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RED HUNTER View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote RED HUNTER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Equine science site
    Posted: 01 Jul 2013 at 4:21pm
Looks interesting for trainers.

I hope some will comment.


story about ANIMAL KINGDOM's failure
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Gay3 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2013 at 4:38pm
A couple of us have mentioned Bill Presseys' site & added links, that is the one RED Smile
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RED HUNTER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2013 at 4:39pm
How do you rate it GAY because most of this is above my head.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Munga Rangi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2013 at 4:50pm
Good find Red Thumbs Up
Caveat emptor
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2013 at 4:51pm
I like it because he basically draws attention to the lack of hard training horses receive these days, compared to 50+ years ago & the fact times haven't decreased. He advises clients on science based training programs, similar to Allan Davie here (Mick Kent, D. Weir etc.) using HR & lactate testing to assess fitness. The beauty of the above, if conversant in it is the fact you know when the horse needs more/less work, is peaking or is the slightest bit off colour or sore, the HR doesn't lie but warns several days before an actual lameness can be detected Smile
http://horseracetraining.com/home/
Allan Davie above & another Aussie, David Evans  http://davidevansscience.blogspot.com.au/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2013 at 4:51pm
Gay, They are interesting comments regarding Animal Kingdoms warm up. Could it be that if you want your horse to settle better they should be allowed to work harder go to the starting gates or am I misinterpreting his comments ?

My Kingdom for an Appropriate Pre-Race Warmup

Posted by bpressey

Animal Kingdom’s recent loss at Royal Ascot highlighted many of the vast differences between thoroughbred racing in the UK versus the US. Many are well known such as pace and turf topography, but a few only appear if you catch a certain glimpse of TV footage or are lucky enough to attend a UK race in person. Even better, if you can ‘spy’ on a training session over the hills at Newmarket!

First off, the 2 video clips above. The top one shows the pre-race activities of #13 Elusive Kate, who would go on to finish 4th. This is the only warmup I caught other than that of Animal Kingdom, the ‘star’ of video two. Note how she blasts out of pretty much a walk and powers down the turf at a very decent clip. In my experience, the vast majority of UK based runners warm up in such a manner – whether the race be a 5F or 10F affair.

Contrast with the pre-race jog of Animal Kingdom, with pony accompaniment in the second video clip. Which do you feel is a more appropriate warmup for racing a mile on an uphill turf course?

I’ve talked about this before; even in Japan over dirt the warm-ups are quite extensive; also where no Lasix is used to combat EIPH over a hard dirt surface:

http://thoroedge.wordpress.com/2011/11/13/video-proof-of-why-thoroughbreds-bleed-in-the-us-and-not-in-japan/

(in hindsight, ‘proof’ was not the correct word to use in this post, perhaps ‘evidence’ would have been more accurate)

Next, thanks to some data compiled from a Group 1 winner training at Newmarket a few years back, we also know what a typical ‘speedwork’ day looks like across the pond:

newmarket

That’s 2 steep uphill climbs in 15-16sec/furlong fractions totaling nearly 8F, separated by a 12-15 minute walk down one hill and over to the next. I am told Newmarket-based trainees do this TWICE weekly when in a maintenance phase during a racing campaign. This is Equine Interval Training done right.

US-based horses such as Animal Kingdom don’t condition in such a manner, even at Fair Hill in Maryland. After a stirring 10F win in Dubai and several thousand travel miles, did Graham Motion take his foot off the gas a bit? Don’t get me wrong, I know AK had some stiff uphill gallops in his race prep, but to this extent, and twice a week? Doubtful – I expect the once weekly 4F effort was the prescription.

You simply can’t go to a UK course and beat a bunch of closers at their own game, not without similar physiological preparations. The only hope Animal Kingdom had was squashed as Velasquez restrained an eager soon-to-be-stud from taking the early lead. Quite possibly he could have set an aggressive pace that would have sapped the closing kick of the others who rarely witness such a strategy. Alas, we’ll never know.

