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The refugee crisis..??!!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2017 at 1:05pm
Can you show me where I have generalised about any ethnic or religious refugee group, not politicians claiming to act on behalf of people? 

I am pretty sure I have said many times on these threads that if a person commits a crime, they should be dealt with on the basis of an individual committing a crime, not calling for the changing of the immigration act or policy to exclude a particular group whether it be race or religion. Glad to be proven wrong though
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Originally posted by subastral subastral wrote:

The left cling to feelgood stories, the right thrive on the bad news stories. Wonder what that says about each's innate personality characteristics....

The unshakeable optimist and the doomsayer are both usually a bit mentally unhealthy, in my experience, unless they're just sheltered and the product of upbringing etc.
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Originally posted by stayer stayer wrote:

Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

That is where we differ Rattlesnake. When it suits your agenda and narrative you judge the whole by the sins of a few. I prefer to judge everyone on their individual record.

What nonsense. You generalize to fit your agenda and narrative just as much as any right wing scaremonger does. I can confidently say that I judge individuals - couldn't care less about their race etc - but I'm realistic about the influence that culture and background life experience has on individuals. For example, I wouldn't think a young Somali bloke is automatically trouble because of where he's come from, but I'd certainly be aware that he comes from an extremely different culture that has different ways of seeing things, and has likely had some awful experiences that have messed with his psychology. I certainly couldn't give a toss that he's black, and I give even less of a toss that some people from his country can kick a ball! What's that got to with anything, unless you want to use it to make a ridiculous generalization (the "success" of a few to judge the whole) to fit your agenda.
Sorry mate, but seriously, the hypocrisy of the left is mind boggling sometimes.


Very well put.

IMO the question then becomes, what level of negative behavior stemming from these culture clashes and awful experiences is the community prepared to accept.
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Thanks Rattlesnake Thumbs Up
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About 10 years back I had to write an essay for a girlfriend doing immigration law, and had to read through all the international/domestic law stuff about immigrants/asylum seekers/refugees etc, and different approaches around the world at the time etc, and the only thing I can remember about it is that it seemed glaringly obvious to me that, for all the ins and outs, if people join the Australian community coming from extremely different cultures and extremely traumatic life experiences then there must be a structure in place (preferably NGO organisations supported by government) that helps these people to adapt to the new culture and heal their psychological wounds as best they can. I don't mean some cheesy vow to adopt "Australian values" (whatever they are) or some compulsory 1 hour a month counselling service - I mean real people living here meeting with the real people coming here and explaining Australia to them; our way of thinking, our culture, how to get around a supermarket, how to get education and a job etc. This would be good for everyone - the people coming here who naturally tend to form into like-minded groups (including gangs etc) and the people of the community that they are moving into.

What won't be good for anyone is pollies and know-alls dehumanizing "them" and "us" by generalizations and bandaid crap.

I don't trust any 3 year term govt to do anything real about the issue - I think the churches and humanitarian groups should get some balls and show some real compassion and social responsibility and common sense. That would be a small start anyway.

The biggest problem, as usual, is leftie dressmakers talking a lot of nonsense to feather their own nests and doing nothing practical.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2017 at 2:42pm
Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

Can you show me where I have generalised about any ethnic or religious refugee group, not politicians claiming to act on behalf of people? 

I am pretty sure I have said many times on these threads that if a person commits a crime, they should be dealt with on the basis of an individual committing a crime, not calling for the changing of the immigration act or policy to exclude a particular group whether it be race or religion. Glad to be proven wrong though

Sorry, missed this. Hopefully my last post shows where I'm coming from. I think we basically agree, but I'm less inclined to naively believe that culture has no influence on individuals.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2017 at 2:43pm
I hope you didn't write the essay with your biased negative slant.

10 years ago would be at the end of the Howard govt. Are you saying they set things up to fail for immigrants?

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Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

I hope you didn't write the essay with your biased negative slant.

10 years ago would be at the end of the Howard govt. Are you saying they set things up to fail for immigrants?


I knew that would come. Yawn.
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Ok sorry that's rude and dismissive. My response is no I wrote without a slant, and I don't know what makes you think it would be biased or negative. And yes it was probably around the end of the Howard era when this stuff started becoming a political football. Thankfully it was before the onslaught of social media, where everyone's an expert about everything and nothing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2017 at 2:54pm
Originally posted by stayer stayer wrote:

Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

Can you show me where I have generalised about any ethnic or religious refugee group, not politicians claiming to act on behalf of people? 

