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Timmy's Goooone..!

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VOYAGER View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VOYAGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2014 at 12:15pm
No not saying your thopughts or motives were offensive linghi11, just that expression.
 
I am just saying that that expression is used when we are being flippant about a players chance of making the State of Origin squad or when a team who has buckleys of making the finals are being spoken of as a contender for the title.
 
Training racehorses is not an easy occupation, you have to have a forgiving family because your social life is non existent, especially if you have a large team, you need to continually hunt for bad payers within your owners and you need to grow your client base each year or you will wither away.And all of that is before you start the actual training.
 
I am a hack amateur when it comes to training racehorses so this is just my opinion but I do not think Sydney is a good fit for Tim. I undertsand why he made the move but while you can be a little stagnant in the rural areas and then recover, you need to grow your business in the metro areas or you will be left behind as Tim has been.
Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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linghi11 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote linghi11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2014 at 12:31pm
Originally posted by VOYAGER VOYAGER wrote:

No not saying your thopughts or motives were offensive linghi11, just that expression.
 
I am just saying that that expression is used when we are being flippant about a players chance of making the State of Origin squad or when a team who has buckleys of making the finals are being spoken of as a contender for the title.
 
Training racehorses is not an easy occupation, you have to have a forgiving family because your social life is non existent, especially if you have a large team, you need to continually hunt for bad payers within your owners and you need to grow your client base each year or you will wither away.And all of that is before you start the actual training.
 
I am a hack amateur when it comes to training racehorses so this is just my opinion but I do not think Sydney is a good fit for Tim. I undertsand why he made the move but while you can be a little stagnant in the rural areas and then recover, you need to grow your business in the metro areas or you will be left behind as Tim has been.

The motivation was to purely attract people to make sure they notice that a very able young G1 trainer is going. (people react to foolish catchphrases - "Tim Martin giving up training" would not pique their curiosity quite as much)

I think that having more mid-size trainers like Tim is healthy for racing and I very much hate seeing them go. Authorities want to keep city tracks to very few trainers and the concept of having 4 trainers contest everything in town is frustrating. Yes they say if you can't hack it then go - well that's a great freaking concept... not... why don't we just have 4 teams in NRL... AFL... world cup. Dead
No one wants to see that!!!!! We want lots of trainers, lots of competition, lots of choice for punters and owners. Yes some guys have gone into overdrive with marketing themselves and it's great for them. Just really cr@p for the sport. Hope Tim and others can find a way to make the racing scene competitive again. Racing is awesome because Takeover Target can win G1's... not because some guys can afford to buy 10 $500k yearlings and win a Listed race and push it as a stallion. That is part of the living the dream in racing and why it captures so many.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Winning Run Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2014 at 2:13pm
TM stepping away has absolutely nothing to do with health. Zero, Zip, nothing. However you want it put.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nocturnal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2014 at 2:33pm
Originally posted by Winning Run Winning Run wrote:

TM stepping away has absolutely nothing to do with health. Zero, Zip, nothing. However you want it put.
Well it does in part
The only problem with backing winners ? You never have enough on....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Newtown Old Boy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2014 at 2:49pm
Wasn't it TM who had that altercation with I think it was Gary Portelli?
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linghi11 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote linghi11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2014 at 2:51pm
yes it was... around Scone carnival 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2014 at 4:37pm
punch up in the pub Thumbs Up  Gary took it on the chins !LOL just 2 old bushies duking it out !!Cry
animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bushy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2014 at 4:46pm
Tim owes millions and its funny how these trainers claim depression when after years of ripping people off they get caught out and are now depressed- PLUEASE- if they where not ripping people off they wouldn't lose the business they have lost- a joke they are not in gaol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2014 at 4:53pm
That appears a very dangerous accusation to post if you're not entirely sure of your facts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nocturnal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2014 at 5:16pm
Almost libel in fact....

