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Breeding Stayers ?

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djebel View Drop Down
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    Posted: 30 Mar 2013 at 5:41pm
Do people actually set out to breed stayers or do they attempt to breed high class horses who they hope will excel between 1600-2400m ?

Very few pedigrees of the worlds major staying races have dour pedigrees.

On this thread I intend posting the pedigrees of all the major staying event around the world.

These will be races of 2800m+

It will be interesting to see just how dour the pedigrees are.




STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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djebel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 2013 at 5:45pm


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kavg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 2013 at 5:48pm
Should be interesting Djebel and I think your hypothesis will prove correct but why start with the Adelaide cup winner as your 1st one- I thought we would be seeing winners of major staying races.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 2013 at 5:48pm
GOLD SHIP (JPN) Grey colt 2009  
Stay Gold
Bay or brown 1994
Sunday Silence
Brown 1986
Halo
Bay or brown 1969
Hail to Reason
Brown 1958
Turn-To
Nothirdchance
1951
1948
1-w
4-n
Cosmah
Bay 1953
Cosmic Bomb
Almahmoud
1944
1947
14-f
2-d
Wishing Well
Bay 1975
Understanding
Chestnut 1963
Promised Land
Pretty Ways
1954
1953
14-b
1-g
Mountain Flower
Bay 1964
Montparnasse
Edelweiss
1956
1959
19>
3-e
Golden Sash
Chestnut 1988
Dictus
Chestnut 1967
Sanctus
Bay 1960
Fine Top
Sanelta
1949
1954
8-d
16-a
Doronic
Chestnut 1960
Worden
Dulzetta
1949
1954
13-c
16-d
Dyna Sash
Bay 1979
Northern Taste
Chestnut 1971
Northern Dancer
Lady Victoria
1961
1962
2-d
14-c
Royal Sash
Bay 1966
Princely Gift
Sash of Honour
1951
1957
13-a
1-t
Point Flag
Bay 1998
Mejiro McQueen
Grey 1987
Mejiro Titan
Grey 1978
Mejiro Asama
Grey 1966
Partholon
Sweet Sixteen
1960
1951
13-c
1-s
Cheryl
Bay 1971
Snob
Chanel
1959
1961
7-e
8-c
Mejiro Aurola
Chestnut 1978
Remand
Chestnut 1965
Alcide
Admonish
1955
1958
2-f
16>
Mejiro Iris
Bay or brown 1964
Hindostan
Asama Yuri
1946
1959
3-e
7-c
Pastoralism
Bay or brown 1987
Pluralisme
Bay 1980
The Minstrel
Chestnut 1974
Northern Dancer
Fleur
1961
1964
2-d
8-f
Cambretta
Bay or brown 1975
Roberto
Cambrienne
1969
1969
12-c
1-t
Tokuno Eighty
Chestnut 1978
Tribal Chief
Bay 1967
Princely Gift
Mwanza
1951
1961
13-a
19>
Iron Ruby
Black 1972
Larkspur
Furei
1959
1959
1-w
16-h
  Ancestor duplications: Northern Dancer 5m x 5m   Princely Gift 5f x 5m


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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djebel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 2013 at 5:51pm
Originally posted by kavg kavg wrote:

Should be interesting Djebel and I think your hypothesis will prove correct but why start with the Adelaide cup winner as your 1st one- I thought we would be seeing winners of major staying races.


Its a group 2 race. Group racing in my book is major racing. Off course it goes against my thoughts on other aspects but I will not discriminate.


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 2013 at 5:52pm
Gold Ship won the g2 3000m HANSHIN DAISHOTEN the race Orfevre threw away last year.


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kavg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 2013 at 5:52pm
I think you should only concentrate on G1 races Djebel as below G1 they can become slugfests. Gold Ship-good choice, Gentildonna and Orfevre next...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kavg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 2013 at 5:54pm
Gold Ship won the Arima Kinen G1 but that was over 2500m. Maybe you should do it from races over 2400m? Even in Europe, they have to be able to stay to win over 2400m or longer. Once you get to races beyond 3200m you get plodders winning that don't necessarily have the class.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 2013 at 6:03pm
Ill give it some more thought Kavg.

I really did just want to look at the pedigree of stayers.