I am pretty sure I have said many times on these threads that if a person commits a crime, they should be dealt with on the basis of an individual committing a crime, not calling for the changing of the immigration act or policy to exclude a particular group whether it be race or religion. Glad to be proven wrong though

Sorry, missed this. Hopefully my last post shows where I'm coming from. I think we basically agree, but I'm less inclined to naively believe that culture has no influence on individuals.

I have never said that, but unlike Rattlesnake, who the original post was about, I dont assume they will offend because of those differences The vast majority of people come here to improve their lives and their kids are no different to any other kids, some rebel or don't fit in, sometimes not from anything they do, but from attitudes towards them, like his expectation of failure
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2017 at 2:57pm
Originally posted by stayer stayer wrote:

Ok sorry that's rude and dismissive. My response is no I wrote without a slant, and I don't know what makes you think it would be biased or negative. And yes it was probably around the end of the Howard era when this stuff started becoming a political football. Thankfully it was before the onslaught of social media, where everyone's an expert about everything and nothing.

Perhaps this?


The biggest problem, as usual, is leftie dressmakers talking a lot of nonsense to feather their own nests and doing nothing practical.
 



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LOL, that's biased against leftie dressmakers, not refugees!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2017 at 3:01pm
I also have just as much "bias" towards rightie dressmakers. Some would call it lack of bias. Common sense.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2017 at 3:02pm
Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

Originally posted by stayer stayer wrote:

Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

Can you show me where I have generalised about any ethnic or religious refugee group, not politicians claiming to act on behalf of people? 

I am pretty sure I have said many times on these threads that if a person commits a crime, they should be dealt with on the basis of an individual committing a crime, not calling for the changing of the immigration act or policy to exclude a particular group whether it be race or religion. Glad to be proven wrong though

Sorry, missed this. Hopefully my last post shows where I'm coming from. I think we basically agree, but I'm less inclined to naively believe that culture has no influence on individuals.


I have never said that, but unlike Rattlesnake, who the original post was about, I dont assume they will offend because of those differences The vast majority of people come here to improve their lives and their kids are no different to any other kids, some rebel or don't fit in, sometimes not from anything they do, but from attitudes towards them, like his expectation of failure

But they are much more likely to offend, surely? Just like any kid who has grown up in a messed up home?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rattlesnake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2017 at 3:06pm
Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

Originally posted by stayer stayer wrote:

Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

Can you show me where I have generalised about any ethnic or religious refugee group, not politicians claiming to act on behalf of people? 

I am pretty sure I have said many times on these threads that if a person commits a crime, they should be dealt with on the basis of an individual committing a crime, not calling for the changing of the immigration act or policy to exclude a particular group whether it be race or religion. Glad to be proven wrong though

Sorry, missed this. Hopefully my last post shows where I'm coming from. I think we basically agree, but I'm less inclined to naively believe that culture has no influence on individuals.

I have never said that, but unlike Rattlesnake, who the original post was about, I dont assume they will offend because of those differences The vast majority of people come here to improve their lives and their kids are no different to any other kids, some rebel or don't fit in, sometimes not from anything they do, but from attitudes towards them, like his expectation of failure


Funny that you point out being misrepresented, then do the exact same to me.

I don't assume a person will offend, but I know that they have a greater chance of offending.

There is a clear difference, try bringing yourself to understand it.

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This reminds me of teaching year 4s about the Probability Line.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2017 at 3:10pm
Originally posted by Rattlesnake Rattlesnake wrote:

Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

Originally posted by stayer stayer wrote:

Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

Can you show me where I have generalised about any ethnic or religious refugee group, not politicians claiming to act on behalf of people? 

I am pretty sure I have said many times on these threads that if a person commits a crime, they should be dealt with on the basis of an individual committing a crime, not calling for the changing of the immigration act or policy to exclude a particular group whether it be race or religion. Glad to be proven wrong though

Sorry, missed this. Hopefully my last post shows where I'm coming from. I think we basically agree, but I'm less inclined to naively believe that culture has no influence on individuals.

I have never said that, but unlike Rattlesnake, who the original post was about, I dont assume they will offend because of those differences The vast majority of people come here to improve their lives and their kids are no different to any other kids, some rebel or don't fit in, sometimes not from anything they do, but from attitudes towards them, like his expectation of failure


Funny that you point out being misrepresented, then do the exact same to me.

I don't assume a person will offend, but I know that they have a greater chance of offending.

There is a clear difference, try bringing yourself to understand it.


