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Tlazolteotl View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2018 at 12:49pm
Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

Didn't Waller say words to the effect that it was a perfect ride and he had her in a perfect spot, but there are different expectations around her?


He had it in last place in a race that was highly likely to be slowly run. Worse than that even- he had it in last place blocked in by a horse on his outside.
"Even the things that I believe in the most, I doubt.”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2018 at 12:50pm
Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

The consensus seems to be that it was a good ride. I thought it was another shocker of a ride but the horse keeps on saving Bowman.

I agree, because she is an exceptional horse capable of recovering from setbacks, unfavourable incidents in a race and running over the top with an astounding burst of speed i feel he does not put as much effort into positioning her well as he would with other horses.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2018 at 12:53pm
Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

Didn't Waller say words to the effect that it was a perfect ride and he had her in a perfect spot, but there are different expectations around her?


He had it in last place in a race that was highly likely to be slowly run. Worse than that even- he had it in last place blocked in by a horse on his outside.

Waller addressed that before the race saying she had superior acceleration and while not ideal he wasn't that concerned. Her closing sectionals bear that out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SHOVHOG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2018 at 12:54pm
If that was ten years ago the riding on the mighty boss would have been way more vigorous! It was soft letting him out even if the horse wasn't travelling well. Imagine Jim Cassidy on the mighty boss. Winx wouldn't have run a place.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rusty nails Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2018 at 1:03pm
Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

Didn't Waller say words to the effect that it was a perfect ride and he had her in a perfect spot, but there are different expectations around her?


He had it in last place in a race that was highly likely to be slowly run. Worse than that even- he had it in last place blocked in by a horse on his outside.


Waller addressed that before the race saying she had superior acceleration and while not ideal he wasn't that concerned. Her closing sectionals bear that out.

Only racing luck can beat her,so let’s put her in a position where racing luck comes into play?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2018 at 1:07pm
Maybe 5 wide at the tail as she is ageing isn't the ideal place to be either. As he said it wont last forever and she will succumb to age. Maybe a ''softer'' run with cover was what they deemed best preparing for the biggest target.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote marble Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2018 at 1:10pm
bad luck can happen in races that can see even champions beaten, however bowman has guided her to 26 straight victories . They probably didnt want a gut buster going into the cox plate, and how was he to know it would be so slowly run? He rode her perfectly.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rusty nails Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2018 at 1:15pm
Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

Maybe 5 wide at the tail as she is ageing isn't the ideal place to be either. As he said it wont last forever and she will succumb to age. Maybe a ''softer'' run with cover was what they deemed best preparing for the biggest target.

Clearly 5wide would not be ideal, but there was no one 4 wide to be outside.
She could have had Grunts back with ease, and peeled off at the top of the straight.
No risk,no gut buster.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sunline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2018 at 1:16pm
Come on guys, the facts say it was a poor ride. He set her what was an impossible task for every horse in the country except her.

How can that be a good ride? How can a ride from that barrier, ending up last the fence, be a good ride? Why, because he got lucky with gaps appearing and she was then a champion to somehow run 1000m splits at the end of a 2000m race?

There isn't a single positive thing about that ride...and I love Hugh. The reality is he has largely ridden her poorly, and to some extend I forgive him because it's understandable with the pressure he's under and the ability to ride her poorly knowing she will still win.

But any suggestion that was a good ride yesterday is seriously disrespectful to what the champ had to, and did, overcome to win.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacko1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2018 at 1:27pm
Waller said if it was any other horse you would have said it was a good ride.. I guess because Bowman got an inside run and gaps at the moment she needed them. If there was a Humidor/Happy Clapper type horse in the race it may have been interesting though, you wouldn't want to be giving them a chance to get a break on you. He could have easily got one off the rails out of the gates but he wasn't paying attention to the horses around and behind him. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote correctweight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2018 at 1:46pm
Looking back the replay there was no way she was not going to win, dont think bowman even whipped her and rode hands and heels the whole way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sunline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2018 at 1:56pm
Originally posted by jacko1 jacko1 wrote:

Waller said if it was any other horse you would have said it was a good ride.. I guess because Bowman got an inside run and gaps at the moment she needed them. If there was a Humidor/Happy Clapper type horse in the race it may have been interesting though, you wouldn't want to be giving them a chance to get a break on you. He could have easily got one off the rails out of the gates but he wasn't paying attention to the horses around and behind him. 

I'll sound like an idiot, but he's simply wrong. He does not know what he's saying. Any other horse and the punters are screaming because it gets beat. She is thew only horse that could win from that position. Her sectionals say as much.

Waller is being cute here though. He said after the race that he didn't want to see her last and on the rails. You don't need to be a genius to know there simply wasn't much more of a task he could set her - unless of course he sat 4 deep no cover in a Cox Plate Embarrassed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2018 at 2:05pm
You would think he was on Kiwi or Makybe Diva not a horse who beats the top sprinters at 1500m. She should have been in the first 5, 2 or 3 wide.LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2018 at 2:05pm
Compared to how Mal Johnson rode Kingston Town in most races Hughie is a genius imo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2018 at 3:58pm
Anyone watching the replay of the fillies mile race at Flemington yesterday watch Aristia ,draws the one alley and stays there , went to the post on its own with nowhere to go, that's how it's done when you miss the boat , wouldn't have won but maybe placed , she'll keep, NZ filly one to beat in the Oaks imo. but I digress.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2018 at 4:26pm
The Stablemates unexpected final sectional ,allowed Hugh to get out of a hopeless situation.      That created the gap and let Winx out.
    I'll say again ,   Bowman does sleep on duty at times.      Luck is needed and luck he got.     That said ,a terrific win by a true champion.

