Go to Villagebet.com.au for free horse racing tips - Click here now
Forum Home Forum Home > Horse Breeding - Public Forums > Breeding Forum
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Vow and Declare/Prince of Arran
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Thoroughbred Village Home Page. For village news, follow @TBVillage on Twitter. For horseracing tips, follow @Villagebet on Twitter. To contact the Mayor by email: Click Here.

Vow and Declare/Prince of Arran
 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Ticino View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 20 Oct 2008
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2926 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ticino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Vow and Declare/Prince of Arran
    Posted: 07 Nov 2019 at 10:10pm
Hello,
When I checked the ped of the "Melbourne Cup Winner" Vow and Declare, I spot in his damline a Name
I was familiar. At first I couldn't remember where, but a later Research revealed it's the same damline
as Golden Horn (English Derby winner), the common ancester is "Loralane".
 
As I see, the "declared second" by the Stewards "Prince of Arran" is by the Germanbred Sire "Shirocco", well his Sire is "Monsun". So it's an indirect success for the Germanbred Racehorses. Shirocco was purchased by Godolphin, but later sent to South America (Brazil?).
 
regards, Ticino
 
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 41381 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2019 at 10:41pm
VOW AND DECLARE (AUS)Chestnut gelding 2015 
Declaration of War
Bay 2009		War Front
Bay 2002		Danzig
Bay 1977		Northern Dancer
Bay 1961		Nearctic
Natalma		1954
1957		14-c
2-d
Pas de Nom
Bay or brown 1968		Admiral's Voyage
Petitioner		1959
1952		4-n
7-a
Starry Dreamer
Grey 1994		Rubiano
Grey 1987		Fappiano
Ruby Slippers		1977
1982		16-a
3-o
Lara's Star
Bay 1981		Forli
True Reality		1963
1973		3-b
4-r
Tempo West
Chestnut 1999		Rahy
Chestnut 1985		Blushing Groom
Chestnut 1974		Red God
Runaway Bride		1954
1962		8-c
22-d
Glorious Song
Bay 1976		Halo
Ballade		1969
1972		2-d
12-c
Tempo
Chestnut 1992		Gone West
Bay 1984		Mr Prospector
Secrettame		1970
1978		13-c
2-f
Terpsichorist
Chestnut 1975		Nijinsky
Glad Rags		1967
1963		8-f
13-b
Geblitzt
Chestnut 2006		Testa Rossa
Bay 1996		Perugino
Bay or brown 1991		Danzig
Bay 1977		Northern Dancer
Pas de Nom		1961
1968		2-d
7-a
Fairy Bridge
Bay 1975		Bold Reason
Special		1968
1969		19-b
5-h
Bo Dapper
Bay 1985		Sir Dapper
Bay 1980		Vain
Sikri		1966
1967		A10
C25
Bodega
Bay 1973		Without Fear
Salon		1967
1964		4-c
1-w
Aim for Gold
Bay 2000		End Sweep
Bay 1991		Forty Niner
Chestnut 1985		Mr Prospector
File		1970
1976		13-c
1-n
Broom Dance
Bay 1979		Dance Spell
Witching Hour		1973
1960		2-f
4-r
Young Vic
Bay 1992		Old Vic
Bay 1986		Sadler's Wells
Cockade		1981
1973		5-h
11-a
Loralane
Bay 1977		Habitat
Lora		1966
1972		4-r
9-c
 Ancestor duplications:Danzig3m x 4m Mr Prospector5m x 5m




reductio ad absurdum
Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 41381 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2019 at 10:42pm
PRINCE OF ARRAN (GB)Bay gelding 2013 
Shirocco
Bay 2001		Monsun
Bay or brown 1990		Konigsstuhl
Brown 1976		Dschingis Khan
Brown 1961		Tamerlane
Donna Diana		1952
1956		1-e
6-e
Konigskronung
Brown 1965		Tiepoletto
Kronung		1956
1957		2-c
5-h
Mosella
Bay 1985		Surumu
Chestnut 1974		Literat
Surama		1965
1970		7-b
19>
Monasia
Bay 1979		Authi
Monacensia		1970
1969		14-b
8-a
So Sedulous
Bay 1991		The Minstrel
Chestnut 1974		Northern Dancer
Bay 1961		Nearctic
Natalma		1954
1957		14-c
2-d
Fleur
Bay 1964		Victoria Park
Flaming Page		1957
1959		10-c
8-f
Sedulous
1986		Tap on Wood
Chestnut 1976		Sallust
Cat o' Mountaine		1969
1967		2-o
14-f
Pendulina
Brown 1978		Prince Tenderfoot
Rosemarin		1967
1966		8-c
2-e
Storming Sioux
Bay 2006		Storming Home
Bay or brown 1998		Machiavellian
Bay or brown 1987		Mr Prospector
Bay 1970		Raise a Native
Gold Digger		1961
1962		8-f
13-c
Coup de Folie
Bay 1982		Halo
Raise the Standard		1969
1978		2-d
2-d
Try to Catch Me
Bay 1986		Shareef Dancer
Bay 1980		Northern Dancer
Sweet Alliance		1961
1974		2-d
4-r
It's in the Air
Bay 1976		Mr Prospector
A Wind Is Rising		1970
1969		13-c
4-k
Sueboog
Bay 1990		Darshaan
Brown 1981		Shirley Heights
Bay 1975		Mill Reef
Hardiemma		1968
1969		22-d
1-l
Delsy
Brown 1972		Abdos
Kelty		1959
1965		1-e
13-c
Nordica
Chestnut 1983		Northfields
Chestnut 1968		Northern Dancer
Little Hut		1961
1952		2-d
4-r
Princess Arabella
Bay 1978		Crowned Prince
Fair Arabella		1969
1968		4-d
16-c
 Ancestor duplications:Northern Dancer4m x 5m,5m Mr Prospectorx 4m,5f




