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Stephen Paddock

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djebel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2017 at 2:56pm
Originally posted by ThreeBears ThreeBears wrote:

What a worthless thread. I saw a news item today where the FBI and family members of previous gun crime victims have had a campaign going for a while that has great merit IMO. The basics are that the perpetrators of these acts should get no publicity whatsoever and nobody should speak their name.
 
The only names that should be mentioned are the heroes and victims. The theory is that the more publicity, discussion about and naming of the perpetrator only serves to give them greater notoriety and exposure to the next potential gunman. It's seems obvious to me that the current media approach only feeds the minds of and inspires the mentally unstable.

I do not think it is a dumb idea, but I do think it is impossible to implement. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2017 at 2:57pm
Originally posted by max manewer max manewer wrote:

Originally posted by ThreeBears ThreeBears wrote:


Subsequent events suggest that these exposes do nothing to prevent more similar crimes happening. ]

You seriously think they will desist because their name won't be published ? Maybe it will encourage them, if they think their act, with anonymity, won't bring shame on family etc.

This theory has been around for a number of years, and there was a guy on The Drum last night pushing this line I saw on twitter. Didn't see him though. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2017 at 3:00pm
I try to put myself in the killers head.

It seems a waste to a certain extent to commit such a crime and not hang around to see the result and response. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cabosanlucas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2017 at 3:03pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by ThreeBears ThreeBears wrote:


What a worthless thread. I saw a news item today where the FBI and family members of previous gun crime victims have had a campaign going for a while that has great merit IMO. The basics are that the perpetrators of these acts should get no publicity whatsoever and nobody should speak their name.
 
The only names that should be mentioned are the heroes and victims. The theory is that the more publicity, discussion about and naming of the perpetrator only serves to give them greater notoriety and exposure to the next potential gunman. It's seems obvious to me that the current media approach only feeds the minds of and inspires the mentally unstable.


I do not think it is a dumb idea, but I do think it is impossible to implement. 


Same. media always reply with "but its our job to report the news..."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2017 at 3:04pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

I try to put myself in the killers head.

It seems a waste to a certain extent to commit such a crime and not hang around to see the result and response. 


That's where Muslim lunatics have an advantage on the average crazy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max manewer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2017 at 3:09pm
You'd have to turn it into a "state secret". Would the wife be prevented from knowing, or telling the family where their missing father got to ? They would be filing missing persons reports, and never know if he was the "secret" madman, or not. Dumb-arse idea of the year!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2017 at 3:11pm
Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

I try to put myself in the killers head.

It seems a waste to a certain extent to commit such a crime and not hang around to see the result and response. 


That's where Muslim lunatics have an advantage on the average crazy.

LOL


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2017 at 4:43pm
Thoughtless Political decisions based on cost alone.   They are aware the decisions will import crime to the chosen areas of these "youth Community Houses ".   Fully aware it will cost lives.
    But the savings of Hundreds of millions is weighed up as more important.
   No community housing will be in areas where Politicians live.
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Las Vegas shooter Stephen Paddock, Islamic State and the mystery of motive

Nino Bucci

Published: October 6 2017 - 3:21PM

Not long after the final blast from the muzzle of Stephen Paddock's rifle cut through the Las Vegas night, the search for his motive began.

Five days later, authorities are still searching.

Paddock killed 58 people and injured almost 500 more, then killed himself. But he seems to have been, as his brother described him, "just a guy".

Instead of filling a void, the search has simply shown how deep the hole is. And the deeper the hole, the louder the echo.

This is good news for Islamic State, who claimed without evidence in the hours after the attack that Paddock was a "soldier of the caliphate".

If, only a few hours later, police had found a manifesto by Paddock raging against casinos or Vegas or country music, and it had nothing to do with Islam, the IS propaganda machine would have taken a significant hit.

But there is no manifesto. There's nothing that shows Paddock was motivated by Islamic State; but nothing that shows he wasn't, either.

There is no evidence, in fact, that the slaughter was motivated by anything at all.

Paddock was a professional gambler who lived in a housing complex for those aged over 55. But, according to IS boasts in the hours after the attack, he converted to Islam "a few months ago" and was bestowed the Arabic name Abu Abd El Bar.

In the following days, IS clarified further: Paddock converted six months ago, and was known as Abu Abdul Barr al-Amriki, they claimed.

There has been no clarifying evidence provided from the terror group, Paddock's family or friends, or authorities, including the FBI and CIA.

"He has no political affiliation, no religious affiliation, as far as we know," brother Eric Paddock said. "This wasn't a terror attack." 

Paddock's partner, Marilou Danley, was in her native Philippines at the time of the attack.

By the time she travelled back to the US, she was seen as the key to the case: if the answers had not been found in the hours immediately afterwards, the truth must lie with her, was the logic. Eric Paddock had described her as the closest person to his brother.

But she did not know why either.

"He never said anything to me or took any action that I was aware of, that I understood in any way to be a warning that something horrible like this was going to happen," she said.