Remember, he sat 4 wide all the way in last years Cox Plate and fell in.
Broke her own course record to do it.      CHAMPION.
   Have a look at the record of some of the horses she has beaten.    They have certainly proved how good she is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2018 at 5:01pm
Originally posted by Carioca Carioca wrote:

Anyone watching the replay of the fillies mile race at Flemington yesterday watch Aristia ,draws the one alley and stays there , went to the post on its own with nowhere to go, that's how it's done when you miss the boat , wouldn't have won but maybe placed , she'll keep, NZ filly one to beat in the Oaks imo. but I digress.

Plenty of those yesterday carioca with the rail out 9m
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2018 at 6:08pm
Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

Originally posted by Carioca Carioca wrote:

Anyone watching the replay of the fillies mile race at Flemington yesterday watch Aristia ,draws the one alley and stays there , went to the post on its own with nowhere to go, that's how it's done when you miss the boat , wouldn't have won but maybe placed , she'll keep, NZ filly one to beat in the Oaks imo. but I digress.


Plenty of those yesterday carioca with the rail out 9m

I agree PT, when a filly is a backmarker and drawing an inside gait you need a lot to go your way but when you have a champion like Winx she could have jumped from box6 at Chiquita Lodge they seem to find a way, of course you need someone to steer them as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Formerly Kincsem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2018 at 6:45pm
I can’t help but roll my eyes every time I hear people talk about a horses ‘change of gear’ or ‘turn of speed’. Winx sustains high speed for 600-800 it’s the horses around her wilting late that give the illusion of a late increase of speed. Quite simply her dominance in a particular race depends on how taxing the event is (either distance, race speed or track condition). Yesterday she had a slow run race on a fast track which is why the opposition were able to hold out for so long. Here’s hoping she gets a bit of moisture in the track for the Cox Plate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2018 at 6:56pm
Yep, her last 600 in 33.2 or so certainly gave the impression the others might be wilting.  Tongue


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacko1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2018 at 7:22pm
Debbie Kepitis maintains there has been no consideration given to retiring champion mare Winx if she wins an unprecedented fourth Cox Plate later this month.

There has been suggestions that the Cox Plate could be Winx’s final race start but Kepitis, who part-owns Winx with Richard Treweeke and Peter Tighe, dismissed the speculation.

“There has been no retirement talk, definitely not,’’ Kepitis said yesterday.

“If all goes well, Winx will run in the Cox Plate, she will definitely go for a spell and then we will see how she is (next autumn),

“As Chris (Waller) keeps saying, she is racing so well you would be doing her a disservice by retiring her. She is enjoying it and wants to race.’’

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2018 at 7:26pm
Originally posted by Lordy Lordy wrote:

Originally posted by Lordy Lordy wrote:

Those sectionals can't be right.  It has Ventura Storm running a faster last 600 than Winx.  He was 3L in front of Winx at the 600 and was beaten just under 2L at the post.

Oops, scratch that.  I was comparing to Youngstar's sectional by mistake.


I fell for the exact, same , first impression as you Lordy.

I was thinking they must have been using alarm clocks .   Different colouring for Winx was the trap.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2018 at 7:28pm
Strange the wilting description, even the horse that ran last broke 47 for the last 800, the second horse ran the last 400 in 22-08, last 200 in 11-08, not exactly wilting imo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2018 at 7:33pm
Originally posted by Second Chance Second Chance wrote:

Yep, her last 600 in 33.2 or so certainly gave the impression the others might be wilting.  Tongue



Ahem lol, 32-21.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Formerly Kincsem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 2018 at 5:43pm
Originally posted by Carioca Carioca wrote:

Strange the wilting description, even the horse that ran last broke 47 for the last 800, the second horse ran the last 400 in 22-08, last 200 in 11-08, not exactly wilting imo.

Exactly my point, they went so slowly early that the field didn't fold as they would have if the race was run at a normal pace. Had they run faster Winx would have ran similar closing sectionals and won by a much larger margin.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Formerly Kincsem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 2018 at 5:48pm
Originally posted by Second Chance Second Chance wrote:

Yep, her last 600 in 33.2 or so certainly gave the impression the others might be wilting.  Tongue



I said she sustains speed over 600-800m and the 600m sectional time only supports this. But my main point is she is not 'push-button' and does not have a 200m burst of speed as some describe and her strength shows off a genuine test. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 2018 at 9:09pm
SC was testing to see if you were awake .    He stole 20 metres from her final 600.     32.2.
   She made horses running near 22.16 for their final 400 m, look like maidens from Bourke over the final stages.

What a crime had Winx not got out at the 200m.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2018 at 11:10am
Great ride and run!

Hardly touched and never going to lose.

Champ!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2018 at 1:01pm
LOL, I reckon Winx could have found her own way thru with no help from Hughie.
  I thought he did a good job.
  As Nick says. ^
animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pnclick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2018 at 1:22pm
In a similar vein to Makybe Diva in a few of her Melbourne Cup wins, good horses find ways through as they have the ability to accelerate into the gaps when they appear.
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