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two mares - Tassie Stallion Choice

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    Posted: 19 Jul 2018 at 2:59am
Hi All,
       I am going to have to choose to breed one of these two mares this year as I am limited by funds. I will be choosing between 4 stallions.


Needs Further

Alpine Eagle

Wordsmith

Clangalang


the two mares are -

Malandrina - Brilliant Leader x The Spoiler(Pride of Kellina)

Sh'bourne Kahlua - Brilliant Leader x River Doll (Bao Lack)

I already have taken Malandrina to a staying stallion in Savoire Vivre only get to a plugger. I now have two Wordys from her. the first trialled yesterday and ran a nice second . He was not pushed up the straight as he is only 8 weeks in work today. the rising two year old on type looks a beauty but looks is all we have at the moment.

the second mare has a Tough Speed filly who turned out huge and is yet to win and she has a nice yet smallish Needs Further filly(rising two year old) at the breakers so none the wiser re this cross yet.

l like the cross with Kahlua and Clangalang a lot however the downside is they take time. with the new Tasbred scheme coming into play they are only eligible until they turn 5 so this is a risk on return to allow us to continue in the game.

Alpine Eagle yet proven but perhaps a mainland type stallion - unknown yet

Needs Further - putting pace into his progeny with two two year olds breaking sprint track records.

Wordy -Mr Consistency./ sensible progeny

thanks for your thoughts.
Cheers Slowdown
Star - trialling tuesday,Rebel - racing in 3 or 4 weeks, Attie - spelling, Lionel - first prep, Brandy - spelling.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slowdown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2018 at 3:01am

MALANDRINA
13yo Grey Mare
D.O.B: 01-Aug-2004
by BRILLIANT LEADER from THE SPOILER
5x Pedigree Report

Status
Retired
Owner’s Details at retirement
(when Racing Australia is advised)
Mr D T Curran, Mrs C T Curran, Mrs K L Gerakis, Ms R Di Pietrantonio, Mr A A Campbell, Mr E Knight, Mr J B Sinatra, Mrs D M Curran, Mr J M Patroni, Mr D G Mann OAM
Stewards Embargoes
None on record
Emergency Vaccination Record
(Click here for more details)
Last Gear Change*
17-Oct-2010, Bit Lifter, On
Trainer

Racing Colours
Gold, Royal Blue And Lime Crossed Sashes, Lime Armbands
Career
Summary: 28-5:2:4    Prizemoney: $139,625    Total Bonus: $25,900
Min/Max-Dist-Win: 1350/2200     1st Up: 6:0-2-0    2nd Up: 4:1-0-0     
Firm: 0:0-0-0     Good: 19:4-1-3     Soft: 8:1-1-1     Heavy: 1:0-0-0    Synthetic: 0:0-0-0
Note: WA Gear Changes may be incomplete
Star - trialling tuesday,Rebel - racing in 3 or 4 weeks, Attie - spelling, Lionel - first prep, Brandy - spelling.
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SH'BOURNE KAHLUA
14yo Brown Mare
D.O.B: 07-Nov-2003
by BRILLIANT LEADER from RIVER DOLL
5x Pedigree Report

Status
Retired
Owner’s Details at retirement
(when Racing Australia is advised)
Ms M M Brosnan
Stewards Embargoes
None on record
Emergency Vaccination Record
(Click here for more details)
Last Gear Change*
13-Apr-2010, Blinkers, On, Comment: Declared - trialled in blinkers.
Trainer

Racing Colours
Lime, Emerald Green Four Leaf Shamrock And Armbands
Career
Summary: 23-3:2:1    Prizemoney: $34,380    Total Bonus: $1,400
Min/Max-Dist-Win: 1300/1700     1st Up: 8:0-1-0    2nd Up: 8:1-0-1     
Firm: 0:0-0-0     Good: 13:3-2-0     Soft: 9:0-0-1     Heavy: 1:0-0-0    Synthetic: 0:0-0-0
Star - trialling tuesday,Rebel - racing in 3 or 4 weeks, Attie - spelling, Lionel - first prep, Brandy - spelling.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slowdown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2018 at 2:33pm
very quiet on here LOL
Star - trialling tuesday,Rebel - racing in 3 or 4 weeks, Attie - spelling, Lionel - first prep, Brandy - spelling.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2018 at 2:34pm
Am on the job.  Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2018 at 2:55pm
Slowdown, both mares are hard to match from a line breeding perspective.

