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Studbook -Now Owned by Racing Australia

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Sir Gov View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sir Gov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Studbook -Now Owned by Racing Australia
    Posted: 08 Jun 2016 at 6:50pm
From the news article: 'The securing of the Stud Book was seen by many as a power grab by Racing Australia, which finds itself engaged in battles with breeders and also little people wielding whips.'

Is the studbook ripe for disruption?

Whilst it is a registration tool - its main benefit is that of capturing breeding data. Would not be that challenging for new technology to replicate what is already there.


Edited by Gay3 - 25 Sep 2016 at 12:20pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2016 at 7:04pm
Its no real difference to when it was owned jointly by the AJC and The VRC. 

Somebody just posed a poll on twitter, should it be owned by Racing Australia or The Breeders ?

My question - 

Who are "The Breeders" as a single entity ?

Its like saying punters should be represented on Racing boards.






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2016 at 7:14pm
..er, for people who know absolutely squat that would be Thoroughbred Breeders Australia.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2016 at 7:27pm
Originally posted by Second Chance Second Chance wrote:

..er, for people who know absolutely squat that would be Thoroughbred Breeders Australia.

kiss of you condescending son/daughter of a bitch. That is no more than a Union movement.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2016 at 8:23am
Actually Djebel the Bloodhorse Breeders Association was responsible for Australia getting black type for our races.  I know I worked for them back them and ran the office while John Brady was overseas with all his data collected over years of hard work. 

 Back in the day we collected and hand entered every race in Australia.  But the data was always up to date for the sales days out at Inglis.  The age of computor saw an end to that part of the work and it was over thirty years ago when I worked for them but they are much more than a Union movement.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2016 at 12:14pm

  

 

 

THOROUGHBRED BREEDERS AUSTRALIA (TBA)


Thoroughbred Breeders Australia TBA is the parent company of the six State breeders’ associations and has an associate membership base of 3,780 individual breeders and industry participants. TBA is a non-profit industry body established for the benefit of the Thoroughbred breeding industry. TBA is comprised of a Board of 14 directors constituted by two representative members from each of the 6 state breeders’ associations and Aushorse Ltd. 

TBA is recognized by the Australian Government, the Australian Racing Board, the Australian Horse Industry Council, the Australian Stud Book, Austrade and by all state Principal Racing Authorities as the peak industry body. TBA represents the Australian Thoroughbred breeding industry at the International Breeders Meeting and the Asian Racing Conference.

TBA takes a leadership role on issues of national and international importance such as quarantine, biosecurity, animal welfare, taxation, immigration and other government and regulatory issues. It represents the interests of breeders in dealing with the Stud Book, The Australian Racing Board and race clubs in addition to other stakeholder organizations.

In 2007 TBA established a subsidiary company, Aushorse Marketing Pty Ltd to specialise in marketing and promoting the Australian Thoroughbred industry both domestically and overseas.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote Daraabah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2016 at 4:20pm
Registered thoroughbred BREEDERS should 'control' the Stud Book. RACING Australia should 'control' RACE tracks, RACE rules, RACE horses and RACE participants. Clear distinction IMHO.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote troppo75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2016 at 9:25pm
Totally agree Daraabah.. I sold my last mare a few weeks back & I think to myself.. would I want to return to it when the industry is controlled by racing. The two are seperate entities for a reason. The breeding industry doesn't step in and say.. jockeys / trainers should do 'this, this and this'..

To try to make sweeping changes under the guise of it being for the wellbeing of the horses pretty much is slanderous to whoever is controlling the Studbook / breeding industry.

Having power struggles in the industry certainly puts you off the whole scene, or... speaking for myself
Now having passed 1000 posts I feel you are all so much the wiser for my having said... stuff!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sir Gov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2016 at 9:39pm
It is utterly ridiculous for the racing body to control the primary producer 'body',

No chance it will stand up in court.

The current Studbook could be abandoned by the breeders in favour of a new 'studbook'.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2016 at 10:07pm
LOL


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2016 at 7:23am

Dear Breeder,

 

On Friday the board of Racing Australia will discuss a proposal relating to the breeding industry, which is causing considerable angst and confusion.