FBI special agent Aaron Rouse confirmed the day after the attack that the bureau had "determined to this point no connection of an international terrorist group".

But there were others in authority who were less definitive.

"This person may have been radicalised, unbeknownst to us, and we want to identify that source," Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department Sheriff Joe Lombardo said in the hours after the attack.

He bordered on speculative in the following days, when he said he was not convinced Paddock had acted alone, and questioned whether he had deliberately concealed the motive.

There was a note in Paddock's hotel room, he added. But it was not a suicide note, and it seemed not to have illuminated or explained anything about a motive.

"What we know is, Stephen Paddock is a man who spent decades acquiring ammunition and weapons and living a secret life, much of which will we'll never fully understand," Lombardo said.

All this means it may never be known why Paddock committed the worst mass shooting in recent US history.

So why would IS, the biggest brand name in global terror, claim him as one of their own?

Under "normal" circumstances, the terror group claims an attack if they helped actively plan it; if they sent the offender; or if the offender drew inspiration from IS.

At 64, Paddock would have been the oldest IS recruit from the US by nine years, according to George Washington University research.

He had no known online profile or social media accounts, meaning there is no evidence that he had gravitated towards radicalism.

Nothing was found on his electronic devices that indicated he had self-radicalised or was in communication with IS.

He was, therefore, not in obvious contact with IS, nor a sympathiser, and did not fit the demographic profile of a radical.

Which leaves the circumstances of the attack.

If anything, recent IS messaging has emphasised the ease of mounting unsophisticated strikes using trucks or vans, and knives rather than guns.

Paddock's attack certainly did not lack sophistication: hidden cameras to monitor movement outside his room, evidence he had scoped other locations, and then the troubling potency of his arsenal: 47 guns, 33 that he bought in the past year, bump stocks which allowed some of them to fire automatically, 1600 rounds of ammunition and 22 kilograms of ammonium nitrate.

It was an armoury any terrorist group would be proud of. But Paddock seemingly bought all of it legally, with his own money.

All of this appears to add weight to the suggestion that IS claims about the Las Vegas massacre are false; the third recent occasion of the terror group incorrectly taking credit for an attack.

Last month, it claimed responsibility for a bomb plot at Charles de Gaulle airport in Paris, and in June it said that a man who killed 36 people at a Manila casino was one of their "fighters".

Both statements were released by its Amaq news agency, which also hailed Paddock this week. Both were found to be false within days. The Manila attacker was a problem gambler, and the airport evacuation was not caused by a bomb threat.

But while IS has a shaky recent track record, it is a misconception that the group has a record of incorrectly claiming attacks. (An article published in the UK this week entitled "Isis just claimed responsibility for Theresa May's cough" sums up the sentiment.)

Rukmini Callimachi, who covers IS for the New York Times, tweeted that in her rough analysis of more than 50 cases the group had claimed, only three were false.

There were also attacks which they could have claimed – because IS flags were found at the scene, or because of the background of the offenders – but did not.

The main thrust of her argument was that the group is right more often than wrong.

She also dismissed the suggestion that claiming credit for the attack was a sign the group was struggling for legitimacy as coalition forces take hold of its territory in the Middle-East.

Experts have argued that the IS propaganda machine is no longer slick and disciplined, and is over reaching to claim violence against "crusaders".

"It seems like they're desperate for attention and will claim just about everything," Rand Corporation terrorism expert Colin Clarke told CNBC. "They've lost so much territory, and they fear they're becoming irrelevant."

But other experts believe the IS propaganda machine is stronger than ever.

In a study published in the Australian Journal of International Affairs before the Las Vegas attack, Macquarie University counter-terrorism expert Dr Julian Droogan writes that IS had found new ways to communicate, despite being pushed from Facebook, Twitter and YouTube, especially through their Rumiyah magazine, which is translated into several languages.

"The Islamic state-building prospect is going to fail but when it does it will not be the end of the ideas," he said.

Regardless of whether there was IS involvement, was the Las Vegas shooting terrorism? Some angry commentary in the aftermath of the shooting claims that Paddock was a terrorist because he caused terror, and the only reason he was not being accused of that crime was because he was white, and not Muslim.

Under Nevada law, in fact, his mass shooting would be considered an act of terrorism. The State Statute defines terrorism as anything that involves the use of violence to cause death to the general population.

Under American Federal law, another element is required – political motivation. Terrorism is defined as using "violence against persons...to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives".

The question of criminal liability is, of course, a moot point: Paddock is dead, so will not be charged, regardless of where his crimes were committed.

Which leaves the simmering political argument about whether acts of mass violence committed domestically in the US – typically by white men with opaque motivations – should be considered terrorism. And if so, what is their defining "political or social objective".

As White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders offered, when asked if the Las Vegas shooting was an act of domestic terrorism: "It would be premature to weigh in on something like that before we have any more facts".



