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Superannuation Investment Returns

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James Bond Esq View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote James Bond Esq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2014 at 1:23pm
Originally posted by Whale Whale wrote:

your super would have gone down a lot in the last week.

recovered most of the losses in the last 2 days Smile

the stock market is crazy, I just don't get it, does anyone ?




Australia and Australian markets are slaves to overseas forces, some of these are in the backrooms of organisations taking profits willy nilly that we can't fully comprehend. There are controlling forces out there above and beyond the nuisances of day to day economic activity.
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Whale View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2014 at 5:23pm
Even industry funds charge too much.In Chile where it is put to some sort of tender about .2% is charged compared to .9 % here

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/a-new-study-has-found-a-staggering-gap-in-retirement-payouts-for-australians-in-retail-versus-industry-funds-2014-8
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Ecair Issoire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 2014 at 8:44am
this financial year..the super fund i'm in -
the international shares investment option is up 14.15 %..
flying.
 
the international shares hedged option is only up 4.9% this finacial year...
hedged means that they somehow insure/protect against the aus$ rising..
the poor return compared to the "unhedged" option suggests that the aus$ falling
has been part of the reason that the int shares option has done so well..
 
 
from my 1st post in this thread i used the 01/01/2013 as a starting point for figures quoted..
since then the int shares option has returned..52.99% - (just under 2 years)..
 
I had my $ in that option for most of that time + chickened out in mid may this year + put it in
the property option..thinking that the good run has to end soon..
i wish i hadn't...as i've missed out on a bit over 12.5%..+ i don't think i can go back into it now.
 
Anyone have any thoughts on why the international shares investment option has done so well over the last 2 years + what might happen in the next couple of years?
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Whale View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Whale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 2014 at 8:57am
Maybe recently diving resource prices have affected the Australian stockmarket, but yes it does seem international shares do better in general.

I put some money in super and took the direct invest option, in other words I could buy the shares I liked.

I wish I had just left the money in the default account and let the super fund invest it, they are much better than me Confused

My fund made about 12% last year, very good when the interest rate on deposits is  about 3.5%
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ExceedAndExcel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExceedAndExcel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 2014 at 9:00am
The AUD has fallen around 20% against virtually every major currency in the last two years. That's a fair slice of your outperformance relative to the australian market right there.
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James Bond Esq View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote James Bond Esq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 2014 at 9:27am
Yes, any investments in international shares should have automatically increased by 20% without any organic growth in the shares.
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Whale View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 2014 at 9:31am
I don't think that is what he was referring to.

I think he is talking about the % growth in o'seas markets, not the exchange benefits which would be magnificent too
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Ecair Issoire View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ecair Issoire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 2014 at 9:36am

i've been thinking about the direct stuff too..ie picking my own shares..addtional fees to have access to that option,,usually..+ restrictions/rules that wouldn't normally apply when trading outside of super..eg X % of your $ in any 1 share or Y% in shares total..no day trading, etc.

seems more fun, watching your stock performance each day.. + with more potential for better returns..but as always with potential for better returns comes potential for bigger losses..
 
 
E+E . .any speculation as to what will happen to the A$ in the next year or 2?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote James Bond Esq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 2014 at 9:37am
Good luck Whale. I hope you keep killing it on the Super front.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExceedAndExcel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 2014 at 9:40am
Originally posted by Ecair Issoire Ecair Issoire wrote:

i've been thinking about the direct stuff too..ie picking my own shares..addtional fees to have access to that option,,usually..+ restrictions/rules that wouldn't normally apply when trading outside of super..eg X % of your $ in any 1 share or Y% in shares total..no day trading, etc.



seems more fun, watching your stock performance each day.. + with more potential for better returns..but as always with potential for better returns comes potential for bigger losses..

 

 

E+E . .any speculation as to what will happen to the A$ in the next year or 2?




I would love to say the AUD will go back up as I have a 4-6 week trip planned. Sadly I think it may go down further but not too much hopefully. Perhaps to USD0.75. Thankfully the major expense of flights will be paid for using frequent flyer points!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ecair Issoire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 2014 at 9:41am
i think E+E was referring to the exchange rate of the $A
- not the sharemarket o's ..he can ofcourse clarify/confirm that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote James Bond Esq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 2014 at 9:44am
Originally posted by ExceedAndExcel ExceedAndExcel wrote:

Originally posted by Ecair Issoire Ecair Issoire wrote:

i've been thinking about the direct stuff too..ie picking my own shares..addtional fees to have access to that option,,usually..+ restrictions/rules that wouldn't normally apply when trading outside of super..eg X % of your $ in any 1 share or Y% in shares total..no day trading, etc.



seems more fun, watching your stock performance each day.. + with more potential for better returns..but as always with potential for better returns comes potential for bigger losses..

