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Stratum Star

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Aurelius View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aurelius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2017 at 6:23pm
Originally posted by Second Chance Second Chance wrote:

Current stallions in Stallions 2016.Looked at all those who've been a stud long enough to establish their credentials.

The following sires raced for three more seasons and/or raced on quite a few occasions, and have proven successful at stud:

Artie Schiller, Choisir, Equiano, I Am Invincible, Lonhro, Love Conquers All, Medaglia D'Oro, Show A Heart, So You Think, Starcraft, Star Spangled Banner, Testa Rossa.



Artie Schiller 22 starts.
Choisor        23 start.
I am Invincible 13 starts.

Not like you to miss the point SC only checked 3

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Second Chance View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2017 at 6:41pm
Please re-read my post, ie raced for 3 seasons or more and/or relatively often.

Artie Schiller raced 22 times over 4 seasons.
Choisir raced 23 times over 3 seasons - now that's an ask.
I Am Invincible might have only raced 13 times, but did so over 4 seasons. 

But keep going through the list if you feel it'll serve a purpose.  Wink
   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MichaelM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2017 at 6:54pm
Originally posted by Aurelius Aurelius wrote:

Originally posted by MichaelM MichaelM wrote:

Originally posted by Aurelius Aurelius wrote:

Originally posted by MichaelM MichaelM wrote:

Originally posted by slowdown slowdown wrote:

you have put a lot of work into this. I wonder what the percentage is overall taking into account the entire entries to the book. too much work I know but it would be interesting....



They are quoting research conducted by Phil Purser. Enough said!


Even worse the data comes from Stallion Book!

All hail George Michael he really knows his stuff!



You're a peculiar one. All I asked was if you truly believed a stallion's genetics were influenced by if they had a hard racing career or not?

I assume you referring to me as George Michael is an attempt at name calling?


Give it a break Djebel if only you put as much effort into a subject as you do trawling.

Pay attention there have been some useful points made.


You've made plenty of points I will give you that. None whatsoever address my question about hard racing careers affecting ones genetics and their ability to pass these on. You do get butthurt quite easily though I'll give you that.
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Aurelius View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aurelius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2017 at 7:08pm
Your question has been answered.
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MichaelM View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote MichaelM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2017 at 7:20pm
Originally posted by Aurelius Aurelius wrote:

Your question has been answered.


No it hasn't, all you did was list stallions who had had 25 starts or more at stud and what their stats were. Not even close to answering the question. Now list all the stallions who have had less than 25 starts or less and failed at stud are and we'll be here for weeks. The best points have been made by those not including you.
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Aurelius View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aurelius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2017 at 9:28pm
No matter how obtuse you want to be Michael nothing will change the facts.

Sure come up with different criteria however at the moment I am assessing a stallion that has had 37 starts and I have always said through the thread he may succeed however 'the odds are against'.

Keep chasing your tale buddy.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cityboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2017 at 10:38pm
Aurealis - thanks for providing your statistics which I didn't think you'd have. They are interesting but I think inconclusive for the reason noted by some of the others above (ie: what are the "success stats" for the stallions who had less than 25 starts?). I doubt they'd be much different to 3.5% success rate you've calculated for the stallions that have had more than 25 starts?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slowdown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2017 at 10:52pm
Wont have to worry soon with the trend to retire them early. I just went through the entire 2015 stallions book. don't reckon there was 15 who had run more than 25 and a number who had are lesser known stallions who have been in the book a while without any real success meaning that they were little know and had very little chance of getting decent mares.
Star - racing,Rebel - racing in 2 months, Attie - spelling, Lionel - first prep-still holding up, Brandy - commencing first prep.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sir Gov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2017 at 11:23pm
Originally posted by slowdown slowdown wrote:

Wont have to worry soon with the trend to retire them early. I just went through the entire 2015 stallions book. don't reckon there was 15 who had run more than 25 and a number who had are lesser known stallions who have been in the book a while without any real success meaning that they were little know and had very little chance of getting decent mares.

Have a 2YO colt trialling in a few weeks.  

If successful, may just retire him off the trial & ship him off to stud.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slowdown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2017 at 11:31pm
starting fee $55,000?
Star - racing,Rebel - racing in 2 months, Attie - spelling, Lionel - first prep-still holding up, Brandy - commencing first prep.
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Aurelius View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aurelius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2017 at 9:42am
Originally posted by Sir Gov Sir Gov wrote:

Originally posted by slowdown slowdown wrote:


Wont have to worry soon with the trend to retire them early. I just went through the entire 2015 stallions book. don't reckon there was 15 who had run more than 25 and a number who had are lesser known stallions who have been in the book a while without any real success meaning that they were little know and had very little chance of getting decent mares.


Have a 2YO colt trialling in a few weeks.  

If successful, may just retire him off the trial & ship him off to stud.


By whom out of whom Gov?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sir Gov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2017 at 9:54am
Originally posted by Aurelius Aurelius wrote:

Originally posted by Sir Gov Sir Gov wrote:

Originally posted by slowdown slowdown wrote:


Wont have to worry soon with the trend to retire them early. I just went through the entire 2015 stallions book. don't reckon there was 15 who had run more than 25 and a number who had are lesser known stallions who have been in the book a while without any real success meaning that they were little know and had very little chance of getting decent mares.


Have a 2YO colt trialling in a few weeks.  