If you can cop a 3f x 3m Danehill cross I'd be going to Needs Further, and you'll probably get a discount if you book both mares to him.  Plus I reckon he's the best of the three established sires.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slowdown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2018 at 3:07pm
thanks kindly S.C. I knew you would get on the job. thats great advice and yes i can cop that. The stable filly Pateena Arena is sex balanced to Danehill which appears to be the most successful of the duplications so far. 
Star - trialling tuesday,Rebel - racing in 3 or 4 weeks, Attie - spelling, Lionel - first prep, Brandy - spelling.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2018 at 5:17pm
Sorry slowdown out yesterday and today - school holidays.  And now working but I think Needs Further is the best for speed and family also.  But I haven't checked the pedigrees out so only just thinking that way without a proper look.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TJMitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2018 at 5:29pm
I know not quite the same as 3f x 3m Danehill but both Luger (HK Derby winner) and Prompt Response have a 3m x 3m Danehill off the top of my head
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slowdown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2018 at 5:39pm
thanks TJ and Furious. seems 3 x 3 Danehill is getting far enough away to cross. 
Star - trialling tuesday,Rebel - racing in 3 or 4 weeks, Attie - spelling, Lionel - first prep, Brandy - spelling.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slowdown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2018 at 5:41pm
Originally posted by furious furious wrote:

Sorry slowdown out yesterday and today - school holidays.  And now working but I think Needs Further is the best for speed and family also.  But I haven't checked the pedigrees out so only just thinking that way without a proper look.
certainly putting the speed into them Furious. a nice 2nd today for the Mc Ardles today with THE FLYING SCOT. Good battle up the straight and not far off a win i would think. 
Star - trialling tuesday,Rebel - racing in 3 or 4 weeks, Attie - spelling, Lionel - first prep, Brandy - spelling.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bushy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2018 at 9:03pm
I could not bred a double danehill even if free- those stats are just horrible and for me that's a no brainer

ALpine eagle for mine was mentally unstable and also unsound so not sure how people breed to a horse like that- albeit on his day was a star

id be using Mawingo-A Magic Millions staff member first told me about them as the best types they have seen by a first season sire full stop since the I am invincibles. He said physically they where STAMPED.

Ive brought into 2 of them (shares) and reports are both well above average


Looking at his pedigree they also seem to be going to be 1200-1600m horses as his sire Tertullian is more this way. His female line is sensational. The other aspect if not for getting a poor ride from Williams he should be a Group 1 winner at 1400m beating All too Hard - his also the only Group 1 winner down there


Ive brought a mare specifically this year to send to him and I notice they have sold ok

Wordy is ok but his a Tassie stallion only- hasn't really done it on the mainland and has enough to say he should have by now

Looking at your mares they are good tough and sound families so id want to continue that trait and not introduce unsoundness
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slowdown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2018 at 9:28pm
thanks for that Bushy. yes he is an impressive looking stallion. I saw him at the stallion parade again the other day and he looks very strong. I just want to see what he throws first and if they go as good as he looks I will have a mare over there. I hope he goes for the McCulloch family. they have contributed so much to racing in Tasmania. Cheers Slowdown
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote goldey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jul 2018 at 12:54am
I really like Mawingo for Sh'bourne Kahlua, best match in Tassie IMHO , one starter for a creditable 4th to The Closer yesterday, good luck.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slowdown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jul 2018 at 9:42am
thanks Goldey, i am really looking forward to watching them perform before i can send one to him. yes i like the match too. lots of good stuff on Tesio. Sadlers and Shirley Heights in there too. has been an incredible cross in the early days up close. 
Star - trialling tuesday,Rebel - racing in 3 or 4 weeks, Attie - spelling, Lionel - first prep, Brandy - spelling.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jul 2018 at 11:20am
Interesting (in Malandrina) the Pride of Kellina cross to Todman in Clangalang.  You also get the 1w cross of Rousseau's Dream and Alycidon and Copenhagen and Bellotto.  But as you said slow to mature.  Then again that can also depend on the female line.

