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Yearling
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    Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 10:33pm
Just saw an ad for him at stud. "Proven Group 1 Performer". Pretty sure he never went close to winning a Group 1.

Edited by Gay3 - 17 Nov 2018 at 7:51am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 10:38pm
Is a head close enough?
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Yearling
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Enabled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 10:40pm
You gotta win.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Einstein Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 10:40pm
Group 1 performer doesn't mean they WON. However, he had 4 x 3rds in G1's, that's pretty consistent performance in that level.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 10:41pm
Little bit like 'Adelaide the fastest Cox Plate winner at stud'.
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Yearling
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Enabled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 10:46pm
Fake news.


Near enough is not good enough in racing, business and life.


Let's give out a trophy for every runner. Joke.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brudder_A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 11:24pm
Clearly Grade 1 performer <> Grade 1 winner.

The word that should of been used is G1 *placegetter*.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Enabled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 11:30pm
In racing it's a big big difference between a G1 winner and a place getter.

A disgraceful ad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brudder_A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 11:54pm
Originally posted by Enabled Enabled wrote:

In racing it's a big big difference between a G1 winner and a place getter.

A disgraceful ad.


In Englysh - there's a big difference in meaning between "performer" and "winner".

Понял? Дурак бы не понял.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Enabled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2018 at 12:41am
Our breeding industry is in crisis, let's make it a big joke now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2018 at 1:03am
Originally posted by Enabled Enabled wrote:

In racing it's a big big difference between a G1 winner and a place getter.

A disgraceful ad.


The difference is what ever the margin was.


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote TJMitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2018 at 9:19am
Nothing wrong with the term 'group 1 performer'. The horse performed well at group 1 level, it's a true statement. If you are gullible enough to believe the statement means anything else that's on you as a breeder.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2018 at 9:25am
Exactly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Hogan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2018 at 9:31am
I think the word to be questioned in the statement is 'Proven'.

The only way to prove yourself is to Win.
Jim
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote linghi11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2018 at 9:36am
Personally I’m more worried about his pedigree.
to the victor
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2018 at 9:55am
Agree, very lean.  Couldn't have him at half his advertised fee.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TJMitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2018 at 10:05am
Oh wow, just had a look. I didn't realise it was that thin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote linghi11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2018 at 10:10am
His foals look nice enough, but his damside is a horror show.
to the victor
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ianb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2018 at 7:37pm
Do you consider Winning Rupert good?
current stable...Giuliani.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2018 at 8:09pm
It is a fairly good female line further back.  Go have a look at Star Kingdom's close relatives and then you see that lines do come and go.  And good ones just happen.  Trouble is the stallions the dams went to are weak and that will pull him down.  It's the female line of both Savabeel and Preferment among others but they are from a different branch.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TJMitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2018 at 8:50pm
How far back do want to go though?

1st DAM

GOLDEN DELICIOUS, by Made of Gold (USA). 13 wins - 4 at 2 - at 1000, 1200 m. and $497,290 inc. WATC Prince of Wales S. [G3], MVRC William Crockett S. , WATC Colonel Reeves S. , H.G. Bolton Sprint , H.G. Bolton Sprint , H., H., Two-Years-Old H., Welter H. 2d WATC Belmont Newmarket . 3d WATC Winterbottom S. [G2], Roma Cup [G3], Channel Nine S. , MRC Sir John Monash S. . 4th VRC Gilgai S. [G3], WATC Beaufine S. . Dam of 6 living foals, 5 raced, all winners-

STAR TURN (c. by Star Witness). 3 wins at 1100 m. and $877,300. MRC Schillaci S. [G2], ATC San Domenico S. [G3], The Simplicity Funerals Pierro Plate. 2d ATC Run to the Rose S. [G2], MRC Blue Diamond Prelude [G3]. 3d VRC Newmarket H. [G1], Lightning S. [G1], Ascot Vale S. [G1], MVRC William Reid S. [G1].

Straight Gold (g. by Stratum). 6 wins 1000 to 1100 m. and $775,326 inc. STC Lynch Flowers H., Sha Tin Singapore Turf Club Trophy, Ho Chung H. 2d Sha Tin Curwen Centenary Sprint Cup [HK-1], Bauhinia Sprint Trophy [HK-3]. 3d ATC Silver Slipper S. [G2], VRC Century S. . 4th ATC Todman Slipper Trial [G2], Sha Tin Bauhinia Sprint Trophy [HK-3].

