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Xavier View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 5:53pm
It’s getting old now
Karl and Susan Kennedy are my heroes
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ChrisB View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 5:55pm
You are free to read other threads.

Pumping up Winx and bagging So You Think I'd say id "old".

Both Champions. Winx better but not by much.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 5:57pm
Coming ThroughLOL. Couldn't have come up with a worse example there- completely battered at his overseas runs. I think the Winx Preatorian Guard in here is misrepresenting what some of us are saying (although I'll let ChrisB speak for himselfErmm)

Winx is a champion, one of the best horses to ever look through a bridle in this neck of the woods. Anyone who disputes this is an idiot. But she's racing in an era where the standard of horses from a mile and beyond in this country is completely cratering (imho, hence the increasing need to import them). Connections have had opportunities (indeed invites), to take her over and match motors with the world's best. Who most decidedly AREN'T here. They've declined. But it's something a lot of lesser horses nonetheless tried.
 
For me, sorry...but it's a knock.


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ChrisB View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 5:59pm
Anyone else read Hugh Bowman's article on Racenet?

Worth taking a look
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Xavier View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 6:05pm
Originally posted by ChrisB ChrisB wrote:

You are free to read other threads.

Pumping up Winx and bagging So You Think I'd say id "old".

Both Champions. Winx better but not by much.


Not once have I even mentioned SYT
Karl and Susan Kennedy are my heroes
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Afros View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 6:21pm
Originally posted by ChrisB ChrisB wrote:

Winx is a freak (probably is, sure) and So You Think is overrated? (unbeaten in Cox Plates and multiple G1 wims against better opposition)

Good grief.


Shamus Award is unbeaten in Cox Plates.
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Jamal View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 6:34pm
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Coming ThroughLOL. Couldn't have come up with a worse example there- completely battered at his overseas runs. I think the Winx Preatorian Guard in here is misrepresenting what some of us are saying (although I'll let ChrisB speak for himselfErmm)

Winx is a champion, one of the best horses to ever look through a bridle in this neck of the woods. Anyone who disputes this is an idiot. But she's racing in an era where the standard of horses from a mile and beyond in this country is completely cratering (imho, hence the increasing need to import them). Connections have had opportunities (indeed invites), to take her over and match motors with the world's best. Who most decidedly AREN'T here. They've declined. But it's something a lot of lesser horses nonetheless tried.
 
For me, sorry...but it's a knock.




I agree. Well said. Anyone who can't see there is lack of depth from 1600m onwards need to take their blinkers off.

You have hit the nail on the head yet again.
It's always good when a WA horse does well in the Eastern States or abroad.
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ChrisB View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 6:41pm
Originally posted by Xavier Xavier wrote:

Originally posted by ChrisB ChrisB wrote:

You are free to read other threads.

Pumping up Winx and bagging So You Think I'd say id "old".

Both Champions. Winx better but not by much.


Not once have I even mentioned SYT


I wasn't referring to you mate.

If you are going to call me out then call out other's as well
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ChrisB View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 6:43pm
Originally posted by Afros Afros wrote:

Originally posted by ChrisB ChrisB wrote:

Winx is a freak (probably is, sure) and So You Think is overrated? (unbeaten in Cox Plates and multiple G1 wims against better opposition)

Good grief.


Shamus Award is unbeaten in Cox Plates.


Well that's a bit silly considering the rest of his career.

Plus if anything it undermines the race as being genuinely the best winning it.
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Xavier View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 7:35pm
My post was directed at you and jamal who keep saying the same thing over and over again. It’s tiresome
Karl and Susan Kennedy are my heroes
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Jamal View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 7:40pm
Originally posted by Xavier Xavier wrote:

My post was directed at you and jamal who keep saying the same thing over and over again. It’s tiresome


But what we are saying is true. Judgeholden also says the same. There is no depth at a mile onwards.
It's always good when a WA horse does well in the Eastern States or abroad.
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Xavier View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 7:46pm
Here we go again.
You don’t need to keep repeating yourself.
Karl and Susan Kennedy are my heroes
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Shawy38 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 7:48pm
I don’t even know why this is still being discussed.
It’s been done to death a million times already
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kavg View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 7:52pm
Our middle distance/staying depth has almost always been low. It was low for Kingston Town, Better loosen up, Horlicks, makybe diva to name a few champs. Didn't stop BLU and Horlicks winning Japan cups.

In fact the only times we have had depth was the years of octagonal, saintly,might and power etc. Then years of northerly, sunline, lonhro etc and lesser extent strawberry road, veloso, Cossack prince, Grosvenor etc
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 8:00pm
Originally posted by kavg kavg wrote:

Our middle distance/staying depth has almost always been low. It was low for Kingston Town, Better loosen up, Horlicks, makybe diva to name a few champs. Didn't stop BLU and Horlicks winning Japan cups.

In fact the only times we have had depth was the years of octagonal, saintly,might and power etc. Then years of northerly, sunline, lonhro etc and lesser extent strawberry road, veloso, Cossack prince, Grosvenor etc

Well that's just bizarre. Octagonal and Saintly didn't race against M&P.  BLU was racing against Super Impose, Vo Rogue, Naturalism, Let's Elope etc...probably the greatest era for middle distance horses ever- they went over and won Japan Cups, you know.

