this field.


I agree.
It's always good when a WA horse does well in the Eastern States or abroad.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 1:02pm
Originally posted by ChrisB ChrisB wrote:

If anyone thinks SYT couldn't win a Doncaster even carrying weight, especially when The Clapper has won two, has completely lost the plot.t

Happy Clapper is not even favourite in a WFA mile over the same distance!!


Spot on
It's always good when a WA horse does well in the Eastern States or abroad.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 3:54pm
Happy Clapper form as a gun horse testing Winx has stood up.........not.

Again.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 3:56pm
Oh come on. Hardly the real Clapper today. Doesn’t race his best in Melbourne but even then disappointing. First up run flattened him.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 3:57pm
Originally posted by ChrisB ChrisB wrote:

Happy Clapper form as a gun horse testing Winx has stood up.........not.

Again.



You like fishing 😂

We all know Happy Clapper goes better in Sydney...and could argue she broke him last start, he tried his guts out and still she won easy. Winx would of won that race today by 3 hard held
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 3:57pm
Originally posted by kavg kavg wrote:

TJ,
Should have made it clear, People over-rate the horses SYT beat in Australia and under-rate the horses Winx has beaten. It is clear as day and night that Winx beat better horses easier and with more authority than SYT did in his 2 Cox Plates.

Jamal,
More Joyous was not a better miler than Happy Clapper-She won Flight Stakes against 3yo fillies, a George Main beating Trusting, a Toorak beating We're Gonna Rock, a Doncaster beating Shoot Out. But she also was beaten 8.5 in a Doncaster, 6.5len in a Myer Classic and 3.5 len in a Toorak.


I'd back More Joyous to run better then Happy Clapper in today's All-star Mile. Longines have Happy Clapper in the top 4 for ratings (123). Happy Clapper is a good horse but not world class. It again proves my point, ChrisB's point and Judgeholden's point that Winx is a champion but the era she is racing in at a mile onwards has no depth.
It's always good when a WA horse does well in the Eastern States or abroad.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 3:57pm
Haha Chris the stirrer. Of course the hartnell and le romain form did stand up for Winx!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 3:59pm
I'd back More Joyous to run better then Happy Clapper in today's All-star Mile. Longines have Happy Clapper in the top 4 for ratings (123). Happy Clapper is a good horse but not world class. It again proves my point, ChrisB's point and Judgeholden's point that Winx is a champion but the era she is racing in at a mile onwards has no depth.
It's always good when a WA horse does well in the Eastern States or abroad.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 4:00pm
Originally posted by kavg kavg wrote:

Haha Chris the stirrer. Of course the hartnell and le romain form did stand up for Winx!


Hartnell got towelled up by Winx, prob should of went close today... Jamal, Chris B love to cherry pick stats...lets face it Jamal only rates horses that have some kind of connection to WA
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 4:01pm
Jamal it does not prove that Winx could win in Europe if trained for it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 4:02pm
I reckon Winx could win in Europe but it's only.my opinion
It's always good when a WA horse does well in the Eastern States or abroad.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 4:03pm
Jamal you don't back Happy in Melbourne.  He's much better in Sydney.  Lots of horses like that.  But not Winx.  She's supreme both ways.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 4:07pm
I also think Winx could win overseas Jamal. Superstar as she is.

But today again proved she has been running against B Grade opposition for a while.

MJ gave them all windburn yet before the race apparently Happy Clapper second best horse in Aust!!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 4:10pm
Originally posted by ChrisB ChrisB wrote:

I also think Winx could win overseas Jamal. Superstar as she is.

But today again proved she has been running against B Grade opposition for a while.

MJ gave them all windburn yet before the race apparently Happy Clapper second best horse in Aust!!


Look at the Longines Official Ratings...the handicappers.rate Happy Clapper highly.
It's always good when a WA horse does well in the Eastern States or abroad.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 4:10pm
Chris look at Happy's record.  He prefers Sydney way.  Like Tie the Knot who was an out and out champ in Sydney and barely got out of his way in Melbourne.  Just the way it is with some horses.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 4:13pm
Benbatl made Happy look ordinary.

Mystic Journey just made Happy look ordinary.

Winx regularly beats Happy Clapper for 1st and 2nd. And everyone craps on about how great she is......yet he isn't that special at all.

There is a theme hers.

Again, i think Winx is amazing but today again just shows it's impossible to think she's a freak as she is beating nothing.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 4:15pm
Furious, top quality horses (like Winx) can win away from home.

Happy can't.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 4:16pm
Originally posted by ChrisB ChrisB wrote:

Benbatl made Happy look ordinary.

Mystic Journey just made Happy look ordinary.

Winx regularly beats Happy Clapper for 1st and 2nd. And everyone craps on about how great she is......yet he isn't that special at all.

There is a theme hers.

Again, i think Winx is amazing but today again just shows it's impossible to think she's a freak as she is beating nothing.



And Hartnell? He thrashed Happy Clapper today, Winx thrashes Hartnell...lets face it, you're an idiot
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 4:16pm
Originally posted by furious furious wrote:

Chris look at Happy's record.  He prefers Sydney way.  Like Tie the Knot who was an out and out champ in Sydney and barely got out of his way in Melbourne.  Just the way it is with some horses.


At least TTK had a better record in Melbourne....14 starts for 1 win and 6 placings. Happy Clappers record in Melbourne Has had 6 starts for 1 placing.
It's always good when a WA horse does well in the Eastern States or abroad.
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