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Vow And Declare

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djebel View Drop Down
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    Posted: 22 Jun 2019 at 4:25pm
Not exactly bred to stay. The Gene test must have told Danny where to go with him.

VOW AND DECLARE (AUS)Chestnut gelding 2015 
Declaration of War
Bay 2009
War Front
Bay 2002
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Pas de Nom
Bay or brown 1968
Admiral's Voyage
Petitioner
1959
1952
4-n
7-a
Starry Dreamer
Grey 1994
Rubiano
Grey 1987
Fappiano
Ruby Slippers
1977
1982
16-a
3-o
Lara's Star
Bay 1981
Forli
True Reality
1963
1973
3-b
4-r
Tempo West
Chestnut 1999
Rahy
Chestnut 1985
Blushing Groom
Chestnut 1974
Red God
Runaway Bride
1954
1962
8-c
22-d
Glorious Song
Bay 1976
Halo
Ballade
1969
1972
2-d
12-c
Tempo
Chestnut 1992
Gone West
Bay 1984
Mr Prospector
Secrettame
1970
1978
13-c
2-f
Terpsichorist
Chestnut 1975
Nijinsky
Glad Rags
1967
1963
8-f
13-b
Geblitzt
Chestnut 2006
Testa Rossa
Bay 1996
Perugino
Bay or brown 1991
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Pas de Nom
1961
1968
2-d
7-a
Fairy Bridge
Bay 1975
Bold Reason
Special
1968
1969
19-b
5-h
Bo Dapper
Bay 1985
Sir Dapper
Bay 1980
Vain
Sikri
1966
1967
A10
C25
Bodega
Bay 1973
Without Fear
Salon
1967
1964
4-c
1-w
Aim for Gold
Bay 2000
End Sweep
Bay 1991
Forty Niner
Chestnut 1985
Mr Prospector
File
1970
1976
13-c
1-n
Broom Dance
Bay 1979
Dance Spell
Witching Hour
1973
1960
2-f
4-r
Young Vic
Bay 1992
Old Vic
Bay 1986
Sadler's Wells
Cockade
1981
1973
5-h
11-a
Loralane
Bay 1977
Habitat
Lora
1966
1972
4-r
9-c
 Ancestor duplications:Danzig3m x 4m Mr Prospector5m x 5m




reductio ad absurdum



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furious View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2019 at 5:03pm
Followed Irongail who was out of Young Vic.  The Mumtaz Mahal family can go both ways but maybe just saying maybe not many stayers up in Queensland.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SkyDancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 2019 at 7:36pm
Huge return today
They are planning on 2nd up into the Caulfield Cup
Then potentially 3rd up the 3200m at Flemington
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VOYAGER View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VOYAGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 2019 at 7:38pm
I would not doubt O'Brien.

He after all did get Barbaricus to run third in a Caulfield Cup.

I do not think he can win either cup, but I do not think he is far off Mr Quickie!
Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Foxseal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 1:26pm
He’s currently 37th in the Melb Cup order of entry.

I definitely like the horse & hope he make the field. But are there really 13 horses above him in the order of entry that will drop out over the next month?

Thinking he might need to win something this prep to make it - ie: one of Caulfield, MV or Bendigo Cups
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 1:31pm
How will they get him there ?

Moonee Valley Cup seems the logical way to go.

Is that all he will do before the Cup ?




reductio ad absurdum



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djebel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 1:32pm
Is Latrobe in Australia ? 




reductio ad absurdum



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Foxseal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 2:26pm
I believe Latrobe is in quarantine, so he’ll be on his way. Who knows what Lloyd will do with him when he’s here. Doesn’t strike me as a 3200m horse though.

It would seem V&D might find it tough to get into the top 18 for the Caulfield Cup field, so they’d need to make a call between the Geelong Cup or the MV Cup, with Bendigo Cup & Hotham Hcp as the respective back ups if he doesn’t win at Geelong or MV.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xavier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2019 at 3:49pm
Craig Williams booked for Caulfield
Karl and Susan Kennedy are my heroes
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SHOVHOG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2019 at 4:32pm
Tough race but it was hard to miss it’s first up run. Huge chance.
" In gambling the many must lose in order for the few to win"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sir Gov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2019 at 7:58pm
Will give it a massive shake.  On the way up!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Redemption Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2019 at 8:48am
Is Vow an Declare heading to the Caulfield Cup?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Foxseal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2019 at 9:04am
Yes Redemption, I believe he is.

