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Dr E View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr E Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Men
    Posted: 18 May 2018 at 1:43pm
LOL ... that's gross ... she even kissed a ranga!Tongue
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!
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acacia alba View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2018 at 1:10pm
Male victims of what, Dr E  ?Confused  A girl has to kiss a lot of frogs before she finds her prince, you know !
Just as Meghan.Wink

animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr E Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 11:31pm
I hope you don't mean to be sexist aa ... this could be very hurtful to a lot of male victims ...
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 12:12am
Not really great , to be honest. 
animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr E Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 11:43pm
Back on topic folks!

So, just how good are men!!!Thumbs Up
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 11:40pm
Lots more very sad stuff coming out about this .    Just cant begin to wonder where the grandfather,s mind was.   What flipped him over ?? 
Or where the Dad,s mind was when he talked to media,,,,very odd what he said.
Cant imagine how the grandfather managed to carry out the killings.
The whole thing is so very strange and sad.     Those kids,,,,did they see their Grandad coming for them,,,,so so sad and aweful to contemplate.   
Adults killing adults is going on every day.  But killing 4 kids ??   Its beyond belief.

animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2018 at 5:01pm
Women always want equal opportunity , but the men are winning this one hands down Shocked
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr E Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2018 at 1:57pm
Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:



That is outrageous!Shocked

If women don't lift their game soon, we will just have to forget merit and introduce a quota system - come on girls, you can do better than thatDead!
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2018 at 10:54am
The Stats are correct .    Men at the top of the list in EVERYTHING.

No1 of course = Who has the most Brains .
       
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2018 at 10:50am
Yeah , right !  My wife made me do it !  She nagged me to death .  What a cop out !
If thats the case every second man would be running amok , killing his family !Cry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Isaac soloman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2018 at 10:32am
abc interview with a neighbor, who asked the grandmother how she was, who said they were having trouble with the grandfather, the week before the tragedy. obviously the grandmother was going too save her man....

my psyc hat would say he was dominated by strong, overbearing women, probably beginning with his own mother, then he married like, a woman who is going to save the world, and protect her man from the bad stuff.

in the end the man is emasculated, and something gives....

is probably why the police say may never know why he did it. they are not psyc's and dont want to give a reason, because not their field.

will predict its the women in his life. but who is ever going to admit that!
especially in this day and age....




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JudgeHolden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2018 at 7:45am
People love to point out demographic over-representations in crime statistics amongst say, racial or religious groups. But this is the mother (or make that father) of all over-representations. And as far as I can tell, it’s been across cultures and throughout history.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2018 at 7:38am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2018 at 12:12am
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

So she admits she does not know him one little bit yet she can categorically say he was not a good bloke.

None of us as yet know why he did this unthinkable crime, none of us know what demons he was carrying.

Her article is fine wilst she is saying the patriarchal model is all wrong, I am happy to go along with that, but she can not be certain that is what drove him to this atrocity.



Who can ever know what drove him to do this ?   He was just a complete whack job.
And those who want to say he wasnt, or make excuses for him, or find reasons for what he did, are strange and strange people. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr E Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2018 at 11:21pm
Fantastic news about Clementine Ford - Lifeline has "pulled the plug" on her!Clap

I hope she's on fire one day, and a group of incontinent men ignore her!Big smile

'It’s hard enough for men to call a helpline without facing this':

Campaign to remove Clementine Ford as the speaker of a Lifeline event for tweeting 'all men must die'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5672447/Campaign-remove-Clementine-Ford-speaker-Lifeline-event-tweeting-Kill-men.html#ixzz5FTvxcC5d 
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2018 at 9:41pm
So she admits she does not know him one little bit yet she can categorically say he was not a good bloke.

None of us as yet know why he did this unthinkable crime, none of us know what demons he was carrying.

Her article is fine wilst she is saying the patriarchal model is all wrong, I am happy to go along with that, but she can not be certain that is what drove him to this atrocity.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2018 at 9:34pm
Originally posted by acacia alba acacia alba wrote:

For most murderers ,  99.9999% of their lives they are not murderers.  Does that mean most murderers are good blokes ??  Confused


No.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2018 at 9:34pm
If you can not see what I am on about you are clearly not a thinker.



STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2018 at 9:24pm
Any way, in this case it seems likely that the whole family situation was a bit culty and kookoo.
"She's going through a growth phase." - GW
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2018 at 9:22pm
Good to get that clarified, AA. And that article from Gay has some truth to it I guess, for some men raised in a toxic male culture, not that I personally understand that way of thinking. And djebel, what in the great wide F are you on about? I guess you (and the father's bizarre comments) give proof to Gay's article.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2018 at 8:40pm
For most murderers ,  99.9999% of their lives they are not murderers.  Does that mean most murderers are good blokes ??  Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2018 at 8:34pm
For 99.9999%+ of this persons life he was not a murderer.



STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2018 at 8:33pm
When I have the time I will read that article but having read the first few paragraphs I'd like to say, He just might have been a good bloke.

When a person commits such an atrocity should his/her whole life and being be defined by such an act ?

It will be in the wider community and the dustbin of history but it clearly does not tell the whole story.



STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

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The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2018 at 8:32pm
Originally posted by stayer stayer wrote:

I don't get the thread title. Please tell me you don't mean that the "first thing that pops into your head" when hearing of a murder is "men"?? That'd be a bit weird. Sorry if I misread it?

And AA, apart from the issue of over-diagnosis of Autism (Spectrum Disorder), why on earth would anyone "pull the plug" after 2 autistic kids??

The father's comments were quite bizarre. (So were the names of the kids.) Seems like a very odd family altogether. Wouldn't be surprised if there's more to the story.


By pull the plug, I meant you would stop having kids.  ( Not go out and kill them . )  I dont have kids but I have friends with  autistic kids,,,,more than one lot of friends,  and while they are loveable kids they are hard and constant work, so imagine what having 4 would be like.  Why would you just keep on having more, after the first 2 are autistic ?  And in every case with the people I have known thru life, just the one child has led to marriage break downs, so imagine what the stress and work of 4 would do to any relationship.    And yes, Dad,s remarks were quite bizarre .  He said the grand father had been working up to this for years !!  OMG  !  No wonder he was fighting for custody.   As to those names Ermm How on earth do people dream some of these names up ?  Do they make them up out of a series of letters or where do they get them from ??  Confused
How many of these family murder suicides do you hear of that are commited by women ?   I cant recall one just at the moment, but I can think of quite a few all done by men.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2018 at 8:26pm
This may help explain his weird choice of title Confused

The problem with the 'good bloke' narrative

By Clementine Ford

The local community at Margaret River is understandably in shock after one of its residents, Peter Miles, allegedly murdered his wife, daughter and four grandchildren in the early hours of Friday morning.

While Cynda Miles was a well known figure in the town, and her daughter and grandchildren were well liked, reports published after the massacre seem to indicate that less was known about Miles. Despite this, the narrative of the "Good Bloke Under Pressure" has risen up in the wake of the homicide. As is typical in cases like this, “mental health” is being blamed.

In a press conference given by the children’s grieving father, Aaron Cockman said his former father-in-law was an “awesome man, before all this blew up”. By “this”, Cockman was presumably referring to his belief that family loss and illness had led Miles to desire an end to his life, but to also view it as necessary to “take out everyone because that will fix the whole problem”.

We can only hope it was the grief talking when he said of Miles, “If it wasn’t for him, I wouldn’t have Katrina, I wouldn’t have her kids. So it’s not some random guy off the street who’s taken them away from me – he gave them to me and now he’s taken them away. If it had to happen, there is no better person than that.”

Listen. Peter Miles and those like him are not Good Blokes, and they have to stop being described as such. This doesn’t mean they were incapable of doing good deeds.

Turning murderers into "Good Blokes" only reinforces an underlying community belief that there are circumstances in which men (and it’s always men, because nobody defends women who murder children or describes them as “awesome”) can be driven to this kind of response. That indeed the pressures of being a man can be so intense and suffocating that they feel they have no choice but to end the lives of everyone they’re "responsible" for.

Massacres become tragedies, victims’ names disappear into the swirl of commentary and all that’s remembered is that something awful happened but he was a Good Bloke at the end of the day and that, my friends, is perhaps the saddest part of all of this.

While Cynda Miles was a well known figure in the town, and her daughter and grandchildren were well liked, reports published after the massacre seem to indicate that less was known about Miles. Despite this, the narrative of the "Good Bloke Under Pressure" has risen up in the wake of the homicide. As is typical in cases like this, “mental health” is being blamed.

In a press conference given by the children’s grieving father, Aaron Cockman said his former father-in-law was an “awesome man, before all this blew up”. By “this”, Cockman was presumably referring to his belief that family loss and illness had led Miles to desire an end to his life, but to also view it as necessary to “take out everyone because that will fix the whole problem”.

We can only hope it was the grief talking when he said of Miles, “If it wasn’t for him, I wouldn’t have Katrina, I wouldn’t have her kids. So it’s not some random guy off the street who’s taken them away from me – he gave them to me and now he’s taken them away. If it had to happen, there is no better person than that.”

Listen. Peter Miles and those like him are not Good Blokes, and they have to stop being described as such. This doesn’t mean they were incapable of doing good deeds.