 

 

E+E . .any speculation as to what will happen to the A$ in the next year or 2?




I would love to say the AUD will go back up as I have a 4-6 week trip planned. Sadly I think it may go down further but not too much hopefully. Perhaps to USD0.75. Thankfully the major expense of flights will be paid for using frequent flyer points!


You are right. While interested rates in Australia are relatively high compared to the rest of the world; there is no way the Australian dollar can go up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 2014 at 10:21am
Originally posted by Ecair Issoire Ecair Issoire wrote:

i've been thinking about the direct stuff too..ie picking my own shares..addtional fees to have access to that option,,usually..+ restrictions/rules that wouldn't normally apply when trading outside of super..eg X % of your $ in any 1 share or Y% in shares total..no day trading, etc.

seems more fun, watching your stock performance each day.. + with more potential for better returns..but as always with potential for better returns comes potential for bigger losses..
 
 
E+E . .any speculation as to what will happen to the A$ in the next year or 2?


My fund does not have additional fees for the direct invest option but there are % rules.

It is certainly a wild ride, at my best I was + $11,500, at my worst a few days ago I assume I was down about $3000 , I was too scared to look LOL

At the moment I am up about $4200 , not counting dividends which of course are taxed at only 15% Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rosscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 2014 at 12:54pm
I trade regularly and follow the markets very closely using Fundamental & Technical Analysis. 

A high proportion of my analysis is "Technical" basing my strategies on where investors are dropping their hard-earned. The whole game is based on 2 major concepts:-

1. Confidence
2. Psychology

The International Shares have performed very nicely thanks to improving economic data in the US.

However, the Australian Stockmarket has performed sluggishly over the past 12 months although some of the small-mid caps, banks, Telstra etc have performed nicely!

I hold no more than 5-6 companies at one time. I've recently sold TPG (ASX - TPM) for a very healthy profit. I'm currently holding Telstra, PACT (going very nicely and scope for future growth), Slater & Gordon + Corporate Travel Management (watching this one closely and maybe selling very soon and taking profits).

Internationally, the US economy will continue to improve & at present there is no real rush pushing interest rates up. When they do eventually go up it will be a very gradual process. I have my money in an Exchange Trading Fund (ASX-WDIV). It is a Global Dividend Fund - The SPDR S&P Global Dividend Fund seeks to provide investment returns, before fees and other costs, that closely correspond to the performance of the S&P Global Dividend Aristocrats Index.

I expect this ETF to grow very nicely over the next 12-18 months. It gives exposure to quality companies around the world including a sizeable % in The USA, Canada + UK (around 50% weightings).

As for the OZ dollar - it will continue to fall & will be in the 70's before too much longer. Searching for & investing in companies that have assets in the USA & other emerging markets will be a player in the 12 months ahead.

I currently have my eye on a few small-mid caps that appear to be quite cheap with the potential for solid growth. Again these companies need exposure outside of Australia.

Some of the experts are calling the ASX-200 + All Ords to be nudging the 6000 mark by the end of 2015. If correct, very solid gains will be made however I'm not so sure these predictions will come to fruition.

I believe we have some fundamental problems / issues here in OZ which is putting a negative on overall confidence. 

Targeting a few solid, well performed companies with overseas exposure mentioned previously will be my goal in 2015.


Current Stable - Soul Star & Adivinar + unnamed Lope De Vega x Sonette filly
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2015 at 2:29pm
Originally posted by Whale Whale wrote:

[QUOTE=Ecair Issoire]

My fund does not have additional fees for the direct invest option but there are % rules.

It is certainly a wild ride, at my best I was + $11,500, at my worst a few days ago I assume I was down about $3000 , I was too scared to look LOL

At the moment I am up about $4200 , not counting dividends which of course are taxed at only 15% Smile


up $12,000 now but not spending it yet, anything can happen and does on the stock market
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExceedAndExcel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2015 at 2:45pm
What a great thread this was! Poor old JBE getting hammered as usual under his former alias. Hilarious stuff!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote saintly96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2015 at 2:49pm
About 15 years ago the head of anaesthetics at my hospital was telling me that superannuation was a big con. He told me to get out and put the money away myself.

I halved my own contribution (down to 4.5%), and the rest I just kept putting away each fortnight in a savings account.

It is now in a high interest savings account and the balance is way more than I could have ever hoped for, and it is certainly making my super look quite thin.

