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'Wastage' Facts

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furious View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2016 at 12:57pm
Then why make breeders up in arms by similar high minded stand over tactics.  Talk, research and understand your participants.  Get the story on how they operate and get the true story out there.

I've just had a horrid week with overheads for me going through the roof so don't need to be told - as I close on 60 - that the industry I've given my life too, which I love with all my heart, is in fact totally against modern thinking.  Why.  Does modern man want to live in a room and play video games about horses and dogs, but never know the real live animal.

Living with animals is hard work but worth the effort.  No one, who doesn't live that life, has the right to tell others that "oh well that is life", goodbye to another industry.  I've said it before when they decided to shut down floor mills in Australia it killed my father with grief and stress.  So much worry for a gentle man and I'm sure that's what brought on his cancer.

Racing Australia may of had all the best will in the world but likewise they went about it the wrong way.  What is wrong with people these days.  Are the big men so protected that they can't see the stress that the small man is suffering from.  We all have to work hard to keep this industry safe at all times.  It's so easy for a fall to kill either a horse of jockey etc.  We have to work hard to keep the creeps - who don't care and only look at the bottom line of winning a dollar by drugs - found and out of the industry.  We have to realise that not every mare goes in foal and not every foal is born alive.  We have to understand that studs often have deaths from accident - not some sinister underlying story.  We had the sad story from second coming about losing a filly to snake bite.  A filly who to them was worth her weight in gold and hope for the future.

Stop this undercutting and bickering and start fighting for these horses we all should love and admire.  Many people here wouldn't know what to do without them and every person in Australia, whether they know it or not, would be poorer.
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bradjm View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote bradjm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2016 at 1:17pm
says the guy whose stallions serve over 200 mares in a season
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bradjm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2016 at 1:17pm
referring to messara their :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2016 at 1:26pm
Coolmore usually have Arrowfield in spade for numbers of foals by their sires  bradjm.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2016 at 1:36pm
Is that right? Only 20% of thoroughbreds race as 2yos? 

Do most of that 80% never race? You don't see many racehorses that didn't race at 2.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2016 at 1:44pm
I am not taking sides here.  I am just curious about the opposition to Messara,s ideas.  He is a very cluey and innovative man,  and a huge breeder, and he sees benefits in it.
I didnt get to hear any opposition spokes person,s side to it, but would be interested to.

animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2016 at 1:46pm
Take a glance at all the short distance maiden fields at this time of the year, they're chokkas with 1st starters LOL
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2016 at 1:59pm
Originally posted by Gay3 Gay3 wrote:

Take a glance at all the short distance maiden fields at this time of the year, they're chokkas with 1st starters LOL

So why all the whinging about 2yo racing, when only 20% of them do it and they are the ones suited to it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2016 at 2:02pm
The funny thing Gay3 is in England you can have three two year old races at one meeting (full of first time starters) any time after July - I download those races and grind my teeth when there are so many two year races as I know most wont be in the computors database and have to be loaded and linked.  So they start them as two year olds.  We aren't doing ourselves any service not doing so but I suppose an awful lot of them have trialled at two year olds which is better than nothing.

Funny thing if I protected a baby and didn't let it run around I'd be doing it a disservice.  Bones need to be strengthened for the work they are going to do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2016 at 3:21pm
They are furious, thru' gallops, jumpouts & trials, just not races. These days it's counter productive to start any horse unless it's a fair chance of gaining prizemoney because with 2 or 3 unplaced runs, they have buckleys of beating ballots thereafter.
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2016 at 3:58pm
Thanks gay
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2016 at 10:57pm
  EAT all wastage animals ...       Problems solved.



























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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2016 at 11:27pm
How much longer am I in the dog box Macca ?
Give peace a chance
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2016 at 2:00am
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

How much longer am I in the dog box Macca ?
 
 Yr  out =        mates to the end .         Lend me a quid ?
 
 
1-1    "  That is the end "



























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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bradjm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2016 at 4:44pm
Originally posted by furious furious wrote:

Coolmore usually have Arrowfield in spade for numbers of foals by their sires  bradjm.




Snitzel and Smart missile have both serve over 800 mares each in the last four seasons
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2016 at 5:10pm
Originally posted by acacia alba acacia alba wrote:

If wastage in the industry isnt properly addressed,  whats to stop racing going the way of the dogs.
Messara is correct when he says this industry must be seen to be proactive on animal welfare and wastage.
He can see the writing on the wall, from a large breeders view.

Thoroughbred racing is the rich mans game.

The dish lickers are the poor mans game.

Thoroughbred horse racing will not be shut down.




STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote troppo75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2016 at 5:27pm
you know what the problems with stats is?

if it shows up 1 horse died.. people will have something to hang outrage on...

they get their 1 die on a racetrack via tv a week / two weeks.. that is enough, they can show that for the world.. give the bleeding hearts actual numbers in the range of 200 - 1000 and then you're dealing with a big mess.. 

A real messara


Now having passed 1000 posts I feel you are all so much the wiser for my having said... stuff!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2016 at 10:35pm
  We will reach the stage where the law of the jungle will be the only judicial judgement accepted.
 