Like Zenyatta, Animal Kingdom now heads to stud off of a disappointing loss. A loss that quite possibly could have been avoided with a more aggressive preparation in the minutes and weeks leading up to their respective final dances:

http://thoroedge.wordpress.com/2010/11/06/traditional-horsemanship-gets-zenyatta-beat/




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2013 at 5:11pm
I'm the least scientifically minded person to ask but am trying to learn Smile. When they get to about evens, the spleen 'dumps' a massive amount of red blood cells into the system. These are the 'flight' response, escape predator mechanics which, without the warmup, are released in the early stages of a race. All equine physiologists agree they should be already in the system pre race in order to be useful. Google 'spleen dump', it's the same for all athletes. This is my biggest hang up with greyhound racing i.e. they come out of a warm kennel, walk around a ring & around to the boxes, in the cold usually (night)& are then expected to perform without pulling up injured Angry
I remember an old punting motto was to back the horse who'd 'escaped' before the race & expect it's down to the above fact Smile
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Run For Fun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2013 at 5:30pm
Totally agree Gay.
 
Provided ours are sufficiently seasoned am totally p1ssed if they don't warm up in serious fashion after going onto the track before a race.
It's hard to soar with eagles...

Cheers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RED HUNTER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2013 at 5:34pm
Does this mean that Gai's technique of making horses jump and run,in training and race, to reap benefits?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2013 at 5:43pm
The science says they can only run at their maximum for a certain distance or so many seconds & I can't bloody remember but it's not for very long hence when they go like Hell early, they can't finish off. Any horse can lead & win if it's only required to be at its' top for a short while i.e. has a high cruising speed relevant to the class of race.
Treadmillers in Vic that I know of are Kent, Hayes, Weir, Matt Williams, Smerdon & all these would be using lactate testing. Jeremy Gask in England has a horse who's trained almost exclusively on it due to pulling so hard when ridden  http://jeremygask.com/training-on-the-treadmill/  it's a 5 min clip & on the same site is the latest in HR/GPS technology http://jeremygask.com/total-performance-data/
I think many will find it extremely interesting Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Docker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2013 at 8:40pm
Any thoughts on gallops on the morning of a race? remember reading that it was common at one point Bart Cummings uded to do it on occasions was always amazed that they would do it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RED HUNTER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2013 at 11:11pm
Bjorn Baker is a fan of morning raceday gallops too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2013 at 8:27am
Noel Kelly was notorious for it i.e. dash up a furlong or 2 with the sweat rugs on, always when it was 'on the go' Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RED HUNTER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2013 at 11:17am
Gay 3 was on the mark.

This is what PRESSEY stated when observing raceday at San  Isidoro,Argentina.

Quote:

  1. Horses often breeze strongly an eighth or so in front of the grandstand during the post parade, roughly 10 mins before entering the gate – THIS IS MY FAVORITE PART AS THE SPLEEN IS EMPTIED AND ACTS AS A NATURAL BLOOD DOPING PERFORMANCE ENHANCER.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RED HUNTER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2013 at 11:18am
I think we need to see more of this action on TV rather than the parade.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RED HUNTER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2013 at 11:22am
Here's another good one...one of so many I presume

Quote:

Every time your colt’s heart beats during a morning gallop, how far does he travel?
If it’s 6 feet, you are never going to win a race with him, time to cut bait and save yourself the aggravation. If it’s 14 feet, don’t think of selling because you are going to be fishing at the stakes level.

We call this the Thoroughbred Efficiency Score in feet per beat: (Distance in feet)/(time in sec)/(avg. heart rate) x 60

(For example: 660feet/22/165 = 10.91) – 6 feet up to 14 feet is the range of possible outcomes

70-80% of all energy in a TB race is aerobic in nature, meaning with oxygen, even during 6F ‘sprints’. This is your cruising speed as is very predictive of your ultimate success, or failure.

Think of a human miler who races for approx 4 min vs our Derby colt running for 2 min.

If you take 2 humans who can each run a 4 min/mile, the winner will be the one in practice who can accomplish more quarter mile intervals in :50sec – as in a competitive race he will have more physiological strength to count on in trying to hit 3:55. Because of the nature of equine conditioning this is not safe to do, so we need an onboard HR/GPS monitor to gauge what is going on internally, without running him to death via repeated intervals.

All horses can gallop a furlong in 15-25 seconds, but the amount of aerobic fuel required to do so differs greatly. And when you stretch them out to a race of 6-10F in 11-12 second splits – the one who is more metabolically efficient will excel as he will go the furthest before fatigue sets in.

