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Afros View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Afros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 11:07am
They let a maiden in a few years ago, that should have destroyed the idea of leaving ANY horse out.

Before djebel chimes in, yes I get it that Shamus Award wasn't maiden class even if he had yet to win a race prior to that Cox Plate but if you present your race as the WFA Championship it's a bit of a joke to allow a horse that hasn't managed to win a race in. Of course one could be cynical and suggest that if Trap For Fools was an entire they may have let him in...
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Tlazolteotl View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 11:33am
It's hard to know if the MVRC has an actual policy written down on Cox Plate entry. Most years they are desperate to get a full field no matter what no-hopers make up the numbers but once in a blue moon they get picky.Confused

Not that winning this year's dreadful Mackinnon has anything to do with a horse's suitability for a CP start.

"Even the things that I believe in the most, I doubt.”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 11:37am
Originally posted by Afros Afros wrote:

They let a maiden in a few years ago, that should have destroyed the idea of leaving ANY horse out.

Before djebel chimes in, yes I get it that Shamus Award wasn't maiden class even if he had yet to win a race prior to that Cox Plate but if you present your race as the WFA Championship it's a bit of a joke to allow a horse that hasn't managed to win a race in. Of course one could be cynical and suggest that if Trap For Fools was an entire they may have let him in...


Despite being a maiden Shamus Award wss and is a far superior horse to Trap For Fools.
The Autumn Sun Vs Winx

STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 11:41am
I think people are overstating how poor the Mackinnon was.

Irish and Victoria Derby winners. Blair House who ran Banbatl to a lip.

There were 6 group 1 winners in the race.
The Autumn Sun Vs Winx

STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Prince of Penzance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 11:51am
I agree, nothing wrong with the field yesterday. They were some pretty good horses
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Tlazolteotl View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 11:56am
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

I think people are overstating how poor the Mackinnon was.

Irish and Victoria Derby winners. Blair House who ran Banbatl to a lip.

There were 6 group 1 winners in the race.


TFF would have 6th at best in Cox Plate- 7th if KWD didn't break down.
"Even the things that I believe in the most, I doubt.”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 12:04pm
Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

I think people are overstating how poor the Mackinnon was.

Irish and Victoria Derby winners. Blair House who ran Banbatl to a lip.

There were 6 group 1 winners in the race.


TFF would have 6th at best in Cox Plate- 7th if KWD didn't break down.



The Matt Chapman school of handicapping I have Trap For Fools winning the Plate by 3 lengths.


The Autumn Sun Vs Winx

STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 12:53pm
Will be interesting to see what Timeform rating Trap For Fools gets for his Mackinnon win:


Timeform Ratings: WA Horses - Mackinnon Winners: Past 20 Years

2018: Trap For Fools: ???

2016: Awesome Rock: 122

2009: Scenic Shot: 123

1999: Rogan Josh: 115
It's always good when a WA horse does well in the Eastern States or abroad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 3:14pm
Just in...


Timeform Ratings: WA Horses - Mackinnon Winners: Past 20 Years

2018: Trap For Fools: 118

2016: Awesome Rock: 122

2009: Scenic Shot: 123

1999: Rogan Josh: 115
It's always good when a WA horse does well in the Eastern States or abroad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kavg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 5:27pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

I think people are overstating how poor the Mackinnon was.

Irish and Victoria Derby winners. Blair House who ran Banbatl to a lip.

There were 6 group 1 winners in the race.


TFF would have 6th at best in Cox Plate- 7th if KWD didn't break down.



The Matt Chapman school of handicapping I have Trap For Fools winning the Plate by 3 lengths.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Enabled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 5:28pm
How far would he have beaten Winx by in the CP if allowed to run Jamal?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 5:49pm
Originally posted by Enabled Enabled wrote:

How far would he have beaten Winx by in the CP if allowed to run Jamal?