With all the drop outs over the past few days (KWD, Self Sense, Raymond Tusk, etc) he’s comfortably in the top 18 in the order of entry.

I couldn’t be confident of him winning at Caulfield but love to see him run well enough to justify pressing on to the Melb Cup.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Redemption Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2019 at 9:54am
Thanks Foxseal.
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Xavier View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xavier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2019 at 2:22pm
Craig Williams booked for CC
Karl and Susan Kennedy are my heroes
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lexawin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2019 at 9:49am
Thats the end of its chances....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sunline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2019 at 4:07pm
Really like this horse. Such a promising stayer. I'm on for Saturday, but I'm on bigger for the first Tuesday in November. He will love 3200m at Flemington.
Sunline...simply supreme
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xavier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2019 at 4:14pm
I’m still spewing about him being an emergency in the Derby last year.
Would’ve made a fortune
Karl and Susan Kennedy are my heroes
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Hare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2019 at 7:33pm
Breeders get a bum rap when it comes to laying blame for the dearth of stayers bred out here.

They couldn't sell this bloke for $60k.

Perhaps there are too many trainers on the buying bench.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2019 at 7:55pm
However at the time of his offering those who claim to understand pedigrees would have suggested his profile suggested "miler" with 2000m as just a possible ask.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2019 at 8:01pm
Every thoroughbred is bred deep down to run at least 4000m however even I above queried his stamina from a pedigree point of view.






reductio ad absurdum



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Jamal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2019 at 8:07pm
Has won up to 3000m
It's always good when a WA horse does well in the Eastern States or abroad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2019 at 8:12pm
Thanks Jamal, we all know that.  Does it have any relevance to what's being discussed about when he was offered for sale and his apparent pedigree profile at the time?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2019 at 8:32pm
When I first saw Vow And Declare race.i honestly thought he'd get to 2400m at least...so I was surprised when he got to 3000m and won.

I think it's his price as a yearling & chances of making a stayer, based on his pedigree that's being discussed, rather than what was evident once he started his career.


Edited by Gay3 - 19 Oct 2019 at 8:55pm
It's always good when a WA horse does well in the Eastern States or abroad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2019 at 8:59pm
I heard an interview with DOB about 6mths ago & not only does he DNA test each horse for its' ideal distance, in order to program its' training from scratch but also uses sensors on front legs to pick up the slightest change in stride, therefore minimising risk of serious injury.
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shawy38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2019 at 9:06pm
Still dirty that he beat Periscope, who I had backed in a maiden about 12 months ago.
Periscope is still trying to win a race!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Red Hare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2019 at 10:55pm
Originally posted by Gay3 Gay3 wrote:

I heard an interview with DOB about 6mths ago & not only does he DNA test each horse for its' ideal distance, in order to program its' training from scratch but also uses sensors on front legs to pick up the slightest change in stride, therefore minimising risk of serious injury.
Couple things...

1. How does a guy with the nous to use those two things get mixed up with the dodgy vet.

2. That’s not an exclusive test, and even so, he didn’t use it as a sales tool. He had the sibling Lycurgus (a son of Star Witness) in the yard & was sent a horse that was passed in & retained to race. Lycurgus is a multiple winner at 2000m+ though had only once stepped out beyond 1400m when V&D went through the ring. Two months later he won the listed Galilee Final over 2400.

Add to that the history of Stakes winners in the family AND the sire’s major wins being well within the range of consideration for staying potential, and it’s safe to say that the writing was on the wall.

Not saying I would’ve put my hand up at the sale, but I fail to see how the information on the page would peg him as anything... if he was pegged as a miler, he probably would’ve sold above the reserve.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shawy38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2019 at 10:58pm
Just speculating here, but from memory he wasn’t the best looking horse easy days.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shawy38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2019 at 10:59pm
The most important question though..... has he done enough to get into the final 24... I hope so
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VOYAGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2019 at 11:12pm
I am not sure Shawy, but if he hasn't then seriously we need a look at the qualifications.

Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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