 

While there may be some involved in racing who will be perplexed at this level of concern, there are many breeders furious that Racing Australia would seek to pursue a policy that gives them unchecked power over breeding. The decision to pursue such a divisive policy at a time when both the number of breeders (down 38 per cent from 2010 to 2015) and foals being born (down 24 per cent) has dropped significantly in the past five years will also confuse many in the thoroughbred world.

 

 

The Proposal

 

To understand Thoroughbred Breeders Australia's (TBA) position it is worth first considering what Racing Australia are proposing:

 

Under their suggested new policy breeders would have to agree to be bound by the Rules of Racing when registering 'mare returns', the forms which are submitted to the Australian Stud Book (ASB) after a thoroughbred foal is born.

 

This is a significant shift from the current process whereby the rules of racing only cover the owners of a thoroughbred when it is registered as a racehorse.

 

For those who are not familiar with the ASB, it is best described as the Births, Death and Marriages of the thoroughbred world; a database in which all Australian thoroughbreds are recorded in order to be registered to race or for their progeny to race in the future. It has provided the regulatory framework for the breeding industry for more than a century.

 

Racing Australia is also proposing that the full ownership interests in each foal are submitted to the Stud Book at this early stage, a recommendation that would increase transparency and a proposal that has been fully supported by the breeding industry since it was first mooted more than 12 months ago.

 

 

Why the concern about the Rules of Racing?

 

Firstly, if adopted this measure would give organisations established for running racing - Racing Australia as well as the 'Principal Racing Authorities', such as Racing Victoria and Racing NSW - complete control over breeding, what is essentially a primary industry.  

 

Any new regulation that would affect breeding would simply be added to the Rules of Racing by administrators and every owner of a broodmare, foal or stallion would be forced to comply or face the possibility of not being able to register their horses with the Stud Book.

 

Given there is no meaningful representation being offered for breeders on the bodies that would decide what new rules are created or implemented this situation is unacceptable to the vast majority of breeders.

 

It's worth remembering that organisations such as Racing NSW or Racing Queensland have been established, and their directors appointed, with regard to the task of running racing, not breeding. While there may be some breeders on these boards now, there is no guarantee this will be the case in future and, what's more, these people are required by their duty as a director to act in the best interests of their racing board and this may not be aligned with the interests of the breeding industry.

 

Requests that breeders be given meaningful representation in discussions around any further rules - TBA suggested a panel of three highly regarded breeders, two to be chosen by Racing Australia, be formed to review all future rules relating to breeding - have been emphatically rejected.

 

Those that may believe breeding is some minor adjunct to racing should understand it is a significant industry in its own right: there are more than 10,000 people directly employed (and many more indirectly) in an industry which generates billions of dollars of economic activity each year; from expenditure on feed, fencing, stallion nominations, not to mention the sums that horses are sold for.

 

Consider if this was another primary industry facing an attempt to regulate it by a user down the supply chain; for example if Coles or Woolworths said they wanted to regulate dairy farmers because most milk in Australia is sold through their stores. What would the reaction of those farmers be?

 

Breeding is an important industry that requires a voice in its future, not a proposal to see it governed by an unaccountable group of racing administrators. This lack of representation could easily lead to the introduction of rules that are damaging to the breeding industry.   

 

 

Animal Welfare and Integrity

 

One of the most disappointing aspects of this debate is the suggestion, put forward by some directors of Racing Australia, that if you don't support their proposal you are against animal welfare or transparency.

 

Such a crass attempt to take the moral high ground is depressing in the extreme.

 

Nobody cares more about the welfare and conduct of thoroughbreds than breeders across Australia. Every breeder has a deep love of the animal; those who breed to sell rely on the health and reputation of their horses and farms to succeed commercially while those who breed to race or to simply enjoy a thoroughbred on their property do so for the love of the animal and invest many thousands of dollars before even getting a foal on the ground.

As for tougher regulation, TBA submitted to Racing Australia a proposal for new rules in the areas of animal welfare, transparency and integrity (all areas flagged as motivations for Racing Australia's changes). The TBA suggestions would have ensured there is oversight for thoroughbreds before they enter racing and during their lifespan in the breeding industry.

We stated that rules relating to breeders should be in the Stud Book, the body which has regulated breeding in this country since 1878, rather than caught up in the Rules of Racing, of which there are currently 101 pages with just one mention of breeders.