But then again you 5h blood in Malandrina has a cross to Needs Further (Fairy King), Alpine Eagle (Sadler's Wells & Nureyev) or Wordsmith (Perugino) so she is the easiest to mate of the two mares.  Her line has so many ideas on what works and the cross back does.  Canny Lad and 1-n & 13a mixes work.
Well you don't have all that down there but you already have a 1-n and a 13a line in your mare.  And with Needs Further you have the Danehill/Bletchingly cross which gave us Canny Lad.  

Bushy as with the Canny Lad cross many of the Danehill crosses included a mare by him.  This is not on with a stallion who has something incorrect in the legs.  THey have done it so many times with the Canny Lad mares that I could scream.  No closer that 3x3 and these two mares are from sound stock but if either is over at the knees then you wouldn't do it.

The Needs Further, Alpine Eagle & Wordsmith/Sh'Bourne Kahlua also gives you the Bold Reason/Never Bend cross which I also like to see.  So really you then have to decide which stallion has produced the best results so far at stud.  You could wait to see if Alpine Eagle gets sound stock.  You can also get that cross in Mawingo through his dam.  Also the 1-s female line has produced the sire of Crawford who was a good stakes class horse from this family back in the 80's.  So he is one to keep your eyes on for Malandrina.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slowdown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jul 2018 at 3:05pm
as usual thanks kindly for your input too Furious. some really good knowledge shared there. i dont know how you remember it all. great advice thankyou. 
Star - trialling tuesday,Rebel - racing in 3 or 4 weeks, Attie - spelling, Lionel - first prep, Brandy - spelling.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Progold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 2018 at 10:23pm
Sh'bourne Kahlua is from a wonderful female line with four straight stakes winners in her direct female line which is something that you don't often see.  It is from an overseas family, and of course this always raises issues as to whether the idea is to breed to some of the influences that have worked internationally, or trying to breed to local influences.  In the case of this mare, Alpine Eagle appeals as a quality mating, although by an unproven stallion.  The mating sees duplications of both Shirley Heights, who we see has a duplication in turn of the stallion, Blandford, and Kris, who sees his grand damsire as Crepello, who also hails from the Blandford line.  Blandford, and in particular, Crepello, have had significant impact in the pedigrees of some of the family stakes winners, and Dusty Dollar is interestingly a daughter of Kris.  Based on the original criteria, this is certainly the mating that I would be pursuing.

Malandrina it is fair to say, is from a far more moderate female family.  The most recent stakes winners are Daasrae and Sherona, again both in the direct female line and both winners of the Toowoomba Cup.  Before that we have to go back to a mare called Carbelle by Carbine, who produced four stakes winners including full siblings Ebullition (Caulfield Stakes and Newmarket) and Effervescence (Coongy).  Without going into the full story behind my reasoning, I suggest that a more aggressive breeding strategy is probably required with this mare.  Needs Further has the close duplication of Danehill similar to Phalaris in the pedigree of Daasrae but certainly not as strong a pedigree as that female.  It is always a concern to me that a duplication like this is through a son like Brilliant Leader.  I think I can safely say that stallion is not among the best sons of Danehill we have ever seen, so we are effectively breeding in part to something of a weakness in the pedigree.  Nevertheless, the stallion pool in Tasmania is not very deep, so it is probably a mating that is as good as we will find there at present.  A left field option not that far on the mainland is Onemorenomore, a solid enough stallion that in my view probably offers a better than average chance of producing a winner from the family.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slowdown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2018 at 6:16pm
thanks Progold for your research and input . really appreciated. it is great to hear your thoughts on Kahlua and her family as her race record doesn't indicate how good her trainers thought she could have been and her half sister sh'bourne spirit probably shows the family can still throw good performers.
Great to hear that you like the female line. We continue to have fillies along this line with two fillies from Kahlua and a Spirit's first foal being a Needs Further filly.
The dam River Doll at around 24 lives a great life here with a handfeed and hay everyday, regular trims,teeth etc. very close to my favourite horse.


Malandrina as you say is probably a good performer from a pretty weak family. he first won one race and I have two Wordsmith geldings with one very close to racing. time will tell with her progeny .