It has zero to do with your claim , I think depression has been already well and truly ruled out .
The only problem with backing winners ? You never have enough on....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldmate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2014 at 5:35pm
Originally posted by Bushy Bushy wrote:

Tim owes millions and its funny how these trainers claim depression when after years of ripping people off they get caught out and are now depressed- PLUEASE- if they where not ripping people off they wouldn't lose the business they have lost- a joke they are not in gaol



Here we going with someone else claiming Tim has depression. The depression can't be to bad because he is riding trackwork for Gai.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Insider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2014 at 6:25pm
Originally posted by Bushy Bushy wrote:

Tim owes millions and its funny how these trainers claim depression when after years of ripping people off they get caught out and are now depressed- PLUEASE- if they where not ripping people off they wouldn't lose the business they have lost- a joke they are not in gaol

Can see your point, but very risky making allegations like that. I have heard some similar rumors but have deliberately avoided them for fear of action.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Munga Rangi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2014 at 6:43pm
 Whether TM has been diagnosed or not, the issue of depression related illness in the Racing Industry deserves its own thread as it is more prevalent than most realise. It should not be made light of, is insidious by design, it does not only destroy the individual but whole families suffer terribly as a consequence. I concede that some unconscionable individuals may use the term as an excuse for their obtuse behaviour - but for those who suffer from it, everyday can be a legitimate struggle. Combine long, long working hours, with often longer periods of poor monetary return and the continual inability to participate in many normal social activities with loved ones. It is a slow but gradual wearing down of both ones sense of optimism and physical stamina, until there is nothing left. The whole structure of how this industry functions makes those involved in the long term, incredibly vulnerable. That is all Smile
Caveat emptor
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rhino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2014 at 9:08pm
Originally posted by oldmate oldmate wrote:

Originally posted by Bushy Bushy wrote:

Tim owes millions and its funny how these trainers claim depression when after years of ripping people off they get caught out and are now depressed- PLUEASE- if they where not ripping people off they wouldn't lose the business they have lost- a joke they are not in gaol



Here we going with someone else claiming Tim has depression. The depression can't be to bad because he is riding trackwork for Gai.

Wtf
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote room for a slew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2014 at 6:34am
Sad to his demise, whatever the reasons.

His horses over the last few years have been poorly placed and very inconsistent.

He hasn't pulled off one of his first starter plunges of note in ages.

What ever he did with the $10 million bonus from Nick for his handling of E and E, who knows.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote linghi11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2014 at 9:56am
well there are some reports that he never got it.... yet there are reports that he did... so it's all a tad confusing! he bought packs of yearlings on spec and could not offload them and think he went to Singapore one day to offload them! you see as a trainer with some success, you have to be careful not to let the very wise operators working for big breeders convince you that you're bigger than you really are and buy up horses you have no hope of moving on 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldmate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2014 at 10:48am
Originally posted by room for a slew room for a slew wrote:

Sad to his demise, whatever the reasons.

His horses over the last few years have been poorly placed and very inconsistent.

He hasn't pulled off one of his first starter plunges of note in ages.

What ever he did with the $10 million bonus from Nick for his handling of E and E, who knows.




Do you really think that if Nick sold E and E for 20 million that he would give Tim 10 million. And Do you really think that if Tim received 10 million that he would of even bothered to continue training race horses. Room For A Slew could you please have a think for a minute or 2 and then give us a answer for them 2 questions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldmate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2014 at 11:01am
Originally posted by linghi11 linghi11 wrote:

well there are some reports that he never got it.... yet there are reports that he did... so it's all a tad confusing! he bought packs of yearlings on spec and could not offload them and think he went to Singapore one day to offload them! you see as a trainer with some success, you have to be careful not to let the very wise operators working for big breeders convince you that you're bigger than you really are and buy up horses you have no hope of moving on 



If he bought packs of yearlings and could not offload them would he have been able to buy a few more yearlings this year at the millions if he was not paid up for from last year. Also remembering that the BC3 dramas had come to surface before the sales so you would think that the magic millions would be a bit carefull giving tick to some one who you say couldn't off load previous years yearlings. Or are you a bit like RoomFor A Slew and just like to write silly things on the Internet without really thinking before you hit send.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote linghi11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2014 at 11:12am
oldmate, this was not this year... what exactly are you alleging he bought this year after BC3..? just the 2 yearlings. They sold a few through breeze ups last year as Heritage park. Sales companies will give you plenty of credit if you've paid before (as shown by BC3, that only became a problem when the horse was sick, the punting club unraveled and Inglis KNEW they would never be paid) and even more if you commit to selling the said yearlings through the breeze ups. Oh and Moraitis was supposed to give him 2M not 10M. I suggest you learn something about how racing at the top end works first before coming here and calling people silly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote room for a slew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2014 at 11:12am
My uncle is a NSW racing steward of 35 years.

Mostly around mid north coast/ new england areas.

He lived in Tamworth for a number of those years.

Is friends with Tims brother out that way, he has a stack of racing connections/acquaintances etc.