This 3600m winner today at Oakbank inspired this - Family of Sea The Stars, Galileo and Kings Best. Hopefully she is in the Sydney Cup

ALLGRACEFUL (AUS) Brown filly 2008  
Manton
Bay 2002
Danehill
Bay 1986
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Pas de Nom
Bay or brown 1968
Admiral's Voyage
Petitioner
1959
1952
4-n
7-a
Razyana
Bay 1981
His Majesty
Bay 1968
Ribot
Flower Bowl
1952
1952
4-l
4-d
Spring Adieu
Bay 1974
Buckpasser
Natalma
1963
1957
1-s
2-d
Kensington Gardens
Brown 1986
Grosvenor
Bay 1979
Sir Tristram
Bay 1971
Sir Ivor
Isolt
1965
1961
8-g
6-e
My Tricia
Brown 1974
Hermes
Gay Poss
1963
1966
11-d
8>
Tilly Foster
Bay 1981
Vice Regal
Brown 1973
Bismark
Kind Regards
1967
1966
13-c
3-e
Gentle Thoughts
Bay 1971
Ardistaan
Watch It
1965
1961
9-c
16>
Albanella
Chestnut 1996
Caerleon
Bay 1980
Nijinsky
Bay 1967
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Flaming Page
Bay 1959
Bull Page
Flaring Top
1947
1947
4-m
8-f
Foreseer
Bay or brown 1969
Round Table
Bay 1954
Princequillo
Knight's Daughter
1940
1941
1-b
2-f
Regal Gleam
Bay 1964
Hail to Reason
Miz Carol
1958
1953
4-n
1-s
Arionette
Chestnut 1981
Lombard
Chestnut 1967
Agio
Brown 1955
Tantieme
Aralia
1947
1945
20-a
9-h
Promised Lady
Chestnut 1961
Prince Chevalier
Belle Sauvage
1943
1949
9-f
1-d
Anatevka
Chestnut 1969
Espresso
Chestnut 1958
Acropolis
Babylon
1952
1940
1-w
7-a
Almyra
Chestnut 1962
Birkhahn
Alameda
1945
1951
1-j
9-h
  Ancestor duplications: Northern Dancer 4m x 4m   Natalma 5m,5f x 5m



STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GAJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 2013 at 7:22pm
Only a small observation so far, and one that I think from what i have seen so far, is the norm in stayers, not much line breeding up close?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 2013 at 7:36pm
It is the norm GAJ but then you get Heroic (Illuminata 4f x 3f, Cyllene 3m x 3m, Bend Or 5m, 4m x 5m, 5m  Hampton 5m, 4f x 4f) and Northerly (inbred to Flaming Page 3m x 5f and Dinner Partner 3f x 4m, Northern Dancer 3m x 5m, 4m, Raise a Native 3f x 5f) who both carried quiet a lot of inbreeding.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2013 at 8:53am
Havana Rey has some lovely female dups but I don't seem able to reproduce TB pedigrees on here, must've forgotten how Unhappy
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GAJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2013 at 6:35pm
Something I have noticed and I am guilty of the same, people will breed their mares to a stallion either close by or one they like with out any thought given to the comparability of the two, and produce a good one or acceptable racehorse ! Perhaps by mistake, but without giving the nick or line breeding theory any thought whatsoever. Hybrid vigour may result and a stayer is born.
Since I have been observing the forum I am constantly amazed at the variety of opinions and experiences shared by members.
I have a friend who, has just bred her mares to a stallion, a GREY simply because she likes greys, good luck to her, but on her behalf I did ask the forum for advice, but she ignored the help and pursued her likes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Run For Fun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2013 at 7:08pm
Had always been of the opinion that one key to breeding successful stayers in /australia, maybe not exactly 2-milers mind you, was the need to blend an element of genuine speed into the mix.  As very distinct from cheap speed.  Nijinsky for example being a stayer who possessesd a high cruising speed whether it be over 1200 or 2800m.
 
And our limited experience has hardened that view, having bred starch to starch in Oz, and in the two instances come up with only a slowcoach and a talented steepler.
However it's a hard row to hoe, because unless you breed the best to the best and then sell it's a matter of spending lots of time and your own money breeding and then racing the progeny yourself.
 