Imagine that today..."I've got an Aussie horse and I'm going to win a Japan Cup!!!" You'd maintain eye contact and back slowly toward the door.
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kavg View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 8:26pm
I'm talking eras judge. And yes forgot blu/Horlicks era was close etc.

But we have had little depth since mid 90's. Didn't stop haradasun, starcraft, starspangled, so you think winning overseas. And only syt was the best horse in the country at the time.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 8:30pm
Originally posted by kavg kavg wrote:

I'm talking eras judge. And yes forgot blu/Horlicks era was close etc.

But we have had little depth since mid 90's. Didn't stop haradasun, starcraft, starspangled, so you think winning overseas. And only syt was the best horse in the country at the time.

Actually he wasn't, lost horse of the year vote to Black Caviar when he was in Australia.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 8:31pm
Originally posted by Shawy38 Shawy38 wrote:

I don’t even know why this is still being discussed.
It’s been done to death a million times already


Always time for a million and one.

Being a horse racing forum after all.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 8:36pm
Originally posted by kavg kavg wrote:

I'm talking eras judge. And yes forgot blu/Horlicks era was close etc.

But we have had little depth since mid 90's. Didn't stop haradasun, starcraft, starspangled, so you think winning overseas. And only syt was the best horse in the country at the time.

And Mummify. He beat good Euro opposition in Singapore. But today, Winx aside, there isn't an Oz horse that I think would be remotely competitive overseas at 2000 and beyond the way our horses of the past were. With demented restricted juvenile racing etc we've driven our breed off a cliff. Run fast, run young and then who cares, right...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 8:40pm
Agree judge.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 8:49pm
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

Originally posted by kavg kavg wrote:

I'm talking eras judge. And yes forgot blu/Horlicks era was close etc.

But we have had little depth since mid 90's. Didn't stop haradasun, starcraft, starspangled, so you think winning overseas. And only syt was the best horse in the country at the time.


And Mummify. He beat good Euro opposition in Singapore. But today, Winx aside, there isn't an Oz horse that I think would be remotely competitive overseas at 2000 and beyond the way our horses of the past were. With demented restricted juvenile racing etc we've driven our breed off a cliff. Run fast, run young and then who cares, right...



And thus is what I'm getting at
It's always good when a WA horse does well in the Eastern States or abroad.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 9:20pm
Originally posted by kavg kavg wrote:

Agree judge.


Well why are writing million word posts to the contrary?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 9:42pm
I couldn't give a monkeys bum for any race further than 2000m anywhere.

Give me our smart sprinters anytime , over the boring unpredictable races over 2400m plus.

Glorified Welters our top Staying Races, Traps to bet on.

At least you know how the shorter events will be run, on most occasions, and you can bet with confidence. ( Like R3 --2 Talented at Flem. tomorrow)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 9:50pm
The best 2400 horses often just end up as National Hunt Stallions for a service fee of $5k
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 6:06am
Originally posted by Whale Whale wrote:

Originally posted by Afros Afros wrote:

Surprised you haven't mentioned Rising Fast flight, in the spring of 54 he won the Turnbull, Caulfield Stakes, Caulfield Cup, Cox Plate, MacKinnon, Melbourne Cup, CB Fisher Plate and VRC Queen Elizabeth, not many could do all of that over their career these days!

Obviously ignoring the CB Fisher since it no longer exists.


I like Winx but I find that more impressive than anything she has ever done, it is true she has been stage managed, taken the safe option as great as she is.  I wonder is her greatness attributable to being able to maintain her high standard over a number of years ?



So that’s exactly what I and Chris B have been saying but you chose to abuse me for it
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 6:22am
Our ranks are pretty low at the moment and I suspect it’s because of the global market.

I don’t think we’d be saying that it’s low if we had the likes of Beauty Generation, Furore, Eagle Way & Dark Dream hadn’t left our shores as tried horses.
The Ryder & QE would be ripping good races
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 6:25am
Furore, Eagle Way and Dark Dream would not be any good of they stayed here.





reductio ad absurdum



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 6:38am
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Furore, Eagle Way and Dark Dream would not be any good of they stayed here.


True, not like they were high quality G1 horses on the way up.

We should just get rid of all the horses that don't show their champions until they go to QLD for a winter carnival, ie get rid of Winx, The Autumn Sun, Press Statement, Zoustar and more.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 6:47am
I think Winx is superior to SYT at 2000m but she is absolutely superior at the shorter distances. Could SYT win Epsoms, Doncasters, Ryders on his ear without ever getting beaten? Hell no. No chance.
"Even the things that I believe in the most, I doubt.”
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 6:56am
Originally posted by Speediskey Speediskey wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Furore, Eagle Way and Dark Dream would not be any good of they stayed here.



True, not like they were high quality G1 horses on the way up.

We should just get rid of all the horses that don't show their champions until they go to QLD for a winter carnival, ie get rid of Winx, The Autumn Sun, Press Statement, Zoustar and more.


Considering our classic horses rarely train on at 4 under our trainers methods you can be sure these 3 would've comeback to the pack if they stayed here.





reductio ad absurdum



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