reductio ad absurdum
Back to Top
Grey Affair View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 24 Jun 2017
Location: Queensland
Status: Offline
Points: 288 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grey Affair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2019 at 10:59pm
Vow And Declare also related to G1 winners Hauraki & Kidnapped as well as stakeswinners Academus, Deledio, Walking Or Dancing, Irongail & of course his half-brother Lycurgus.
Back to Top
Grey Affair View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 24 Jun 2017
Location: Queensland
Status: Offline
Points: 288 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grey Affair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2019 at 11:00pm


Back to Top
Red Hare View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 12 Jan 2015
Location: Victoria
Status: Offline
Points: 3575 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Hare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2019 at 1:54am
Couldn’t get $60k for him.
Back to Top
kavg View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 08 Jun 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3009 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kavg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2019 at 2:03pm
Also with vow and declare he has his tail female going to Lora who is also in the tail female of cracksman
Back to Top
Grey Affair View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 24 Jun 2017
Location: Queensland
Status: Offline
Points: 288 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grey Affair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2019 at 2:31pm
... and Lora was a half sister to Klairessa, the dam of Eight Carat & Great Klaire, two mares who had a major influence on Australian & New Zealand breeding as well as the champion sprinter Habibti.
Back to Top
Grey Affair View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 24 Jun 2017
Location: Queensland
Status: Offline
Points: 288 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grey Affair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2019 at 2:34pm
Humidor traces back to Habibti.
Back to Top
diomed View Drop Down
Yearling
Yearling
Avatar

Joined: 16 Nov 2016
Location: Dublin
Status: Offline
Points: 227 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote diomed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2019 at 11:23pm
Good spot.
I notice the pedigree of Loralane and the champion sprinter Habibti (1980) are similar, both by Habitat.  What jumps out is the full-sibling brother Royal Charger (Nearco-Sun Princess) on their sire lines and the full-sibling sister Tessa Gillian (Nearco-Sun Princess) on their dam lines.  I think Habibti bred nothing useful, in my data nine offspring rated 67, 82, 45, NR, 33, 79, 25, 68, 73.  Habibti was rated 132.
kincsem
Back to Top
Brudder_A View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 01 Apr 2013
Location: Atlantic City
Status: Offline
Points: 2134 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brudder_A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2019 at 12:19pm
Prince of Arran was ruled out of the G1 Japan Cup when Japanese racing officials disallowed the use of a stalls blanket, used to help load horses with an aversion to the confines of the starting gate.

Japan Cup will have no foreign runner for the first time in its history.

Prince of Arran is heading for Hong Kong instead for the Longines Hong Kong Vase (G1) on Dec. 8 —a race in which he finished eighth last year from an outside draw.
Back to Top
Ticino View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 20 Oct 2008
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2926 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ticino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2019 at 8:18pm
Hello,
a few remarks of mine.
 
At first many thanks for mentioning more descents of Lora in AUS. my Intention was the strain of "Lora" is still represented in Europe.
 
I had a look at the peds of Habibti/Loralane like Diomed. Both are Habitat (very good broodmare Sire in Europe), but it's a more complex ped. Loralane/Habibti by Habitat, damsire of Habibti (o/o Klairessa) is Klairon, damsire Lora is Lorenzaccio by Klairon. Granddam of both mares is Courtessa by Supreme Court. Such Kind of ped is called 5/8 relatives.
Even more interesting the dam of the top broodmare "Eight Carat" (Octagonal) is Klairessa! Lora and Klairessa  are 3/4 relatives. So we have a set of 3 closely related broodmares.
 
As already pointed out Habibti's first Generation offspring wasn't a great success on the race track. The picture looks a bit different with the Grandsons/Granddaughters, see Mining Propect (Rock of Gibraltar), Ilitshe (Fastnet Rock) and in Europe Morshdi (Slip Anchor). He won the Gr. Preis von Baden and should stand as Sire in Germany, unfortunately he was infertile and was send back racing.
 