Turning murderers into "Good Blokes" only reinforces an underlying community belief that there are circumstances in which men (and it’s always men, because nobody defends women who murder children or describes them as “awesome”) can be driven to this kind of response. That indeed the pressures of being a man can be so intense and suffocating that they feel they have no choice but to end the lives of everyone they’re "responsible" for.

Massacres become tragedies, victims’ names disappear into the swirl of commentary and all that’s remembered is that something awful happened but he was a Good Bloke at the end of the day and that, my friends, is perhaps the saddest part of all of this.

This was an horrific act of violence. The framing of criminal acts like these as being somehow the result of depression or financial struggles or just a lack of appropriate emotional support cannot help but infect the circumstances with an air of sympathy and understanding. It’s dangerous to immediately valorise the people responsible for this kind of behaviour. It is an act of valorisation to focus on the so-called "awesome" traits of someone who has just slaughtered their entire family. More importantly, it’s a valorisation of traditional notions of masculinity to regard a homicide like this as a father and grandfather’s misguided way of protecting his family from the stress of his own suicidal ideation.

In the case of this homicide in particular, the repeated references to the children’s autism invites an additional layer of ableism into the picture. Some people already find it far too easy to empathise with the idea of a depressed man (who almost always conveniently happens to be white, middle class and heterosexual) who sees familial murder as his only way out of crushing anxiety. But when one or more of those family members have a disability, the narrative shifts even further into the obscene as people begin to say things like, “Well, it was probably for the best.”

When Geoff Hunt murdered his wife and three children in Lockhart in 2014, much was made of the fact that Kim Hunt had recently acquired a disability in a car accident. In this case, the “quiet grain farmer” was described as having suffered “considerable pressure and tension” following the crash, and that police believe this might have been what caused him “to snap”.

Much of the public’s commentary following the murders was sympathetic to Hunt. Again, feminists were urged to consider the plight of mental health and not to use this as a way to demonise men. If refusing to discuss domestic homicide as anything other than an incomprehensible act of violence with no excuse is "demonising men", then we have a long way to go.

If there is any demonising to be done, it is of the structural system called patriarchy that informs men – even "good" ones – that they shoulder the responsibility for familial care and order. In the case of Geoff Hunt, the coroner’s report later found "it was the result of an egocentric delusion that his wife and children would be better off dying than living without him”.

Perhaps most damning of all though, is the message being sent by this narrative to the men who are active perpetrators of family violence.

These men don’t consider themselves bad and their friends would probably agree with them. The Good Bloke narrative reinforces to these men that they aren’t truly in control of their actions, that they’re pushed into it by external factors.

I don’t know if Peter Miles was a nice man. I don’t know what he was like behind the closed doors of his family’s property. I don’t know what kind of grandfather he was, or how he treated Cynda and Katrina. I don’t know what kind of personal struggles or crises he was wrestling with or whether he was mentally unwell or depressed.

What I know is that he wasn’t a Good Bloke, and all attempts to frame him that way should be strongly resisted. Perhaps it’s just the dogmatic feminist in me speaking, but I feel like slaughtering your whole family has to be where we draw the line at being honoured with that title.

https://amp.smh.com.au/lifestyle/life-and-relationships/the-problem-with-the-good-bloke-narrative-20180514-p4zf6r.html?__twitter_impression=true

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2018 at 7:44pm
Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

Originally posted by stayer stayer wrote:

I don't get the thread title. Please tell me you don't mean that the "first thing that pops into your head" when hearing of a murder is "men"?? That'd be a bit weird. Sorry if I misread it?

And AA, apart from the issue of over-diagnosis of Autism (Spectrum Disorder), why on earth would anyone "pull the plug" after 2 autistic kids??

The father's comments were quite bizarre. (So were the names of the kids.) Seems like a very odd family altogether. Wouldn't be surprised if there's more to the story.


If there are ever exceptions to the rule I'll stop thinking it.Wink


You're thinking who did it ?



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote stayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2018 at 7:17pm
To be fair, I guess if Tlaz called the topic "men and guns" it would be a good topic worth discussing. It was just the comment about the "first thing that pops into your head" after a mass shooting being "men" that was a bit off. Who the hell thinks that way? Most first thoughts, I would have thought, are "bloody hell what kind of sicko does that?" Or "who is suffering because of this?" Maybe that's just me.

It definitely ain't "Men." I hope.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RED HUNTER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2018 at 7:05pm
Agree about THE MEN MEN TALITY

but

What kind of women would blow their kids up too......recently one on Sunday,one today...Ans...radical Islam
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Isaac soloman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2018 at 7:03pm
what of the Indonesian family, mum and dad, who strapped bombs to their young children and blew themselves up in churches. 

has happened twice now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2018 at 6:51pm
So you meant that? Okey dokey.
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