We also set out possible penalties applying under the proposed rules as well as proposing the creation of an enforcement mechanism for the Stud Book and a panel to adjudicate on breaches of the rules. It is also worth noting that there are already numerous laws and agencies that deal with animal welfare across the country.

TBA's proposal would have allowed the Australian industry to state it has the strongest regulation in the world, instead Racing Australia appears determined to bind breeders to a set of rules which are totally irrelevant to our industry. Unfortunately Racing Australia has rejected TBA's proposal.

 

And what are the issues Racing Australia is trying to address? At a recent public meeting the chairman of Racing Australia, John Messara, himself a prominent breeder, and his chief executive, Peter McGauran, were asked to cite a single incident of malpractice in breeding. Neither could name one.

 

The role of Racing Australia

 

Another aspect of concern for breeders is the role of Racing Australia. In the past two years this body has morphed from the toothless tiger that was the Australian Racing Board to now owning tens of millions of dollars in assets (the Australian Stud Book and RISA, the system that trainers use to enter horses in races).

 

It also retains its primary function, to make the rules of racing. But is Racing Australia accountable to anybody?

 

If Racing NSW or Racing Victoria are doing a poor job or make a terrible decision you can visit the relevant racing minister and voice your concerns, with the possibility that this minister could use his or her powers to intervene in the organisation.

 

With Racing Australia there is nobody to provide oversight of its responsibilities; if it makes a bad rule there is no minister or official to complain to.

 

Breeders endured a taste of this 18 months ago when Racing Australia mistakenly listed a hormone as an anabolic steroid (after acting without consulting breeders). When a yearling 'failed' a steroid test at a sale due to traces of this hormone being detected, TBA urged Peter McGauran to review the rule before the findings became public.

 

His response was alarming: "It's nothing to do with me, I only make the rules," he said. Eventually the rule was amended - but not before the Australian breeding industry had suffered a huge amount of negative publicity.

 

Another area of concern is the governance structure of Racing Australia. If their proposal were to succeed a situation would exist where one of the largest commercial breeders in Australia, John Messara, chairs Racing Australia, the body which would regulate the breeding industry as well as chairing Racing NSW, which would investigate commercial rivals for any breaches of the rules and then hand out penalties. The potential for conflict of interest, or even the perception of that conflict, would unlikely be acceptable in other industries of similar size and significance to the state's economy.

This is not a personal attack on Mr Messara, a man who has worked tirelessly on behalf of racing and breeding for many years, but an observation on the situation.

 

It would not matter whether it was Mr Messara or another major commercial breeder; there is without question a perceived conflict of interest when one of the biggest players in an industry seeks to have regulatory control of that industry, without putting in an adequate framework to manage that perceived conflict.

 

There are many positions, such as judges, where people acknowledge that there could be a perceived conflict or bias and remove themselves from the situation without any suggestion that they would act inappropriately.

 

In NSW licensed people (trainers and jockeys) are barred from being board members of Racing NSW. This was done for good reason; how could a trainer be chair of a body that had the power to investigate and punish any rule breaches by a peer? Even if a director acted completely impartially, the perception could and would exist that they acted in a manner favourable to their interests.

 

 

Where to from here?

 

What is so disappointing in this debate is that the middle ground between the two sides is considerable. We both want the same outcomes; an improved regulatory framework for thoroughbreds before they enter racing and increased transparency.

 

But breeders will not accept a proposal that does not allow their industry a meaningful say in its future. Whether this issue ends in the Supreme Court remains in the hands of Racing Australia.

 

For more information please contact TBA chief executive Tom Reilly at tom@tbaus.com.

 

Kindest regards,

 

Basil Nolan

 

President

Thoroughbred Breeders Australia

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Daraabah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2016 at 7:48am
If horse WELFARE was really such a 'concern' for Racing Australia in driving this proposal, one would think their primary target would be retired racehorses, NOT the breeding industry...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sir Gov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2016 at 8:26am
Originally posted by Daraabah Daraabah wrote:

If horse WELFARE was really such a 'concern' for Racing Australia in driving this proposal, one would think their primary target would be retired racehorses, NOT the breeding industry...

Totally correct.