It's hard to soar with eagles...

Cheers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote goldey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2013 at 7:21pm
Out crossing seems to be a bit of a key, if i'm getting it right .5 to6 gens
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote goldey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2013 at 7:30pm
Originally posted by GAJ GAJ wrote:

Something I have noticed and I am guilty of the same, people will breed their mares to a stallion either close by or one they like with out any thought given to the comparability of the two, and produce a good one or acceptable racehorse ! Perhaps by mistake, but without giving the nick or line breeding theory any thought whatsoever. Hybrid vigour may result and a stayer is born.
Since I have been observing the forum I am constantly amazed at the variety of opinions and experiences shared by members.
I have a friend who, has just bred her mares to a stallion, a GREY simply because she likes greys, good luck to her, but on her behalf I did ask the forum for advice, but she ignored the help and pursued her likes.
So true , example Myself , bought mare in early november so had to go close to home to speed up the process , went to what was locally available , only to find that I consider the mating to be quite good with no nicking at all . 9 days from last race to in foal.Purchased 11/11 , serviced 20/11 Luck is a factor that  can't be underestimated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote songline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2013 at 9:14pm
Read somewhere that a stayers ped often has no inbreeding until the 4th gen or beyond. Of course that's not always the case! Sometimes luck plays a part, if it's a new cross no one can tell how good it is until it's tried.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shammy Davis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2013 at 3:12am
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Do people actually set out to breed stayers or do they attempt to breed high class horses who they hope will excel between 1600-2400m ?

Very few pedigrees of the worlds major staying races have dour pedigrees.

On this thread I intend posting the pedigrees of all the major staying event around the world.

These will be races of 2800m+

It will be interesting to see just how dour the pedigrees are.


 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lordy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2013 at 8:53am
On Saturday we saw both Julienas (2400m) and Jet Away (2000m) win and are being set for G1 staying races.  Both are by Cape Cross who was a top class miler in Europe.  Cape Cross has also produced an Adelaide Cup winner.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2013 at 9:32am
Originally posted by Lordy Lordy wrote:

On Saturday we saw both Julienas (2400m) and Jet Away (2000m) win and are being set for G1 staying races.  Both are by Cape Cross who was a top class miler in Europe.  Cape Cross has also produced an Adelaide Cup winner.


This is basically what I am alluding to.

Stayers do not come from staying Sires. The great Sadlers Wells a major influence for stamina did not stay a mile and a half as well as he did 2000m.


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

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The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2013 at 10:15am
Zabeel was a miler. His best have come over a distance. 
 
Luskin Star won the Golden Slipper but sired a very good 3200m horse in Flying Luskin (Wellington Cup, 2nd Auckland Cup). His son Fiesta Star was the sire of Staring (NZ Oaks) who is the granddam of It's a Dundeel.
 
 Todman was the broodmare sire of My Good Lord (Wellington Cup, Sydney Cup & 3rd in both the Brisbane and Auckland Cups) and Dulcify (AJC Derby, VRC Derby & many 2000m events before an untimely death). 
 
Biscay was the fastest thing on four legs over 1000m yet even he sired Bounding Away (Golden Slipper S, Champagne S, Blue Diamond S, AJC Oaks), Lowan Star (AJC Oaks, QTC Queensland Oaks) while his equally fast son Bletchingly got Kingston Town (Sydney Cup, AJC Derby, QTC Derby, W S Cox Plate (thrice) & 2nd Melbourne Cup), Spirit of Kingston (VRC Oaks) and another fast son Zephyr Bay who stood in New Zealand and had many more stout mares to serve sired three Oaks winners Glamour Bay (NZ Oaks), Judena (NZ St Leger, GN Oaks) and Nepherin (NZ Oaks).
 
Speed without that stout sire somewhere soon loses  its class.  Likewise stamina without speed is just uninspiring.  We need to keep both types alive and well for the breed to flurish.
 
And Djebel is right.  Red Cadeaux 2nd dam is by Dancing Brave who of course carries Pago Pago yet another Golden Slipper winner in his pedigree.  This grand horse only knows how to stay.  He's built for it.  Elegant with that classic build.  Funny thing is he was second at the weekend to Animal Kingdom another horse who knows how to stay with Pago Pago in his pedigree.  Both through Dancing Brave an Arc winner who was sent to Japan after some seasons at stud in Europe.
 