Please look for me this September at the Pedigree and Genetics Symposium in Lexington where I will be giving a presentation on the intersection of genetic expression and real world measures of metabolic efficiency. The genesis for this idea comes from The Genetics of the Horse by Ann Bowling and Anatoly Ruvinsky, most notably pages 458-460:

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RED HUNTER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2013 at 11:26am
and...this one

Quote

“He’ll push a horse to a level, and then hold it there until he adapts. It might be off in its food or have some filling in its legs, but he’ll just decide to keep it at that level. After another run or two it’ll suddenly start eating, or the filling will go down. Sometimes it doesn’t and he has to back right off or send it to the paddock, but he’s a genius at knowing which ones to push. He’s not often wrong. Tommy calls it the ‘sound barrier’. He pushed them and if they take it and eat up and go on, they’re the ones at might be champions. You can tell in June or July of their yearling year (which ends on Aug 1st in Australia). So they are not yet 2 year olds. If they go off their feed but do OK in a barrier trial, then they might be a useful horse. If they fall away, you might as well get rid of them.”

Quote from ‘Winning Trainers’ by Ross Staaden on TJ Smith, who won 33 consecutive training titles in Australia:

I will hold off on my opinion until a later date with a much more detailed post – but suffice it to say I don’t think there is one US based trainer who would continue training when a horse goes off his feed or gets filling in his legs, much less breeze 2-3x per week on a 2 year old. There is also not one US trainer who can boast 33 consecutive training titles. Sh!t, I have to add a disclaimer or I am going to get blasted with negative comments, so here goes:

*I understand that some horses can thrive under more work and some cannot. However, it seems the greatest trainer in Australian history saw fit to give each developing horse an intense workload similar to that recommended by Nunamaker at the New Bolton Center;http://horsetrainingscience.blogspot.com/2010/08/ideal-2-year-old-training-program.html ,observe the results, and only then make a decision on whom to push forward with, and whom to back off on.

In contrast, many US based trainers don’t take that risk – they simply go easy on everyone, hence the common 1.5 mile gallops and 4F breezes every 7-10 days. What I often hear is that young horses are just not psychologically ready for that kind of regimen, but TJ Smith didn’t let that stop him. You can argue with my blog posts, but you can’t argue with his success. Triple Crown winners of the past breezed a mile between the Derby and Preakness, even when those 2 races were just a week apart! – This year, all will get 2 weeks off and the most anyone will do is a 4F cakewalk, many others will get nothing – and the streak will continue.

…..

Donn Handicap Picks (in order): Morning Line, Rule, Giant Oak, I Want Revenge, Square Eddie, Fly Down, Ron the Greek, Eldaafer, Hear Ye Hear Ye. My first shot at handicapping a race based on my theories. We’ll see what happens…most are conditioned the same, so it’s tough to find any perceived angles. If all goes well this weekend I will publish how I came up with this outcome, if not – well I’ll just refine my ‘system’ a bit and try again.

P.S. I don’t mean to overly criticize Uncle Mo and Todd Pletcher in earlier posts, but I have to use a current example in my comments. From those I know in the industry, they tell me that Mr. Pletcher is actually one of the most open-minded individuals when it comes to stuff like this. So, I will keep using him and his Derby hopefuls, hoping that one day he Googles himself, finds this blog, and gives me a shot at changing the way he looks at conditioning his fantastic stock. Uncle Mo is either the next Secretariat, or the next War Pass. We will soon have the answer, and I genuinely hope for the former for the sake of Mr. Repole, the connections, and the sport as a whole.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2013 at 12:23pm
I have the book "Winning Trainers" and just opened it for the first time in years.

It had a losing TAB ticket as a bookmark at the start of the Fred Kersley chapter.

The losing ticket was dated 18 October 2001 Moe race 8 #9 Bellonic.



STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bobsghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2013 at 6:43am
Some interesting comment on the work load prior to a race......the up a furlong and mr kelly styles used to at times have a secondary long gone practice involved....use of the pool on race morning is now the dominant "break the wind" procedure
Know a bloke who swore buy a 90 minute work after early breakfast........his record was also second to none in the area he raced
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