We need to improve (& have improved) our industry - but it will not be at the hands of the 'racing' bodies.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maxamill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2016 at 12:15pm
Racing aust are a bunch of fwits and they will unfortunately stamp it with there current hair brain system and processes of which we have all unfortunately seen I'm action or at least lack off
For mine the stub book was managed well in the past and very good to deal with

May be about money and a bit more power
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndiCap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2016 at 12:30pm
Don't forget to try your International Tipping skills in the ROYAL ASCOT Comp folks-

Cash odds are currently 310/20 Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote early4lunch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2016 at 6:18pm
One of my greatest concerns re horse racing is the declining number of breeders and foals born . There has been little or nothing done, particularly for small breeders who seem to be the ones falling off. The cost of ASB compliance is a big factor in making breeding at the bottom end unviable but TBA only seems to be acting for the big end of town . The very big end . I will support either side here if they reduce / eliminate fees and make the production of racing stock ,already at alarming numbers less burdensome . The low end of the breeding industry has given the game the horses that make the game interesting . Apache Cat , Vo Rogue , Gunsynd,Takeover Target etc. became crowd favorites in part because of their humble origins . We don't see similar affection for Coolmore or Godolphin rachorses . The future or racing depends on public interest and ''public'' horses . One other concerning aspect of the declining foal numbers is that it must lead to either less racing or smaller fields both of which will lead to less turnover thus less prizemoney for participants . Racing needs more breeding and whichever side will assist can have my support . TBA , as the incumbent has had years and done little.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bradjm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2016 at 6:34pm
mare return fees for mares not served are a joke
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote goldey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2016 at 7:57am
Totally agree  Brad , I have twice paid this fee ,a 30 second entry into a computer and bang there goes your money , I hope they pay there staff well .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2016 at 5:13pm
Been MIA all day Evil Smile
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Sir Gov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2016 at 5:55pm
Lets Crowdfund & get this back rightfully where it should be.

With the BREEDERS.

If Racing Aus paid $18m & the foal numbers are in run off, you could come up with a reasonable value to take it off their hands.

I will even volunteer my time for the cause

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2016 at 8:30am
too many breeders trying to register foals?  Reminds me of the night of the censis.  I didn't have trouble with the stud book yesterday gay.  Maybe too much local internet traffic.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2016 at 10:51am
Still down Angry
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dizzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2016 at 10:54am
I can get in fine Gay... Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2016 at 11:12am
Sharon Lawrence ok, they rang me again, IT this time in Melbourne, very nice i must say. :-) but we still cant work out why its working for some and not others but they are working on it
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Campaspe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2016 at 11:47am
Just had a look, worked fine for me.
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I've been getting in fine today....
Lost in the magical world of racing. Storm Siren & Speed Hero.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2016 at 5:55pm
Originally posted by Gay3 Gay3 wrote:

Sharon Lawrence ok, they rang me again, IT this time in Melbourne, very nice i must say. :-) but we still cant work out why its working for some and not others but they are working on it


Still down for me, any other Vics? Angry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2016 at 6:44pm
OK I can't get on now.  What do you need to do Gay.  If looking for unnamed horses and know the dam you can check on - www.risaform.com.au/Pedigree/HorsePedigreeSearch.aspx

If you type in the dam on the second line and hit search all foals come up.  Not as clear cut as Stud Book but does work at the moment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dizzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2016 at 8:04am
Black Caviar (AUS) 2006
 Life Number: AUS00929296brown mareDate of Birth: 18/08/2006 
 Microchip Number: 985100010902397DNA Typed: Y 
 by Bel Esprit (AUS) 1999Contact: Mr NJR Werrett, NSW 
 from Helsinge (AUS) 2001 
 bred by Mr R Jamieson, Vic 
Australian Breeding Record
  Printable Version
SeasonDOBColourSexName or Last
Service Date
SireComment
201616/10/2015Snitzel (AUS) PENDING OWNERSHIP DECLARATION
201523/09bcolt 13/10/2014Sebring (AUS) parentage verified
201412/09bfillyOscietraExceed And Excel (AUS)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dizzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2016 at 8:05am
"PENDING OWNERSHIP" of what? BC, the foal? The stallion? I have never come across this before in the Studbook, I have seen in racing though.
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