We sometimes only see speed.  Some Nothern Dancer blood is speed some stamina.  But the lines can cross over.  Star Kingdom was all speed but at stud his lines could cross over of do both.  We do train differently.  We get out and out stayers and win over a mile or less with them.  Djebel is saying we already have the blood we are just not using it.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kavg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2013 at 10:18am
Yes Djebel,
Even closer to home Zabeel only won one stake race beyond 1600m. He also only placed in Rosehill Guineas and Underwood if I remember correctly and you could easily say he was at his best as a miler and as a 3yo, yet the vast majority of his improve as they age and as distances increase.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2013 at 11:59am
Female Line of Julienas (IRE) 2007     by    Cape Cross (IRE) 1994...................miler
Dora Carrington (IRE) 1998     by    Sri Pekan (USA) 1992............speedy 2yo
Dorothea Brooke (IRE) 1992     by    Dancing Brave (USA) 1983........champion
Connaught Bridge (IRE) 1976     by    Connaught (IRE) 1965............top clas 10-12f
Fishermans Bridge (IRE) 1970     by    Crepello (GB) 1954..............top class 2 and 3yo
Riva (GB) 1964     by    Relic (USA) 1945................................top class sprinter US
Canvas (GB) 1959     by    Botticelli (ITY) 1951...................stamina Italian Derby Ascot Gold Cup
Rustic Bridge (GB) 1949     by    Bois Roussel (FR) 1935..........Epsom Derby
Wyn (GB) 1937     by    Winalot (GB) 1921...............................?
Bon Mot (IRE) 1932     by    Beresford (GB) 1921
Happy Climax (IRE) 1921     by    Happy Warrior (GB) 1911
Clio (GB) 1913     by    Dark Ronald (GB) 1905
Mall (GB) 1898     by    Ladas (GB) 1891
Serpentine (GB) 1893     by    St. Serf (GB) 1887
Footlight (GB) 1876     by    Cremorne (GB) 1869
Paraffin (GB) 1870     by    Blair Athol (GB) 1861
Paradigm (GB) 1852     by    Paragone (GB) 1843
Ellen Horne (GB) 1844     by    Redshank (GB) 1833
Delhi (GB) 1838     by    Plenipotentiary (GB) 1831
Pawn Junior (GB) 1817     by    Waxy (GB) 1790
Pawn (GB) 1808     by    Trumpator (GB) 1782
Prunella (GB) 1788     by    Highflyer (GB) 1774
Promise (GB) 1768     by    Snap (GB) 1750
Julia (GB) 1756     by    Blank (GB) 1740
Partner Mare (GB) 1735     by    Partner (GB) 1718
Bonny Lass (GB) 1723     by    Bay Bolton (GB) 1705
Darley Arabian Mare (GB) 17-

Comments are for the sires of the dams.



STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

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The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2013 at 12:05pm
Female Line
Female Line        Sire of Broodmare
Jet Away (GB) 2007     by    Cape Cross (IRE) 1994.............miler
Kalima (GB) 2002     by    Kahyasi (IRE) 1985................classic 12f
Kerali (GB) 1984     by    High Line (GB) 1966...............?
Sookera (USA) 1975     by    Roberto (USA) 1969................champion
Irule (USA) 1968     by    Young Emperor (GB) 1963...........sprinter
Iaround (USA) 1961     by    Round Table (USA) 1954............freakish champion 8-11f
Itsabet (USA) 1945     by    Heliopolis (GB) 1936..............10f
Jayjean (USA) 1940     by    Rolled Stocking (USA) 1924........
Genevra M. (USA) 1935     by    Percentage (USA) 1923
Homebody (USA) 1929     by    General Thatcher (USA) 1920
Scramble (FR) 1918     by    Le Melior (FR) 1912
Tangle (USA) 1903     by    Meddler (GB) 1890
Handspun (USA) 1892     by    Hanover (USA) 1884
Spinaway (USA) 1878     by    Leamington (GB) 1853
Megara (USA) 1870     by    Eclipse (GB) 1855
Ulrica (USA) 1863     by    Lexington (USA) 1850
Emilia (GB) 1840     by    Eric (GB) 1833
Persian (GB) 1829     by    Whisker (GB) 1812
Variety (GB) 1816     by    Soothsayer (GB) 1808
Sprite (GB) 1807     by    Bobtail (GB) 1795
Catherine (GB) 1795     by    Woodpecker (GB) 1773
Camilla (GB) 1778     by    Trentham (GB) 1766
Coquette (GB) 1765     by    Compton Barb (GB) 17--
Godolphin Arab Mare (GB) 1743     by    Godolphin Barb (GB) 1724
Grey Robinson (GB) 1723     by    Bald Galloway (GB) 17--
Snake Mare (GB) 171-     by    Snake (GB) 17--
Grey Wilkes (GB) 16--     by    Hautboy (GB) 16--
Pet Mare (GB) 16--     by