If successful, may just retire him off the trial & ship him off to stud.


By whom out of whom Gov?

GOLDEN DEAL with Kris Lees.

Dam won 3 from 4 as a 2YO (2 in town) & then had issues.

Particularly apt topic - I bought him as dam was very good & he is by a massively underrated sire (RIP)  - California Dane.  

70% Winnners to Runners
5% Stakeswinners to Runners

Ran a top 15% of times in the breeze ups & xrays etc. all good. No syndicators on him as he is not 'fashionably' bred.  

Showing a lot to date!
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Aurelius View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aurelius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2017 at 10:11am
Nice!

Hope he is another winner for your stud. Even though a little ways back I like Vain and the bottom of his pedigree and Final Card closer up.

Should have some early tow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sir Gov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2017 at 10:28am
Originally posted by Aurelius Aurelius wrote:

Nice!

Hope he is another winner for your stud. Even though a little ways back I like Vain and the bottom of his pedigree and Final Card closer up.

Should have some early tow.

He has a lot of speed.  

And he is still a colt so that makes him a stallion prospect (ha ha).  He has also had less than 25 starts ;) 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Julie Bee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2017 at 11:59pm
Good luck with him Sir Gov!
It is the unfashionable ones that end up being the surprise packages.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Julie Bee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2017 at 12:06am
But going back to the topic, I tend to be believe that Stratum Star could do well at stud.
And until his foals are on the ground and going through the ring he will be just like every other hopeful stallion starting out in 2017.
I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slowdown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2017 at 11:04pm
Originally posted by Aurelius Aurelius wrote:

Pretty simple formula for a successful Stallion.

60% or better Winners to Runners
5% Stakes Winners to runners.

Which I think is quite fair.
Aurelius I am very interested in statistics when it comes to breeding and racing. I decided to go over the 2012 stallions book. 232 entered with 35 of those racing 25 or more races. of those 35 without looking too hard blevic, testa rossa and lonhro all passed the test. this then making it 8.5 % of the runners with 25 runs or more. not sure if I have missed something as I have been up since 3 am but it appears that those statistics can vary significantly. Cheers Slowdown
Star - racing,Rebel - racing in 2 months, Attie - spelling, Lionel - first prep-still holding up, Brandy - commencing first prep.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 2018 at 3:50pm
A year or more down the track, what do people think of this bloke? I am looking at him for the upcoming season. Seemed to get a reasonable book of 116 mares, sound, durable and appeals to those that like colonial families. My mare needs some scope and leg from her suitors.

My nagging doubts are whether he lacked the brilliance to make a stallion and whether his pedigree is a little light. I am wondering where he is placed commercially - clearly he is at the right stud to attract support in the sale-ring.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 2018 at 4:32pm
Hi Robbo I don't think the pedigree is light on.  His two year old form was - he definately got better with age.  His sire was the winner of the Golden Slipper and Champion First season sire with a Golden Slipper winner and perhaps afterwards overlooked because Sebring a much better performed (and not from the Danehill sireline) Golden Slipper winner turned up at the same stud.

His grandsire Pins was an excellent sire from the Lunchtime sireline from a fine classic female line.  Next dam is a daughter of O'Reilly who also was a brilliant racehorse and sire.  While his 4th dam is the mighty Emancipation.

I can't say he will make a sire but the pedigree offers Redoute's, Luskin Star, Vain, Canny Lad, Bletchingly, Biscay, Pins, Snippets, Kaoru Star, O'Reilly, Courtza, Emancipation etc who were all Australasian bred Champions in one or more fields.

And while he wasn't a winner as a two year old he must of been showing promise and three of the starts where in a G1, G2 and G3 race.  That he grow into that promise and the fact there is so much speed in his pedigree suggest he should get sprinters.  If they are early comers might depend on the female lines used.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 2018 at 4:34pm
Likewise there is enough stamina there to suggest he could also sire classic/miler types.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 2018 at 4:35pm
Don't know whether he'll make it or not Robbo, however the photos of him suggest he certainly doesn't lack scope or leg.

As for the light pedigree there's a cross of Lunchtime and four crosses of Star Kingdom through Kaoru Star and Bletchingly. Throw in those two Kiwi stalwarts Pins and O'Reilly and there's plenty of male strength there.

You'd have to think he'd struggle just a bit commercially early on however Widden helps at the buying bench.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 2018 at 4:40pm
You could add that Spirit of Boom who has come out with a boom had over 50 starts also.  So many colts train off and loose value so they just don't keep them going.  You couldn't find a more honest horse than Lonhro and he has performed admirable.  With Pierro firing it looks like he has kept the Sir Tristram sireline going.  While Spirit of Boom has a far less favourable pedigree to Stratum Star it's good he's come to the fore.  We need to stop the good horses disappearing as three year olds.  Could of seen Merchant Navy again like we are seeing Trapeze Artist (thanks to the Everest).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 2018 at 4:42pm
We now have to hope that he comes out and keeps his form or the studs will back off and never try again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 2018 at 4:43pm
Whoops, hadn't seen your first post when I posted mine Furious.  Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2018 at 3:23pm
Thanks guys - really interesting food for thought. The depth of colonial influence really attracts me to his page. The analogy with Spirit of Boom is interesting and I went back and watched Stratum Star's Blue Diamond Preview run, which actually had some merit.

Lots to think about.
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