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Second Chance 
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 Posted: 19 Aug 2018 at 5:44pm |
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Agreed.
However she's arguably the best mare ever to have raced anywhere anytime, and regarding distance versatility at Gp 1 level would appear rather superior to Frankel. All just imo of course.  |
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djebel
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Posted: 19 Aug 2018 at 5:46pm |
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18 days shy of 4 years Winx finally gets to 100 pages.
How long did it take Black Caviar ? |
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reductio ad absurdum
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VOYAGER
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Posted: 19 Aug 2018 at 5:47pm |
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That is why she should take up Breeders invite.
But that will not happen! |
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Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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Second Chance
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Posted: 19 Aug 2018 at 6:01pm |
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Hard to say Djebel, as there's at least a dozen Black Caviar threads to wade through.  |
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djebel
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Posted: 19 Aug 2018 at 6:28pm |
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As I was pressing the post reply button I was thinking just that.
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reductio ad absurdum
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3blindmice
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Posted: 19 Aug 2018 at 8:42pm |
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4 CPs puts her into rarefied atmosphere in this country's racing history, just as MD's 3 Cup wins did her. The difference is that the Cup wins essentially define MD's greatness while Winx's legacy will (may) be the G1 win and unbeaten run tallies.
Prizemoney comparisons fit somewhere between meaningless and odious in my book although you won't find average horses in the top 10 earners obviously.
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djebel
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Posted: 19 Aug 2018 at 8:47pm |
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Connections of Phar Lap, Tobin Bronze and So You Think were far more adventurous.
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reductio ad absurdum
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3blindmice
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Posted: 19 Aug 2018 at 8:58pm |
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They all raced in handicaps though djebel
 Bart would have won the Cup with SYT had he stayed here.
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djebel
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Posted: 19 Aug 2018 at 9:01pm |
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reductio ad absurdum
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Shrunk in the Wash
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Posted: 19 Aug 2018 at 9:07pm |
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Not as adventurous as TJ with the King |
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3blindmice
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Posted: 19 Aug 2018 at 9:20pm |
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 djebel
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Jamal
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Posted: 19 Aug 2018 at 10:46pm |
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Not sure SYT wins the Melbourne Cuo if he stayed in Australia...he ran 3rd with 56kg....a great effort considering he had never ran beyond 2040m in his career before that Cup placing. The following year he would of got more weight.....maybe 58kg/59kg. I do think that SYT would of won a third Cox Plate though. |
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Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Formerly Kincsem
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Posted: 20 Aug 2018 at 8:16am |
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Was purely talking about my opinion. Most Internationals think she is gelatie no doubt. |
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Tlazolteotl
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Posted: 20 Aug 2018 at 9:46am |
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None of the reasons they were take offshore applies to Winx.
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Redemption
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Posted: 20 Aug 2018 at 10:18am |
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Frankel got the wobbles under pressure. Couldnt run straight. Winx would have sat along side him, and crushed him, skipping away. Not a horse in the world would have beaten Winx in her 2nd Cox Plate. If Frankel and Winx ran alongside each other at the 800m around the Valley, Winx would have simply crushed him that day. Winx actually gets faster as the race progresses. She defies all physical logic. Her cadence quickens the further she goes. |
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Tlazolteotl
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Posted: 20 Aug 2018 at 10:39am |
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She certainly gets those legs moving in the straight faster than any horse I've ever seen and that is a scientific fact.  Did she used to to that when she was a 3yo? She couldn't have done, because I can't imagine a horse striding that fast and losing, and she did lose. |
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3blindmice
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Posted: 20 Aug 2018 at 10:51am |
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The vast majority of horses run their fastest from 600-200 when ridden "properly" (generally speaking, there are cases to be made for setting up a lead obviously). They mostly then slow significantly over the last 100-200.
Where she excels is that - as you say - she gets more strides in than her opponents (according to a study). BC used her stride length to gain a similar advantage according to the same study. Both great racehorses, as was Frankel. Interesting to hear Bowman say that at the top of the straight on Sat Winx was 'going nowhere' so to speak. I got that impression on the Sat blog but we probably all thought that's just her - takes a while to wind up (true)
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maccamax
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Posted: 20 Aug 2018 at 10:57am |
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Don't even mention Frankel on this thread ... There must be a Benchmark thread somewhere for him.
Winx could carry him and win. |
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maccamax
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Posted: 20 Aug 2018 at 11:11am |
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The first 800 = 49.26. Times not fast on the day . She made her run 3 + wide , about 5 wide on the turn.
Her final sectional must have been at the speed of light .. Sensational win. |
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jacko1
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Posted: 20 Aug 2018 at 11:14am |
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Her win in last years George Main was one I'd forgotten about, but watching now I remember thinking on the turn she must have been injured because she was being ridden along and not making ground. Then from about the 300 to the 200 she accelerates and puts the race to bed. That section is where she wins her races.
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Passing Through
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Posted: 20 Aug 2018 at 11:34am |
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Jamal
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Posted: 20 Aug 2018 at 4:49pm |
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Interesting assessment, interesting read. Take a look.
https://www.racingandsports.com.au/en/timeform/timeform-recap-2018-winx-stakes-story-457348 |
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Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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jacko1
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Posted: 20 Aug 2018 at 5:02pm |
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Interesting. "Despite her success she never really hit the high notes last spring but her three-run autumn campaign showed her back at the top of her game and this looks to confirm as much." She wasn't too bad last Spring was she? She won the CP after a tough run. She thrashed them in the Turnbull. Her Warwick Stakes win was very good. The other runs had merit. She's always going to go better when their is a bit of give in the ground in the autumn.
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3blindmice
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Posted: 20 Aug 2018 at 5:28pm |
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Pretty sure that was the race where Bowman 'went to sleep' mid-race according to one analyst Jacko. Mid-race sectionals were slow and he was just idling along near the rear. Iirc he said he lost sight of the leader or something similar?
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jacko1
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Posted: 20 Aug 2018 at 6:03pm |
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Are you sure that wasn't the Chelmsford last year when Red Excitement set up a big lead and he sat quietly until the turn?
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horlicks
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Posted: 20 Aug 2018 at 6:07pm |
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Bowman said on Sunday that was the most concerned he had been in any race. He said he was concerned around the 1000 and gave her a shake up but she did not respond and appeared she did not want to race. However approaching the 600 when she was still "in trouble" he gave her a couple of sharp cracks with the whip and as they rounded the turn she "switched on" and proceeded to round up Happy Clapper to win as usual.
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horlicks
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Posted: 20 Aug 2018 at 6:08pm |
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Referring to the George Main.
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3blindmice
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Posted: 20 Aug 2018 at 6:29pm |
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Could be right
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Miami
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Posted: 20 Aug 2018 at 7:36pm |
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I believe it was the Colgate Optic White Stakes where she was shaken unrepeatedly and under hard riding most of the trip.
That was an absolutely remarkable win and the ear muffs messed with her. |
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Redemption
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Posted: 21 Aug 2018 at 9:59am |
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Regarding her cadence quickening,,,, yes, of course horses are generally ridden as swoopers, to give their burst in the final 400. Thats simply what a swooper is.
But what makes Winx so unusual, is swoopers "sustain" their run at a certain cadence speed. Winx is actually quickening, and quickening. She is entitled to tire, or at the very least, just go the same sustained sprint speed. But she actually gets faster the further she goes. She one bats in almost every race, for maybe 100m, then clicks into 5th gear. but what is truly amazing about her, she goes into a 6th gear. Thats what makes her elite,upon elite. She has a 6th gear.
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