Comments are for the sires of the dams.



STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2013 at 12:08pm
Pierro arguably has a more dour pedigree that the above two. Possibly alot more top class racing speed.

Female Line
Female Line        Sire of Broodmare
Pierro (AUS) 2009     by    Lonhro (AUS) 1998
Miss Right Note (IRE) 2003     by    Daylami (IRE) 1994
Sky Song (IRE) 1997     by    Sadler's Wells (USA) 1981
Criquette (GB) 1990     by    Shirley Heights (GB) 1975
Ghislaine (USA) 1981     by    Icecapade (USA) 1969
Cambretta (USA) 1975     by    Roberto (USA) 1969
Cambrienne (FR) 1969     by    Sicambre (FR) 1948
Torbella (FR) 1955     by    Tornado (FR) 1939
Djebellica (FR) 1948     by    Djebel (FR) 1937
Nica (FR) 1934     by    Nino (FR) 1923
Canalette (FR) 1922     by    Cannobie (GB) 1913
Hallebarde (FR) 1906     by    Admirable Crichton (GB) 1903
Membrilla (GB) 1902     by    Laveno (GB) 1892
We Shall Remember (GB) 1891     by    Isonomy (GB) 1875
Sonsie Queen (GB) 1875     by    Musket (GB) 1867
Highland Lassie (GB) 1869     by    Stockwell (GB) 1849
Glengowrie (GB) 1851     by    Touchstone (GB) 1831
Glencairne (GB) 1838     by    Sultan (GB) 1816
Trampoline (GB) 1825     by    Tramp (GB) 1810
Web (GB) 1808     by    Waxy (GB) 1790
Penelope (GB) 1798     by    Trumpator (GB) 1782
Prunella (GB) 1788     by    Highflyer (GB) 1774
Promise (GB) 1768     by    Snap (GB) 1750
Julia (GB) 1756     by    Blank (GB) 1740
Partner Mare (GB) 1735     by    Partner (GB) 1718
Bonny Lass (GB) 1723     by    Bay Bolton (GB) 1705
Darley Arabian Mare (GB) 17--     by




STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2013 at 12:09pm


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2013 at 12:13pm
Cavalryman, You go back to Nasrullah and you do not find any stayers in broodmare sire department.

Go back to Minting and you find a Grand Prix de Paris 3000m winner.


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote songline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2013 at 2:20pm
Shammy's article - haven't read all of it but is it basically saying the stamina is carried down the female line via mitochondrial DNA on the X-chromosone? If true then the dam is what makes the main contribution to stamina. Sires only pass their X-chromosome onto their daughters so the sex of the foal may make a difference. Secretariat is a case in point. His sire Bold Ruler was considered a speed sire. Secretariat was a much better broodmare sire.  Even Fastnet Rock has bred middle distance winners - the latest being Super Cool.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2013 at 3:08pm
Which wouldn't explain how you get Zeditave, Melito, Americain and High Chaparral from the same female line.  Which I might add is more of a miler line but the first was an out and out sprinter, the second a sprinter/miler and the last two middle distance stayers. 
 
Yes I think the female lines have alot to do with most things.  Some lines can just do more than others.  While some like the Denise's Joy family seem to like to dominate the sire and when put to a dominating sire don't do as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote songline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2013 at 3:29pm
Out of curiosity, has the same dam (not the same female family) produced a mix of sprinters and stayers?
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