I can use this money for whatever I like, and whenever I like. I don't have to wait for retirement, which was the plan. However, with my daughter starting Uni next year, I might just use some of it to buy a house close to her Uni of choice instead.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ecair Issoire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2015 at 2:52pm
are you self employed saintly?
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote saintly96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2015 at 3:01pm
Originally posted by Ecair Issoire Ecair Issoire wrote:

are you self employed saintly?

 

 


No.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExceedAndExcel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2015 at 3:05pm
Likely that a significant reason for the difference is timing Saintly. Australian shares make up a significant percentage of most default funds asset allocation and the ASX200 is still close to 30% lower than what it was 7 years ago.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ecair Issoire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2015 at 3:06pm
i ask because an employer has to pay the SG (super guarantee)
currently 9.5% of your gross income into a super fund..
 
if you are self employed I believe you are supposed to do the same thing, however it's
not regulated...in the sense that nobody dobs themselves in for not paying
what they are legally obliged to...so self employed people
can effectively pay what they like into super.
 
Also, I am surprised that you've done a lot better in your bank account compared to the super
- are you in an industry fund?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote saintly96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2015 at 3:14pm
Originally posted by Ecair Issoire Ecair Issoire wrote:

i ask because an employer has to pay the SG (super guarantee)
currently 9.5% of your gross income into a super fund..

 

if you are self employed I believe you are supposed to do the same thing, however it's

not regulated...in the sense that nobody dobs themselves in for not paying

what they are legally obliged to...so self employed people

can effectively pay what they like into super.

 

Also, I am surprised that you've done a lot better in your bank account compared to the super

- are you in an industry fund?


When I say it has done better, it hasn't actually got as much in it as my super fund (I have been in my fund for a long time), but the amount in my savings has grown more than quickly over the last few years (especially as it is in high interest long term deposit), compared to the super, which over the last few years (especially during the GFC), went poorly in contrast.

I like the fact that I am still contributing 4.5% to my super, and the rest (of what I would have contributed) goes straight into a separate savings account. I feel I have the best of both worlds.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ecair Issoire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2015 at 3:15pm
so your employer is not allowed to pay your super into your bank account..
(to my understanding)..unless it's part of a self managed super fund (smsf).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ecair Issoire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2015 at 3:18pm
I'm confused...when you say "i'm contributing" do you mean
over and above the SG that the employer pays for you?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote saintly96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2015 at 3:22pm
Originally posted by Ecair Issoire Ecair Issoire wrote:

so your employer is not allowed to pay your super into your bank account..
(to my understanding)..unless it's part of a self managed super fund (smsf).


I pay the 4.5% into my super fund, my employer pays 10%.

The money that would otherwise have gone straight into my super fund (which now goes into my bank), I put in a separate savings account, and have done for about 15 years.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ecair Issoire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2015 at 3:24pm
Ok, cheers Thumbs Up.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2015 at 3:35pm
Originally posted by saintly96 saintly96 wrote:

About 15 years ago the head of anaesthetics at my hospital was telling me that superannuation was a big con. He told me to get out and put the money away myself.

I halved my own contribution (down to 4.5%), and the rest I just kept putting away each fortnight in a savings account.

It is now in a high interest savings account and the balance is way more than I could have ever hoped for, and it is certainly making my super look quite thin.

I can use this money for whatever I like, and whenever I like. I don't have to wait for retirement, which was the plan. However, with my daughter starting Uni next year, I might just use some of it to buy a house close to her Uni of choice instead.


I find that puzzling, any half decent super fund is able to beat bank deposits
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote saintly96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2015 at 3:40pm
Originally posted by Whale Whale wrote:


Originally posted by saintly96 saintly96 wrote:

About 15 years ago the head of anaesthetics at my hospital was telling me that superannuation was a big con. He told me to get out and put the money away myself.

I halved my own contribution (down to 4.5%), and the rest I just kept putting away each fortnight in a savings account.

It is now in a high interest savings account and the balance is way more than I could have ever hoped for, and it is certainly making my super look quite thin.

I can use this money for whatever I like, and whenever I like. I don't have to wait for retirement, which was the plan. However, with my daughter starting Uni next year, I might just use some of it to buy a house close to her Uni of choice instead.


I find that puzzling, any half decent super fund is able to beat bank deposits


In the last few years, my savings, has climbed quicker than the amount in my super fund.

I have been in the super fund for many many years, so the balance in there is much higher, but it certainly hasn't grown as quickly in the last 5 or so years as the high interest savings account.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2015 at 3:45pm
what is high interest these days 3.5% Ouch

good for mortgagees bad for people who rely on their savings

the direct investment proportion of my super fund has made me 9.5% in just over 6 months
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExceedAndExcel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2015 at 3:47pm
Are you paying tax on the savings account? Must remember the 3.5% they offer is pre-tax. Super returns are post-tax.
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