SHUFOOG (f. by Star Witness). Won Turffontein RC Summer at the Palace At Emperors Palace Maiden Plate (1160 m.). 2d Western Province RC Need for Speed Sprint.

HILTON HEAD (f. by Fastnet Rock). Won BRC Austin Pool Services 2YO Maiden Plate (1110 m.) at 2. Dam of-

Eden Roc (g. by Star Witness). 2d ATC Australian Fire Hose Plate. 3d ATC Lonhro Plate . 4th ATC Skyline S. [G2].

JERRY'S WITNESS. 1 win at 1000 m.

Amor Fati. Placed.

PINOVA (f. by Fastnet Rock). 1 win at 1100 m. 2d ATC Gallipoli Handicap. Dam of-

QUADCOPTER. 1 win at 1200 m. in Singapore.

2nd DAM

BAROSSA GOURMET, by Pre Emptive Strike (CAN). 6 wins 900 to 1200 m. inc. Oakbank RC Nescafe Cappuccino H. 3d ATC Lonhro Plate . Dam of 8 named foals, 6 raced, 4 winners-

GOLDEN DELICIOUS (f. by Made of Gold (USA)). See above.

ROSE OF BAROSSA. 3 wins at 1100 m. at 2. Dam of 4 winners-

OUR INDIAN ROSE. 2 wins at 1406, 1500 m. inc. SAJC The Myer Centre Adelaide Maiden Plate. 2d SAJC SA Bookmakers League H., Cleanevent H., Adrian Brien Dodge H., Gold Guru Rated H. Dam of-

Pound the Alarm. 3d SAJC One Solution Mobile and Data Plate at 2.

Johnny Johnny. Placed.

Suave Cat. Started 6 times.

Jabalpur Rose. Started 6 times.

Ran Wilde. Started 7 times.

FOUNTAIN MISS. 3 wins 1250 to 1750 m.

GOLCONI. 1 win at 1000 m. Dam of-

Paartapae. Placed.

Shelley Bank. Started 4 times.

BARANNAN. 1 win at 1200 m.

Rose of Russia. Unraced.

Corrie Corry. Unraced.

Blevic Rose. Unraced.

BAROSSA CAN CAN. 1 win at 1350 m. 2d SAJC Alcohol Go-Easy H. Dam of-

DARCY'S FOLLY. Won SAJC Tattsbet Maiden Plate (1400 m.).

Mipony. Placed.

Sister Can Can. Unraced.

Fireaway. Started 3 times.

Golden Barossa. Started 7 times.

BAROSSA MUSIC. 1 win at 1000 m. Dam of-

MIO FRATELLO. 9 wins 1000 to 1600 m. and $169,545 inc. WATC Westspeed 3YO H., Ryan's Meats H., Brett Nazzari H., Connector Drilling H., ozbet.com.au rated H.

Barossa Choice. Placed.

Goldie's Delight. Unraced. Dam of 2 winners-

ROCKET QUEEN. Won WATC Westspeed 3Yo Handicap (1200 m.). 2d WATC Westspeed Handicap.

BAROSSA RED. 6 wins 1200 to 1800 m. and $58,208.

Secret Jeune. Placed.

Lila's Delight. Unraced.

Gypped. Unraced.

Barossa Delight. Unraced. Dam of-

MASKING. 4 wins 1200 to 1600 m. and $54,815.

Barossa Gold. Started 3 times. Dam of-

Tour d' Barossa. Started 3 times.

3rd DAM

MARRY ME MARIA, by My Heart (IRE). 7 wins - 2 at 2 - 1100 to 1600 m. Dam of 5 foals, all raced, 3 winners-

BAROSSA GOURMET (f. by Pre Emptive Strike (CAN)). See above.

JUST FOR MARIA. 7 wins 1000 to 1400 m. WATC Connector Drilling H. 2d VATC St. Clair H., SAJC Lord Dudley H. 3d SAJC Heritage Week Graduation S. Dam of 3 winners-

JUST FOR ADVENTURE. 11 wins 1100 to 1700 m.