A lot to consider. thanks for your time and input. Slowdown
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Progold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2018 at 8:33pm
One more thought on Malandrina because she is a difficult prospect.  We used to talk a lot about mating plans for mares, but now this seems to be out of the window.  The mating with Clangalang is largely an outcross, but overall a lot of the influences seem fairly compatible.  There is a chance of producing a reasonable racing prospect, but the real focus is to breed a filly, who then would become a much better broodmare prospect giving plenty of options when choosing a suitable mate.  Just have a look at the success of Bellotto as a broodmare sire, and there will be an opportunity to breed with many of Tasmania's future stallion prospects.  Malandrina's daughter by Savoire Vivre would herself be relatively restricted in choice of mates.
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Think outside the box.

Bring them to the mainland. You won't beat your rivals
fishing from the same pond.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slowdown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2018 at 12:28pm
Originally posted by Progold Progold wrote:

One more thought on Malandrina because she is a difficult prospect.  We used to talk a lot about mating plans for mares, but now this seems to be out of the window.  The mating with Clangalang is largely an outcross, but overall a lot of the influences seem fairly compatible.  There is a chance of producing a reasonable racing prospect, but the real focus is to breed a filly, who then would become a much better broodmare prospect giving plenty of options when choosing a suitable mate.  Just have a look at the success of Bellotto as a broodmare sire, and there will be an opportunity to breed with many of Tasmania's future stallion prospects.  Malandrina's daughter by Savoire Vivre would herself be relatively restricted in choice of mates.
certainly worth some thought Progold.  The family history concerns me a bit but the mare had plenty of ability if comparing to your average tas  race horse. plenty to ponder.Cheers Slowdown
Star - trialling tuesday,Rebel - racing in 3 or 4 weeks, Attie - spelling, Lionel - first prep, Brandy - spelling.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slowdown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2018 at 12:28pm
Originally posted by Aurelius Aurelius wrote:

Think outside the box.

Bring them to the mainland. You won't beat your rivals
fishing from the same pond.
perhaps if i can win the new 20 grand bonus . might be able to afford it then Aurelius. Cheers
Star - trialling tuesday,Rebel - racing in 3 or 4 weeks, Attie - spelling, Lionel - first prep, Brandy - spelling.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote goldey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2018 at 11:32pm
Toorak Toff enters the discussions, I quite like the distant matches here largely an outcross and has had limited success via Iconoclasm,. largely a flop on the mainland.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote take2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2018 at 9:23pm
nice ped  5 crosses of mumtaz mahal in 7 gens in Sh'bourne Kahlua, alpine eagle for mine, brings other topline mares into the equation, namely natalma and special, thowi in lalun, and alpine eagle from the hot sadlers wells male line


Edited by take2 - 03 Oct 2018 at 9:31pm
dont put mouth in gear before engaging brain

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slowdown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2018 at 7:06am
Cheers Take2. she has been covered by Alpine Eagle. just waiting to see if she has taken. her half sister sh'bourne spirit will foal an Alpine Eagle this month. from the foals by him I have seen they look nice types.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slowdown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2018 at 7:07am
Originally posted by slowdown slowdown wrote:

Originally posted by Progold Progold wrote:

One more thought on Malandrina because she is a difficult prospect.  We used to talk a lot about mating plans for mares, but now this seems to be out of the window.  The mating with Clangalang is largely an outcross, but overall a lot of the influences seem fairly compatible.  There is a chance of producing a reasonable racing prospect, but the real focus is to breed a filly, who then would become a much better broodmare prospect giving plenty of options when choosing a suitable mate.  Just have a look at the success of Bellotto as a broodmare sire, and there will be an opportunity to breed with many of Tasmania's future stallion prospects.  Malandrina's daughter by Savoire Vivre would herself be relatively restricted in choice of mates.
certainly worth some thought Progold.  The family history concerns me a bit but the mare had plenty of ability if comparing to your average tas  race horse. plenty to ponder.Cheers Slowdown
Clangalang has returned to the mainland. not sure where. Cheers Slowdown
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slowdown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2018 at 7:14am
thanks to everyone for their input too. Alpine Eagle got the nod in the end but I still will be watching what Mawingo's do and of course Needs Further is throwing some good ones. I already have a filly by him from her so and she has been broken in. should be back in work shortly. What happens there will influence my next choice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slowdown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2018 at 9:03pm
one jump - triplets. one squeezed and a small one right beside the squeezed one. hopefully leaving one left by the end of the week.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2018 at 4:41pm
Not ideal.  Fingers crossed for you Slowdown.
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