I don't think I have you misrepresented and I thanked you for proving the point Your starting position is they don't belong here and you have the stats to show why
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2017 at 3:20pm
I haven't read it but I'm guessing rattlesnake put up some stats about the problems that exist, just to show that there are problems. They DO exist you know, PT!
I doubt he's a racist RWNJ type from anything I've read that he posts - I think he's just on a mission to correct SJWs. It's a pity that political correctness (and its backladh) and social media has reduced people to taking extreme sides, whether they are aware of it or not. Back in the days of paper and education and stuff, most people used to have more balanced and tolerant views about things that didn't concern their daily lives.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rattlesnake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2017 at 3:23pm
Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

Originally posted by Rattlesnake Rattlesnake wrote:

Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

Originally posted by stayer stayer wrote:

Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

Can you show me where I have generalised about any ethnic or religious refugee group, not politicians claiming to act on behalf of people? 

I am pretty sure I have said many times on these threads that if a person commits a crime, they should be dealt with on the basis of an individual committing a crime, not calling for the changing of the immigration act or policy to exclude a particular group whether it be race or religion. Glad to be proven wrong though

Sorry, missed this. Hopefully my last post shows where I'm coming from. I think we basically agree, but I'm less inclined to naively believe that culture has no influence on individuals.

I have never said that, but unlike Rattlesnake, who the original post was about, I dont assume they will offend because of those differences The vast majority of people come here to improve their lives and their kids are no different to any other kids, some rebel or don't fit in, sometimes not from anything they do, but from attitudes towards them, like his expectation of failure


Funny that you point out being misrepresented, then do the exact same to me.

I don't assume a person will offend, but I know that they have a greater chance of offending.

There is a clear difference, try bringing yourself to understand it.


I don't think I have you misrepresented and I thanked you for proving the point Your starting position is they don't belong here and you have the stats to show why


Oh dear. When two separate posters point out the same issue within moments of each other, best to look into it Passing Through. Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2017 at 3:34pm
Confused Did I misrepresent you or not? Now you say your argument is backed up by someone else, the argument I misrepresent you on?

I see why Trump appeals to you....you ''get'' him LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2017 at 3:38pm
I'm checking out of the ego battle....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2017 at 3:50pm
Dont worry stayer, it has been going for about 7 years. Wont be resolved any time soon LOL
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Ah ok. Carry on...
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Is not about refugees but shows the different ideaologies.

Twenty years ago, the CWA [country Womens Association] in Broome, were looking after and providing soup and sandwiches to those in and coming into Broome for shelter, during cyclones.
A government person/beauracrat came up from Perth and directed CWA to stop as fish and chips and hungry Jacks would be supplied.
And not to bring in swags as mattresses would be supplied, up to 200 of them!

So many wrongs and rights in that little scenario. Common sense prevailed and went back to the CWA.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2017 at 4:31pm
Originally posted by Isaac soloman Isaac soloman wrote:

Is not about refugees but shows the different ideaologies.

Twenty years ago, the CWA [country Womens Association] in Broome, were looking after and providing soup and sandwiches to those in and coming into Broome for shelter, during cyclones.
A government person/beauracrat came up from Perth and directed CWA to stop as fish and chips and hungry Jacks would be supplied.
And not to bring in swags as mattresses would be supplied, up to 200 of them!

So many wrongs and rights in that little scenario. Common sense prevailed and went back to the CWA.

Crazy stuff. Funny how idealogues from both sides talk about genuine people as if they're cattle/stats.
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Which makes me think, if PT and Rattle have been going at each other for 7 years, haven't they learned that the latest stats and quotes etc are rubbish proofs for arguments? Baffling.
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Don't worry guys, you won't get PT off his moral high horse on this one! ... just like the 8 years of O'bummer's reign of terror, there was no such thing as an Islamic Terrorist!!! ... the only criminals in this country or the US are the conservative parliamentarians, and they should all be locked up for life!!! ... it's OK for the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils to simply steal public money too ... after all, they are no different to any other welfare cheat, and seeing as they are an impoverished minority it is socially irresponsible to ask them for that money back that they have stolen!

But it's ok, he does have the solution ... just open the borders with a big campaign ...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2017 at 4:53pm
Hard to argue thar our middle eastern friends arnt over represented in criminal enclaves.....whether it be bikie or street gangs , fraudulent welfare activity, aversion to paying tax, home grown terrorist activities & any other area that puts a massive question mark as to how fair dinkum they are in assimilating to our way of life.. Loved that "probability line" comment Stayer.....how true.....how obvious !
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Paying tax, I guess they listened to Kerry Packer then Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2017 at 5:04pm
Originally posted by Whale Whale wrote:

Paying tax, I guess they listened to Kerry Packer then Smile

They have obviously done well since they got here

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