Some of the things he knows and encountered etc would shut up right up old mate.
Enough said.

Plus I am not the kind of person to make up rubbish about anyone or anything.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Winning Run Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2014 at 11:19am
To say that NM gave TM $10 million should only have been allowed to be posted yesterday for April fools. Ridiculous to the extreme.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote linghi11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2014 at 11:36am
hmm if NM gave him 10M I am sure there would not have been a rift... note that TM has not been training for him for a long while; all the publicity with Hayson allegedly cost him the Sheikh's patronage and left him in a lurch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldmate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2014 at 11:44am
There is not a steward in the mid north coast or hunter and west area that has been a steward for 35 years. Shane Cullen has been doing the Hunter area for about 15 years and he always has a young cadet that he teaches for about 1 year then the cadet gets moved on. Drew Smith has been the steward on the mid coast for about 10 years and he would only be about 35 years old so either you or your uncle are lying about him being a steward in those areas. Instead of saying who and what you know can you just answer those 2 questions I asked you. Do you think if Nick sold E and E for 20 mill would he give Tim 10 mill and if Tim got given 10 mill would he bother to train race horses.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Buckpasser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2014 at 11:54am
E&E sold for 20 million, plus GST. Alan Osburg owned 25%, Nick Moratis 75%. NM did not give Tim 2/3rds of the sale price payable to NM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldmate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2014 at 12:00pm
[QUOTE=linghi11] oldmate, this was not this year... what exactly are you alleging he bought this year after BC3..? just the 2 yearlings. They sold a few through breeze ups last year as Heritage park. Sales companies will give you plenty of credit if you've paid before (as shown by BC3, that only became a problem when the horse was sick, the punting club unraveled and Inglis KNEW they would never be paid) and even more if you commit to selling the said yearlings through the breeze ups. Oh and Moraitis was supposed to give him 2M not 10M. I suggest you learn something about how racing at the top end works first before coming here and calling people silly.

You have been giving your opinion on why you think Tim has stopped training and when someone said that he owes millions and you said that he bought a heap of yearlings and could not off load them I thought that you were talking about the yearlings that he bought 2 and 3 years ago so I asked you if he had not of unloaded those yearlings would he have been given tick this year.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Winning Run Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2014 at 12:02pm
Originally posted by linghi11 linghi11 wrote:

hmm if NM gave him 10M I am sure there would not have been a rift... note that TM has not been training for him for a long while; all the publicity with Hayson allegedly cost him the Sheikh's patronage and left him in a lurch


There was a bit of a dispute over a horse. Cant remember its name. I think it was a grey and it showed good early promise. TM said the horse wasn't any good and NM didn't like to hear it. From my understanding there was no major issues.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldmate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2014 at 12:09pm
Buckpasser that is correct. Tim had a gentlemans agreement with Nick for the trainers 10% but he got shafted.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote linghi11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2014 at 12:13pm
Tim went to Singapore a few years ago, I am not sure he owes millions right now but he was said to be in a pickle back then. From what I can see sales companies work a little like banks... if a normal person goes and asks them for some credit they umm and ahh... yet if a business owner in huge debt with the bank goes in, they just extend their overdraft. I have heard from trainers that they spend years paying out yearlings they buy in the one year, so the credit is well beyond the 30 days advertised. Also, extended credit was easy to come by around 5-6 years ago, the sales companies are not as frivolous now.

From what I know, the sum was $2M. Some people close to Tim will tell you he never got paid. Some will say he got paid and it was spent. I have never asked him so cannot vouch for either version. 

WR, did the grey horse end up being any good?
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Cariboo
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Winning Run Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2014 at 12:20pm
Originally posted by linghi11 linghi11 wrote:

Tim went to Singapore a few years ago, I am not sure he owes millions right now but he was said to be in a pickle back then. From what I can see sales companies work a little like banks... if a normal person goes and asks them for some credit they umm and ahh... yet if a business owner in huge debt with the bank goes in, they just extend their overdraft. I have heard from trainers that they spend years paying out yearlings they buy in the one year, so the credit is well beyond the 30 days advertised. Also, extended credit was easy to come by around 5-6 years ago, the sales companies are not as frivolous now.

From what I know, the sum was $2M. Some people close to Tim will tell you he never got paid. Some will say he got paid and it was spent. I have never asked him so cannot vouch for either version. 

WR, did the grey horse end up being any good?


No. Cant remember its name at all. But looked promising and ended up doing very little.
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