JUST WHISPER GO. 2 wins at 1000, 1100 m.

SHY TALK. 1 win at 1200 m.

Simpleton. Started 8 times.

UNBOUND. 1 win at 1200 m.

Botanic. Started 7 times.

Vintage Delight. Started 9 times. Dam of-

Cash Exchange (g. by Real Cash (USA)). 5 wins 1050 to 1650 m. inc. SAJC Nakayama H. 2d SAJC Legacy Tony's Tuna International H. 3d SAJC Christmas H. [G3], Kpmg Assurance and Advisory H., Marsh H.

Next Vintage. Unraced.

4th DAM

REGAL WATERS, by Above Water (IRE). Unraced. Half-sister to Blue Nile, Royal Biscay. Dam of 3 foals, all raced, 2 winners-

MARRY ME MARIA (f. by My Heart (IRE)). See above.

PAGAN CLOUD. 1 win at 1200 m. Dam of-

CARGO CULT. 1 win at 1200 m.

Shut the Gate. Unraced. Dam of-

Midnight Romance. Started twice.

Pagan Rites. Unraced.

Queen Nile. Started 6 times.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TJMitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2018 at 8:51pm
$22,000 is laughable
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slowdown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2018 at 9:06pm
Agree TJ . sadly people are prepared to pay proven prices for unproven stallions. its bloody crazy.
Star - racing,Rebel - racing in 2 months, Attie - spelling, Lionel - first prep-still holding up, Brandy - commencing first prep.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote linghi11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2018 at 10:20pm
Originally posted by ianb ianb wrote:

Do you consider Winning Rupert good?


He’s a fail on X rays before you even get to his awful page.
to the victor
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Isaac soloman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2018 at 10:33pm
His dam was a popular horse in Western Australia, trained by a renowned trainer.

probably cant do much worse than other local bred stallions.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Einstein Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2018 at 8:32pm
Honestly, there is nothing wrong with his pedigree, the first dam is black type, has produced black type winners, with 5 runners for 5 winners.
 
Now IF his first dam had done nothing on the track, and just had him perform, and then there was no other black type till 3rd or 4th dam, then id skip.
 
He is a very nice type, and he is passing on good bone and muscle to his foals. He is advertised at 22,000, but I would say Vinery would probably deal to 16k.
 
He may not have won a group 1, but he was consistently placed, and in good tough Gp 1's unlike a few other new season stallions at stud for similar who won very mediocre and non stallion gp1s, and is shockingly put together. He is good value, and if I had a mare, I certainly send 1 to him!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2018 at 9:09pm
His pedigree is not too bad at all.  He is handsome as, and his foals look good.
Golly he is a big gullumper tho .  Wink  The others glided around, and he pounded around the parade ring. 
But as Einstein says, compared to others, and their price, he isnt the worst of those out there, and with Vinery, they do have a knack with their stallions.   But I wouldnt go for $22,000.  I would be looking to deal.  
animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Hogan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2018 at 9:13pm
Ridiculously overpriced.

His Sire is struggling himself 58% Winners to runners and is standing for 33k after years of opportunity.

Based on that they can't ask for more than around 27% his Sires fee.
Should be asking 9k dealing down to 7k.

Good bone and muscle give me a break, how long have you been working there?
Jim
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Glencoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2018 at 9:40pm
He is another Alan Bell promotion.  Alan is a proven judge, but this bloke didn't quite get there at the vey top.
Mind you he wasn't far off. Many of us would have loved to own him as a racehorse
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Einstein Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2018 at 12:01am
Originally posted by Paul Hogan Paul Hogan wrote:

Ridiculously overpriced.

His Sire is struggling himself 58% Winners to runners and is standing for 33k after years of opportunity.

Based on that they can't ask for more than around 27% his Sires fee.
Should be asking 9k dealing down to 7k.

Good bone and muscle give me a break, how long have you been working there?
Just because his sire is struggling, doesn't mean he will. Sheesh, plenty of sires out there that far surpass their own sires deeds! No, I don't work for Vinery if that is what you are asking. Do not even live in the same state.
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