        I have already promised myself that the first " Fool "  who knocks on my door to tell me I'm not allowed to smoke inside my unit , in  their community title complex ....  Will be slaughtered for food for my dogs.



























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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Isaac soloman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2016 at 12:35pm

Trio charged for selling horsemeat as beef

AAP 
A British trio has been charged for allegedly selling horsemeat disguised as beef.
A British trio has been charged for allegedly selling horsemeat disguised as beef.

Three men have been charged with fraud for allegedly selling horsemeat as beef in Britain in 2012.

Eating horsemeat is culturally taboo in Britain and in 2013 the country's food industry was rocked by scandal when it emerged that horsemeat was being sold in some imported beef products.

Investigations at the time found that companies including Britain's biggest supermarket Tesco and fast-food chain Burger King were selling beef products that contained horsemeat.

The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) said on Friday Ulrik Nielsen, Alex Ostler-Beech and Andronicos Sideras are accused of conspiring together and with others to sell as beef a mixture of what was in fact horsemeat and beef.

The charges relate to activities between January and October of 2012 and follow an investigation by City of London Police.

"After carefully considering evidence from the UK and overseas, the CPS has decided that there is sufficient evidence to provide a realistic prospect of conviction and it is in the public interest to charge these three men," the CPS said a statement.

They will appear at City of London Magistrates Court on September 27.

AAP
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 12:17pm
  Most living things are eaten somewhere in the world .
 
       Even humans .  
 
  Can you imagine a Sunday roast with Fiddles on the menu .
 
      HOW would they clean him .



























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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 1:19pm
Have to turn the spit handle pretty quick Macca,.other wise he would eat all of the potatoes !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ticino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 9:52pm
Hello,
so it's a little wonder "Snitzel" didn't end up on human plates, (Tongue in Cheek).
 
(Offtopic) Btw, his Name is misspelled something I offen see in typical "German words", correct it would be "Schnitzel", best known in Austria /German as "Wiener Schnitzel". You definitelity will find the recipe in a book about German Cooking.
 
regards, Ticino
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 10:23pm
Aussies are notorious for laziness Ticino & spelling how words sound Wink that'll ruffle a few feathers I'm sure LOL tho' I'm sure Fiddles will back me!!
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ticino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 10:44pm
Hello, Gay,
meanwhile I know Aussie hardly open their mouth to keep out flies and midgets.
 
Admittingly "German" is regarded even in Europe, one of the hardest to learn languages. In comparison is English easier especially, when I think of grammer. For example English you have a simple "The" (mother, father, child)and in German "der, die, das"  (der Vater (male), die Mutter (female), das Kind (neuter)). Even as a German by birth, I was mis(treated) with German Grammer for many years.
 
A great Story had been written by Mark Twain, the American Writer , about the "Terrible German Language", it's worth reading.
 
regards, Ticino
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Aug 2016 at 1:38pm
Brajam in response to the numbers of mares served to stallions Coolmore win hands down against Arrowfield.

Arrowfield

Redoute's Choice three times champion sire 1701 foals over 15 years and 3 years above 200 mares

Snitzel 1048 foals from 9 years and 4 seasons above 200

Not a Single Doubt 967 foals over 10 years and never over 200

the others in numbers are just also rans with numbers between 70 and 130 a season

take Fastnet Rock from Coolmore he has 1603 foals over 10 years and 8 seasons above 200 mares served

Encosta de Lago no longer serves but has 2046 foals from 18 years but his early years didn't see over 135 mares but had 6 seasons above 200 mares at Coolmore

So You Think 404 foals over 3 years one over 200

Pierro 326 foals in two years one over 200 and one 199

Choisir 1486 foals over 12 years two years served over 200 mares

So Redoute's has served 5 years more at stud of just over 100 more foals to Fastnet Rock
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Aug 2016 at 1:44pm
Missed Smart Missile who has 479 foals over three years so that compares to Pierro's 326 over two years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Aug 2016 at 1:45pm
And first season of Rubick at Coolmore saw him serve 214 mares to Smart Missiles first season of 196 mares.  So still just below.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 10:44pm
Originally posted by reng reng wrote:

Originally posted by 3blindmice 3blindmice wrote:

You can get a fair guide from the industry's own annual report figures and from my recollection on the face of it they aren't pretty any way you dress them up.  Something like 90,000 horses bred over a 5 year period and less than 20,000 were still registered to race. 70,000 seems to be a damned high attrition rate and it would be a brave man or woman who'd suggest that even half of them are out there grazing the hills. No point in ignoring the facts.

I have no idea where you get your figures from.

Using Stud Book figures and a rolling average over five years of 15,000 foals born each year:

Foals born in 5 years: 75,000
Foals that die before racing age (according to Stud Book): 4,500*
*Notifications of death to the Stud Book are voluntary and work out to 6% of foals born, but estimates from breeders are up to 10%.

Foals that go to stud: 22.4% of foals born (some raced, some unraced) or 16,800


Revisiting after the 4C wimpout and found this. Sorry I didn't get back to you but the answer was already provided. As I said, racing's annual reports. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2018 at 1:59pm
6% sounds like quite a lot to me.

If it is 10%, well that is even worse.




STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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