He doesn't beat Winx and there is no more to be said on that. It is quite obvious what the result would be.
It's always good when a WA horse does well in the Eastern States or abroad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shawy38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 6:18pm
He would’ve been beaten around 5 lengths by Winx.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Enabled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 7:12pm
Would have been a sight leading strong.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kavg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 2018 at 6:46pm
It would have been good to see TFF in cox plate setting a fast tempo. Would have set it up for a more impressive win by winx. As the others would have been feeling the pinch, she would have been cruising and won easily.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 2018 at 6:55pm
The maths says he'd have beaten Winx by a good 3 to 4 lengths.
The Autumn Sun Vs Winx

STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Overseer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 2018 at 9:06pm
Darren Weir and Jarrod Maclean are the best trainers to ever be licenced in Australia. They can take good horses from Group 1 trainers like Lindsay Smith and Grahame Begg and put lengths on them. Smith and Begg should apply for a job with them to learn what they have been doing wrong all these years. Perhaps they could even sleep at the stables and ride in the floats with the horses to the races. Land of Plenty and Trap For Fools are just a few examples of how horses can improve under Darren and Jarrod's "care".
Watch the commission go on
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote monty1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 2018 at 9:09pm
Is this post tongue in cheek Overseer?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr Grieves Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 2018 at 10:12pm
Originally posted by Overseer Overseer wrote:

Darren Weir and Jarrod Maclean are the best trainers to ever be licenced in Australia. They can take good horses from Group 1 trainers like Lindsay Smith and Grahame Begg and put lengths on them. Smith and Begg should apply for a job with them to learn what they have been doing wrong all these years. Perhaps they could even sleep at the stables and ride in the floats with the horses to the races. Land of Plenty and Trap For Fools are just a few examples of how horses can improve under Darren and Jarrod's "care".


The best part Overseer, is how after both being caught cheating several years back, they said "This is not for us" and turned over a new leaf.  Very heartwarming!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2018 at 12:50am
Trap The Fools outstanding run in the Course Record MV Cup should have been enough for him to get a run in anything.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2018 at 7:49am
Originally posted by maccamax maccamax wrote:

Trap The Fools outstanding run in the Course Record MV Cup should have been enough for him to get a run in anything.


LOL
"Even the things that I believe in the most, I doubt.”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2018 at 9:16am
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

The maths says he'd have beaten Winx by a good 3 to 4 lengths.


How so? Surely Winx wins?
It's always good when a WA horse does well in the Eastern States or abroad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2018 at 7:29pm
Trap For Fools had a Timeform rating of 118 for the Mackinnon win, however his official rating for the Mackinnon win was 110. They must use different methods? 110 seems low for a G1 WFA win?
It's always good when a WA horse does well in the Eastern States or abroad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote speedingaway Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2018 at 9:21pm
Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

Trap For Fools had a Timeform rating of 118 for the Mackinnon win, however his official rating for the Mackinnon win was 110. They must use different methods? 110 seems low for a G1 WFA win?


That's just his VIC handicapping rating. He's effectively gone up 2-1/2 kilos from his previous rating.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2018 at 10:24pm
Originally posted by speedingaway speedingaway wrote:

Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

Trap For Fools had a Timeform rating of 118 for the Mackinnon win, however his official rating for the Mackinnon win was 110. They must use different methods? 110 seems low for a G1 WFA win?


That's just his VIC handicapping rating. He's effectively gone up 2-1/2 kilos from his previous rating.


But its in pounds not kilos? This is where things get confusing for me.
It's always good when a WA horse does well in the Eastern States or abroad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shawy38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2018 at 7:33am
One is a handicap rating, the other is a timeform rating
Two completely different things - nothing to do with pounds or kilos.
You are making it harder than it needs to be.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bonfield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2018 at 7:33pm
Originally posted by Overseer Overseer wrote:

Darren Weir and Jarrod Maclean are the best trainers to ever be licenced in Australia. They can take good horses from Group 1 trainers like Lindsay Smith and Grahame Begg and put lengths on them. Smith and Begg should apply for a job with them to learn what they have been doing wrong all these years. Perhaps they could even sleep at the stables and ride in the floats with the horses to the races. Land of Plenty and Trap For Fools are just a few examples of how horses can improve under Darren and Jarrod's "care".

I think you may have gone a bridge too far saying best trainers ever in Australia, however I do rate them both very highly. None I would rate higher at the moment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bonfield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2018 at 7:39pm
On my ratings TFF would have run a clear 4th in Cox Plate. He deserved a spot. The committee should only ballot out horses that will be disgraced in the race. TFF's form was easily good enough to warrant a spot in Cox Plate. In fact one can argue he would have enhanced it by being the natural frontrunner. Waller would then not have sacrificed D'Argento as pacemaker for Winx.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gee Gee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2018 at 8:11pm
The Moonee Valley race club Committee should ballot themselves out. Fools
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shawy38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2018 at 9:13pm
Back to this horse, he has returned to Perth.
Will be running in the Kingston Town
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