Best regards, Ticino
 
Back to Top
Jamal View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 5592 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2019 at 2:23pm
Hopefully Prince Of Arran can run well in the Hong Kong Vase this Saturday.

Melbourne Cup Runners: Record in Hong Kong Vase: Same Year as Running in the Cup - Since 1999


2018:

Rostropovich - 7th

Prince Of Arran - 8th


2017:

Max Dynamite - 6th

Tiberian - 11th


2016:

Big Orange - 11th


2015:

Preferment - 7th


2014:

Red Cadeaux - 6th


2013:

Dunaden - 3rd

Red Cadeaux - 4th

Simenon - 5th

Mount Athos - 9th


2012:

Red Cadeaux - 1st

Dunaden - 5th


2011:

Dunaden - 1st

Red Cadeaux - 3rd


2010:

Americain - 3rd


2009:

No Runners


2008:

No Runners


2007

No Runners


2006:

No Runners


2005:

No Runners


2004:

No Runners


2003:

No Runners


2002:

No runners


2001:

No Runners


2000:

No Runners


1999:

Rogan Josh - 4th



17 runners: 2-0-3
Your F50 aircraft is now ready for boarding.
Back to Top
Jamal View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 5592 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2019 at 2:23pm
Sorry I meant Sunday
Your F50 aircraft is now ready for boarding.
Back to Top
Jamal View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 5592 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2019 at 4:54pm
Melbourne Cup form hasn't held up on the world stage again....no surprises of course. Oh well. Always next year
Your F50 aircraft is now ready for boarding.
Back to Top
Second Chance View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 20391 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2019 at 5:09pm
Please elaborate so we can better understand your point.  Runners, where, finishing position, opponents etc.
Back to Top
Shawy38 View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 13 Jun 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 8086 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shawy38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2019 at 5:27pm
Oh Geezus Jamal... talk about laying the boot in
Back to Top
Tlazolteotl View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 02 Oct 2012
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 17230 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2019 at 5:30pm
Crikey they had Athero at Black Caviar odds. Don't follow HK form so had a quick look at his form and it wasn't Black Caviar form.
"Two hundred years ago, 99.999 percent of human idiocy went unrecorded. Now we have the Internet."

Errol Morris
Back to Top
Tlazolteotl View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 02 Oct 2012
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 17230 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2019 at 5:40pm
Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

Melbourne Cup form hasn't held up on the world stage again....no surprises of course. Oh well. Always next year


Held up better than Epsom Derby form.
"Two hundred years ago, 99.999 percent of human idiocy went unrecorded. Now we have the Internet."

Errol Morris
Back to Top
kavg View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 08 Jun 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3009 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kavg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2019 at 7:02pm
Well said Tlaz!

And on top of that taking 3200m form for a 2400m race is the bastion of fools.
The Epsom derby is 2400m so failed miserably.
Back to Top
Second Chance View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 20391 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2019 at 7:03pm
Where's Jamal?
Back to Top
Grey Affair View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 24 Jun 2017
Location: Queensland
Status: Offline
Points: 288 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grey Affair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2019 at 7:19pm
.... and the mare that finished 10th in the Melbourne Cup has just finished a close second in the Hong Kong Cup.
Back to Top
Tlazolteotl View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 02 Oct 2012
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 17230 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2019 at 7:28pm
Pretty weak HK Cup this year.
"Two hundred years ago, 99.999 percent of human idiocy went unrecorded. Now we have the Internet."

Errol Morris
Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 41381 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2019 at 8:22pm
Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

Melbourne Cup form hasn't held up on the world stage again....no surprises of course. Oh well. Always next year


Yet Magic Wand did it proud.

She should have bolted in.




reductio ad absurdum
Back to Top
Jamal View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 5592 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2019 at 9:59pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

Melbourne Cup form hasn't held up on the world stage again....no surprises of course. Oh well. Always next year


Yet Magic Wand did it proud.

She should have bolted in.


Could/should...it doesn't cut it. Sorry mate.
Your F50 aircraft is now ready for boarding.
Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 41381 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2019 at 3:04am
Even her close second whether you like it or not it did justice to her Melbourne form.




reductio ad absurdum
Back to Top
Jamal View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 5592 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2019 at 12:33pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Even her close second whether you like it or not it did justice to her Melbourne form.


Correct. But not in the Cup. More like the Mackinnon Stakes form held up overseas. I am referring to the Cup.
Your F50 aircraft is now ready for boarding.
Back to Top
Carioca View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 13 Nov 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 9600 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2019 at 12:39pm
Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Even her close second whether you like it or not it did justice to her Melbourne form.


Correct. But not in the Cup. More like the Mackinnon Stakes form held up overseas. I am referring to the Cup.

So what 2 mile race did she race in yesterday to form that opinion?
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.109 seconds.





Click here to bet with our preferred online bookmaker, BetEasy.