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max manewer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2017 at 5:37pm
Far more important to be figuring out the motive, than curtailing military type weapons in civilian hands, of course !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Redemption Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2017 at 12:24pm
His girlfriend, after being wired the $100,000, feared that he was breaking up with her.
Just based on that statement alone, she is totally innocent.
That statement is a very natural one, and anyone in that same position would think the same thing.
She knew nothing at all about his plans.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Redemption Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2017 at 12:31pm
Does anyone know the statistics of the fatalities of how many were killed by being shot in the head/neck, or below the shoulders?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max manewer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2017 at 2:25pm
Originally posted by Redemption Redemption wrote:

Does anyone know the statistics of the fatalities of how many were killed by being shot in the head/neck, or below the shoulders?

Why do you want to know that ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Einstein Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2017 at 6:26pm
Originally posted by max manewer max manewer wrote:

Originally posted by Redemption Redemption wrote:

Does anyone know the statistics of the fatalities of how many were killed by being shot in the head/neck, or below the shoulders?

Why do you want to know that ?
It may indicate wether there is any truth there were shooters on the ground. I am guessing all the angles of the wounds will be documented etc to see how/what they were wounded from.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote cabosanlucas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2017 at 6:31pm
An ex CIA fella who does videos and blogs including false flags...says he wants to see the shooting victims and the whole layout of killed or injured people. Fwiw...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JudgeHolden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2017 at 6:55pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 4:53pm
Nothing much coming out to contradict a plain "nutter"   letting loose.

   He certainly prepared for his shocking crime.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cabosanlucas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 5:16pm
Originally posted by maccamax maccamax wrote:

Nothing much coming out to contradict a plain "nutter"   letting loose.

   He certainly prepared for his shocking crime.


quite the contrary i reckon macca....plenty more to come out.

hotel staff been gagged by authorities apparently. if they were out all out of clues...the never ending cctv footage would be released to atleast try and gather more info from the public. no city has the security surveilance like vegas...you couldnt pick your nose anywhere in a hotel without 5 cameras recording it. their cameras can read the dates on coins.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 5:18pm
Not that evil surveillance Shocked
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cabosanlucas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 5:59pm
Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

Not that evil surveillance Shocked


You would expect a joint that holds more money than the bank of england to have security cameras. reasonable assumption...??

let me know when the mandalay bay start hacking guests mobile phones and emails.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 6:01pm
They dont, the NSA/FBI does that
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max manewer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 6:05pm
People like Paddock emphasise that psychology is just about everything with humans. If you want to know what makes people tick, it is rarely a time bomb, but the largely unplumbed mysteries of the psyche. In this case I am not sure what coming up with a plausible back story to his act, will be much use for, especially if he was a lone wolf..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cabosanlucas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 6:17pm
Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

They dont, the NSA/FBI does that


so what was your point about security cameras in vegas casinos?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cabosanlucas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 6:21pm
Originally posted by max manewer max manewer wrote:

People like Paddock emphasise that psychology is just about everything with humans. If you want to know what makes people tick, it is rarely a time bomb, but the largely unplumbed mysteries of the psyche. In this case I am not sure what coming up with a plausible back story to his act, will be much use for, especially if he was a lone wolf..


they are probing his mental state and think he definitely took a downhill turn in more recent times, evidenced by his increased purchasing of firearms in the last year or so. as well as accounts from people who knew him. but...they dont think it accounts for the mass shooting spree he carried out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 6:29pm
Originally posted by cabosanlucas cabosanlucas wrote:

Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

They dont, the NSA/FBI does that


so what was your point about security cameras in vegas casinos?


 

That surveillance does a fantastic job of catching crooks. They will have every detail of this monster's life that can be electronically gathered and it is a great thing they do
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max manewer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 6:36pm
The main reason to investigate thoroughly, is to establish if others were involved, or had knowledge. What became of the story about the woman in the crowd who was wandering around warning of an impending massacre, seems too much of a co-incidence.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 6:39pm
They will have scoured the room to find any minutr trace of DNA of a second person. Also in his properties.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cabosanlucas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 6:53pm
Originally posted by max manewer max manewer wrote:

The main reason to investigate thoroughly, is to establish if others were involved, or had knowledge. What became of the story about the woman in the crowd who was wandering around warning of an impending massacre, seems too much of a co-incidence.


Plenty of questions to be answered.

records show he checked in 3 days before the fbi said he did.
the unarmed security guard who paddock shot in the leg when he fired off..200 bullets (200) .... no one has spoken to that security guy.
vegas police said paddock drilled the hallway exits shut.
a navy seal sniper says their were atleast two shooters based on the gunfire noise...he disputes the echo theory. (Same guy is a right wing trump pusher)

lots of other stuff ......lack of hotel footage the main one. but again....that could mean its crucial evidence in an ongoing inveso, where if they release it to the public now it might compromise the operation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 6:57pm
Pretty sure they are working to answer their questions on their own timeline, rathers than every conspiracy nutter out there looking to sell something, and they will announce what they are required to release when they are ready
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max manewer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 6:58pm
You are boarding the CT bus, Cabo ? You still think the brother is implicated ?
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